[dakanao]

  HD650 will be darker, have more bass, and some more soundstage. The HD600 is Neutral, Natural, somewhat clearer in vocal (imo) and has some rolled off bass. I would say the HD650 is smoother too. They are very similar though.

Would the HD 600 still have enough mid bass to be considered neutral? And are they vocal forward as well?

 

[Argyris]

  Would these be for someone who likes upfront vocals, and a natural, clear (but not EXTREMELY clear) smooth sound, with a bit of bass punch?

 
Everything there fits, except perhaps the last one. I certainly wouldn't classify the HD 600 as bass light, but the bass is not really a feature of the sound, either. It forms a solid, integrated foundation. The HD 650 is reputed to have a bit more midbass, but also less upper midrange, which would push back vocals a bit compared to the HD 600. These are the main differences between the two.
 
Vocals are exquisite on the HD 600. There's a slight upper midrange lift here that highlights vocals and lead instruments without, IMO, making things unduly shouty and strident. It's just a few dB, so it's not some massive boost. The reason some people are sensitive to it is that it happens to occur right in the middle of the range where human hearing is most sensitive. Most people I've come across are actually more sensitive to a slightly higher frequency range (around 5-6 kHz), which is the problem area for a lot of headphones with edgy or piercing treble.

 

[ToTo Man]

 
Me too.
 
There are not good and bad HD600's.  There are only people who like and dislike them...
 

Out of interest, how many HD600 have you listened to on the same source and amp?  I have heard four pairs, including two purchased at exactly the same time.  Of the two bought at the same time, one had a nasty shouty midrange peak, so I sent them back.  Based on that sample size of two, you could say that such a significant difference in frequency response isn't encouraging with respect to quality control.  This conclusion is of course grossly unrepresentative and therefore misleading, because of the inadequately small sample size.  I haven't A/B'd anywhere near enough sets of HD600 to make a general sweeping statement about the proportion of models that might deviate to an objectionable extent from the target HD600 'signature sound'.  But likewise, I also feel that making sweeping statements such as "[size=x-small]There are not good and bad HD600's.  There are only people who like and dislike them...", without the evidence to [/size]back[size=x-small] this up, could be equally misleading.[/size]

 

[snapacap]

  Would the HD 600 still have enough mid bass to be considered neutral? And are they vocal forward as well?

The vocal is more forward on the HD600. Neutral is the name of the game for the HD600. One of its best qualities is being neutral while not sounding thin, or too flat. Personally I find that amping them better helps with concerns in this department. I also use an EQ with mine to make them a bit more bassy. Mid-bass is fine on the HD600, but there is more in the HD650 at the cost of clarity and forward vocal.
 
I will be up front here: you will be hard pressed to find more neutral headphones that are also smooth like the HD600 or HD650. Particularly the HD600 is more neutral all around.
 
It would also know what headphones you are coming from to know what bias you might be expecting to compare to.

 

[MWSVette]

 
Out of interest, how many HD600 have you listened to on the same source and amp?  I have heard four pairs, including two purchased at exactly the same time.  Of the two bought at the same time, one had a nasty shouty midrange peak, so I sent them back.  Based on that sample size of two, you could say that such a significant difference in frequency response isn't encouraging with respect to quality control.  This conclusion is of course grossly unrepresentative and therefore misleading, because of the inadequately small sample size.  I haven't A/B'd anywhere near enough sets of HD600 to make a general sweeping statement about the proportion of models that might deviate to an objectionable extent from the target HD600 'signature sound'.  But likewise, I also feel that making sweeping statements such as "[size=x-small]There are not good and bad HD600's.  There are only people who like and dislike them...", without the evidence to [/size]back[size=x-small] this up, could be equally misleading.[/size]

Show me the proof of your sweeping statement, that there is a large variance in HD600's and then we can talk.
 
Otherwise I think I shall just choose to disagree...
 

 

[dakanao]

  The vocal is more forward on the HD600. Neutral is the name of the game for the HD600. One of its best qualities is being neutral while not sounding thin, or too flat. Personally I find that amping them better helps with concerns in this department. I also use an EQ with mine to make them a bit more bassy. Mid-bass is fine on the HD600, but there is more in the HD650 at the cost of clarity and forward vocal.
 
I will be up front here: you will be hard pressed to find more neutral headphones that are also smooth like the HD600 or HD650. Particularly the HD600 is more neutral all around.
 
It would also know what headphones you are coming from to know what bias you might be expecting to compare to.

Hmm alright. I'm coming from the Hifiman HE-400i.
 
I have the highs eq'ed down by like 4 - 5 dB, otherwise they're too harsh. But the problem I'm having right now with them, is recessed vocals on some songs. That's it.
 
And even with those highs EQ'ed down, they still occasionaly get a bit harsh, but not to the point that's it's problematic.
 
