[Hengstenberg]

It’s been a 22 year love affair. Gone are the Focal Utopia, PS2000e, GS3000e & GS3000X, HD800 S, Hifiman 500 & many other higher priced and FOTM headphones; but for me, and, yes, my subjective taste, the HD600 still reigns supreme after my long journey in this hobby.

I’m enjoying Larry Carlton’s, Blue Sapphire album with it’s masterful production, & the HD600 let’s me discover every facet of sound and instrument in a detailed and balanced perfection. Bass, midrange, treble, transient sounds, fast percussion, sound decay, are all perfectly balanced without a hint of distortion, without upper bass or bottom midrange mixing. For example also, the bass drum and toms are solid and detached from the rest of the instruments/ sounds. They’re also very pronounced depending on the mixture/ production and drummer’s touch.

As I’m writing and listening, there’s a passage in the music which contains multiple instruments including different types of brass horns, percussion, drums, guitars & bass and everything is heard, nothing buried or blurred.

I’ve praised this headphone many times over the years. How can I not. Tyll Hertsens was still praising them during his last year with Innerfidelity. The HD600 was still part of his Wall of Fame, a 21 year old headphone at the time.

I´m Hengstenberg and i approve this message
HD600 with the right amp is the G.O.A.T - every time the HD600 grabs me by the balls with his magic sound and realism, i realize most of the HP buzzwords like "soundstage, airy highs, deep bass" etc. is just marketing nonsense.
btw.
My opinion has nothing to do because the HD 600 is a relatively cheap headphone - give me 3K bucks and i will buy 10 more, to give it away to the ignorant. ^^

Just found this love letter for the HD600 from this musician guy on yt and he´s not overstating <3

 

[codythelucario]

You will notice bass differences from track like these. Top one is modern hiphop with low-end that will sound much better with good bass extension, and the bottom one is typical electronic with bass impact (which are tracks enhanced by bass).

wondering what you feel about the bass extension on that cardi-b song. That's the type of music i listen to, I thought the bass extension was pretty good until i heard others talk how sub-bass is actually really bad on the hd600 after I listened to my friend's hifiman headphones (i think he400? or I forgot the model number)

 

[Hypops]

wondering what you feel about the bass extension on that cardi-b song. That's the type of music i listen to, I thought the bass extension was pretty good until i heard others talk how sub-bass is actually really bad on the hd600 after I listened to my friend's hifiman headphones (i think he400? or I forgot the model number)

Bass is the most subjective part of the audible frequency spectrum. When you see/hear descriptions like "extended bass" or "punchy bass" or "boosted bass," you always have to ask yourself: compared to what?

In my experience, a frequency curve only shows one of many traits involved in creating satisfying bass. I listen to a lot of bass-heavy music (soul, hip-hop, reggaeton, electronic, etc) and I rarely want a headphone with a bass curve that matches the lift shown in a typical Harman preference curve. The bass from an HD 600 is usually just fine for me. Do I sometimes like a bit more impact? Sure. That's what my other headphones are for. No single pair of headphones will check all of your boxes.

As for that Cardi track in particular, you may not hear (or feel) the sub-bass through something like the HD 600. But outside of those deep, deep sub-bass hits, most of the track's bass content is actually much higher and will be plenty audible. Often mid and upper bass is good at giving the impression of being lower than it is, so it sounds like plenty. Will you feel it the same as on other headphones? No. Does that matter? Up to you. If you like big, full bass that hits very low, I would make sure you have at least one other pair of headphones to supplement the HD 600. But IMO you generally don't need as much bass as you think you do.

 

[bagwell359]

I´m Hengstenberg and i approve this message
HD600 with the right amp is the G.O.A.T - every time the HD600 grabs me by the balls with his magic sound and realism, i realize most of the HP buzzwords like "soundstage, airy highs, deep bass" etc. is just marketing nonsense.
btw.
My opinion has nothing to do because the HD 600 is a relatively cheap headphone - give me 3K bucks and i will buy 10 more, to give it away to the ignorant. ^^

Just found this love letter for the HD600 from this musician guy on yt and he´s not overstating <3

I'm a big fan, the 600's strengths are many, but its not elite at a number of things, and not very good at some.

I'll also note that perception of soundstage, deep bass, and transparent highs is not marketing nonsense.

 

[jonathan c]

I'm a big fan, the 600's strengths are many, but its not elite at a number of things, and not very good at some.

I'll also note that perception of soundstage, deep bass, and transparent highs is not marketing nonsense.

.... hearing is believing ....

 

[bagwell359]

.... hearing is believing.

It's a classic - cheapest can I know that can get one to a sense of capturing the bulk of a musical performance - indeed a high compliment.

I urge more listening to unamplified music to anybody that thinks any transducer is perfect.

Added: sins of omission easier to overlook than sins of commission - and that's another feather in the cap of the HD-600.

 

[codythelucario]

I listen to a lot of bass-heavy music (soul, hip-hop, reggaeton, electronic, etc) and I rarely want a headphone with a bass curve that matches the lift shown in a typical Harman preference curve.

what headphones do you usually listen to on these tracks?

 

[Hypops]

I urge more listening to unamplified music to anybody that thinks any transducer is perfect.

Not to pick on you, but this is one of those stereotypical audiophile concepts that I just do not understand. Unamplified music is subject to more kinds of distortion than loudspeakers are (and way more than headphones are). As a lifelong musician and live music fan, the last thing I want my home audio gear to sound like is a live show (unamplified or amplified). Live music performance is all about mitigating a million different sources of distortion. In fact, the best venues, musicians, and sound engineers actually work with (rather than against) many sources of distortion because there's simply too much of it. Live music is not a good sound reference.

I love live music more than just about anything else in the world, but not for its accuracy. IMO "accuracy" is a total fiction anyway, but that's a conversation for another time.

 

[Hypops]

what headphones do you usually listen to on these tracks?

I really like my Focals for that stuff. If you just look at their respective frequency responses, most Focals don't dig much deeper than the 600-series Senns, but they sure hit a lot harder (another reason not to live and die by frequency response curves). By contrast, the Senns' magic is all in the midrange.

 

[codythelucario]

I really like my Focals for that stuff. If you just look at their respective frequency responses, most Focals don't dig much deeper than the 600-series Senns, but they sure hit a lot harder (another reason not to live and die by frequency response curves). By contrast, the Senns' magic is all in the midrange.

definitely, i would agree over there. I tried some of the Audeze headphones at my local audiophile shop and I can see more of the bass in those headphones.

surprisingly, when i bought the hd600s though, i did enjoy the neutrality of the headphones and thought the sub bass was satisfactory and thats what its expected in good headphones, but i guess turns out i was missing out. The curves in Peace APO I added to the sub 100hz frequency did give more oomph in my music though, which i was glad to see

 

[Hypops]

definitely, i would agree over there. I tried some of the Audeze headphones at my local audiophile shop and I can see more of the bass in those headphones.

This goes back to what another poster said above. Bass extension and bass impact are very different qualities. In my experience, planars (like Audeze or Hifiman) can be great with bass extension, but less good with impact. I find dynamic drivers to be strong in the opposite direction: great with impact, and less good with extension. But as with anything in audio, YMMV.

 

[bagwell359]

Not to pick on you, but this is one of those stereotypical audiophile concepts that I just do not understand. Unamplified music is subject to more kinds of distortion than loudspeakers are (and way more than headphones are). As a lifelong musician and live music fan, the last thing I want my home audio gear to sound like is a live show (unamplified or amplified). Live music performance is all about mitigating a million different sources of distortion. In fact, the best venues, musicians, and sound engineers actually work with (rather than against) many sources of distortion because there's simply too much of it. Live music is not a good sound reference.

I love live music more than just about anything else in the world, but not for its accuracy. IMO "accuracy" is a total fiction anyway, but that's a conversation for another time.

Goodness - you propose that the HD-600 (or other) is going to give a better rendition of a BSO concert at BSH - perhaps I don't understand your point - but if I do - the word I cannot escape is absurd

 

[Hypops]

Goodness - you propose that the HD-600 (or other) is going to give a better rendition of a BSO concert at BSH - perhaps I don't understand your point - but if I do - the word I cannot escape is absurd

Ha. No. My point was that using unamplified live music as a reference is weird and arbitrary (and no more "accurate" than anything else) ...unless, of course, all you listen to is recordings of unamplified live music.

 

[bagwell359]

Ha. No. My point was that using unamplified live music as a reference is weird and arbitrary (and no more "accurate" than anything else) ...unless, of course, all you listen to is recordings of unamplified live music.

Hardly arbitrary. The turning of pages, dropping of bows, hall ambiance. 3 mic recordings w/ ribbon mics was done in the 1950's and has yet to be beaten for capturing a live performance of that sort - maybe a spotlight mic for a solo thrown in. The differences between the treble in Boston, Chicago, NY, Salzburg, London can be heard under those circumstances.