The recessed vocals on some songs are problematic though.
 
I don't know how much bass (mid bass most important) the HD 600 has relative to the HE-400i though.

 

[BigDaddyNC]

What are you powering the 600s with? You said "Cracking" was that a description or do you run a Crack amp?....

 



Nah, LugBug1 is from the UK..."Cracking" is BritSpeak for "really good" and other similar adjectives. Now it could be a double entendre...

Another case of folks from the USA and UK: "Two peoples separated by a common language"...

 

[DavidA]

  Hmm alright. I'm coming from the Hifiman HE-400i.
 
I have the highs eq'ed down by like 4 - 5 dB, otherwise they're too harsh. But the problem I'm having right now with them, is recessed vocals on some songs. That's it.
 
And even with those highs EQ'ed down, they still occasionaly get a bit harsh, but not to the point that's it's problematic.
 
The recessed vocals on some songs are problematic though.
 
I don't know how much bass (mid bass most important) the HD 600 has relative to the HE-400i though.

The use of large EQ in the highs might/is affecting the high mids where you are noticing the recessed vocals.  I think the HD-650 might be a better fit since the HD-600 has a little treble peak at 4-5khz which bother some like me.

 

[Midgetguy]

Another case of folks from the USA and UK: "Two peoples separated by a common language"...

Yeah, it's funny to think of sometimes. People from both the US and UK speak English, but to both parties, the other one speaks "weird English" haha.

 

[ToTo Man]

 
Show me the proof of your sweeping statement, that there is a large variance in HD600's and then we can talk.
 
Otherwise I think I shall just choose to disagree...
 

 
Ah but I said that I was not making a sweeping statement

, 
 

 
Out of interest, how many HD600 have you listened to on the same source and amp?  I have heard four pairs, including two purchased at exactly the same time.  Of the two bought at the same time, one had a nasty shouty midrange peak, so I sent them back.  Based on that sample size of two, you could say that such a significant difference in frequency response isn't encouraging with respect to quality control.  This conclusion is of course grossly unrepresentative and therefore misleading, because of the inadequately small sample size.  I haven't A/B'd anywhere near enough sets of HD600 to make a general sweeping statement about the proportion of models that might deviate to an objectionable extent from the target HD600 'signature sound'.  But likewise, I also feel that making sweeping statements such as "[size=x-small]There are not good and bad HD600's.  There are only people who like and dislike them...", without the evidence to [/size]back[size=x-small] this up, could be equally misleading.[/size]

 

[MWSVette]

   
Ah but I said that I was not making a sweeping statement

, 

Then we shall agree to disagree.
 
Enjoy your day.

 

[Gianluigib]

Hy guys , i drive the hd 600 with a denon dac 300 usb connected via rca to the bravo ocean as preamp connected via rca to the smsl sapII. Is enough ?? Thanks

 

[martinrajdl]

Hy guys , i drive the hd 600 with a denon dac 300 usb connected via rca to the bravo ocean as preamp connected via rca to the smsl sapII. Is enough ?? Thanks

I find it funny how many people ask whether driving their HD650s or HD600s with this and that gear is enough (here and on reddit). I guess it makes sense to ask this since everyone has something to say about the potential of the HD6X0s and what difference certain amp makes. By that I want to say I have no idea.

 

[Timoteo80]

I find it funny how many people ask whether driving their HD650s or HD600s with this and that gear is enough (here and on reddit). I guess it makes sense to ask this since everyone has something to say about the potential of the HD6X0s and what difference certain amp makes. By that I want to say I have no idea.

I think a lot of people join these forums to get feedback on their gear because there are always others who have more experience with said gear, or know specs better etc. A lot of times too, we second guess whether or not we are getting the most from our equipment. It's very true tho that the question gets asked a LOT. Shoot I asked a few questions early on that had been "asked & answered time again" when I got into audio. We all need a little "reinforcement" at times lol. We are a social creature.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Would the HD 600 still have enough mid bass to be considered neutral? And are they vocal forward as well?

 

Actually it has more than enough midbass past neutral based on measurements. If your reference for neutral is the upper bass-low mid spike on Grados, then it's probably not enough. Of course, between a USB powered DAC-HPamp/portable (DAC-)HPamp and a high voltage output OTL amp or a Violectric (or even a Meier), what you'd hear pounding out of an HD600 can be markedly different (not to mention measurements are taken with a simple sine sweep, and even then, not with a low voltage output amp either).

 

Basically, what I'm saying is, as much as Grados have have more midbass and sounds "natural" to a lot of people (arguably the beat emphasis just allows for more emotional engagement - read up on how beat helps enhance euphoria in psych journals) and the HD600 has less (objectively and subjectively), there is still the problem of how it's a lot easier to make sure you're hearing what a Grado really sounds like than the HD6x0.