About a year ago there was a poll here about great recordings - and Steely Dan was probably the most mentioned performers. Let's take "Aja" perhaps the most famous "audiophile" recording that they made. How many mics for the drums (about the 7th session guy they brought in - Steve Gadd) 14?, dozens of mics for the other performers. At least 64 tracks. That piece of music has never been played live in any manner approaching what's on the recording. How does anyone know what its supposed to sound like? I've heard it at least 750 times on some unreal equipment. I can opine on one setting vs another, but, there is no reference point.

Now, let's look at the chain from recording to our ears: 15 ips reel to reel, 1/2 speed mastering vinyl, and hi-res digital carries the truth pretty well on the first transducer front - but then two more before they get to your ears, amps and cables (if you are in on those) obscure the recordings. If I want to know what a Yamaha FG5 Acoustic guitar sounds like with Martin strings - first I'll listen to my son. Excepting that the less stuff in the way of the performace is where I will look and that's not with a studio recording bristling with companders, expanders, limiters, studio echo plates, etc.

Now here we are in the HD-600 thread. I have heard fine recordings (by my definition), some of them by the same performers in the hall they were recorded in. First thing outstanding thing to me about the 600's is solo piano and strings (solo and more). There are a large number of $1k+ cans that can't do it as well. So what an artificial recording does with most midrange instruments is likely to be very good too in terms of replicating it - on the HD-600. Bass impact, heft, dynamics? My lightly massaged HE-6 SE blast the HD-600's - given the juice I have, and the timbre is as good or better too. Treble? Ralls and DCA estats blast the 600's too - at a mighty cost. But back here in IRL with a tight budget for just one headphone and one amp and you don't want a bass cannon or "fun" V shaped sound - then get an OTL amp and a good DAC for your HD-600 - avoid the CC ring mod, get a PEQ too, and you are doing very well.

 

[Hypops]

Hardly arbitrary. The turning of pages, dropping of bows, hall ambiance. 3 mic recordings w/ ribbon mics was done in the 1950's and has yet to be beaten for capturing a live performance of that sort - maybe a spotlight mic for a solo thrown in. The differences between the treble in Boston, Chicago, NY, Salzburg, London can be heard under those circumstances.

About a year ago there was a poll here about great recordings - and Steely Dan was probably the most mentioned performers. Let's take "Aja" perhaps the most famous "audiophile" recording that they made. How many mics for the drums (about the 7th session guy they brought in - Steve Gadd) 14?, dozens of mics for the other performers. At least 64 tracks. That piece of music has never been played live in any manner approaching what's on the recording. How does anyone know what its supposed to sound like? I've heard it at least 750 times on some unreal equipment. I can opine on one setting vs another, but, there is no reference point.

Now, let's look at the chain from recording to our ears: 15 ips reel to reel, 1/2 speed mastering vinyl, and hi-res digital carries the truth pretty well on the first transducer front - but then two more before they get to your ears, amps and cables (if you are in on those) obscure the recordings. If I want to know what a Yamaha FG5 Acoustic guitar sounds like with Martin strings - first I'll listen to my son. Excepting that the less stuff in the way of the performace is where I will look and that's not with a studio recording bristling with companders, expanders, limiters, studio echo plates, etc.

Now here we are in the HD-600 thread. I have heard fine recordings (by my definition), some of them by the same performers in the hall they were recorded in. First thing outstanding thing to me about the 600's is solo piano and strings (solo and more). There are a large number of $1k+ cans that can't do it as well. So what an artificial recording does with most midrange instruments is likely to be very good too in terms of replicating it - on the HD-600. Bass impact, heft, dynamics? My lightly massaged HE-6 SE blast the HD-600's - given the juice I have, and the timbre is as good or better too. Treble? Ralls and DCA estats blast the 600's too - at a mighty cost. But back here in IRL with a tight budget for just one headphone and one amp and you don't want a bass cannon or "fun" V shaped sound - then get an OTL amp and a good DAC for your HD-600 - avoid the CC ring mod, get a PEQ too, and you are doing very well.

Awesome. As you say, a performance in one venue sounds recognizably different from a performance in another. The same instrument can sound wildly different from place to place (as do PA systems, monitors, etc). The true "sound" of an instrument only really emerges after you hear it in many different places in many different circumstances. There's no way to hear a live instrument separate from the space it's being played in. It's what makes studio recording such a different beast.

Anyway, yeah, next on my list is doing exactly what you describe: replacing my long-lost HD 600 and getting an OTL amp for it.