[CooloutAC]

And again, when you set windows to stereo pretty much ANY modern game will ONLY output basic stereo. IF, and only IF a game lets you to actually choose 7.1 without any virtual surround device you'll only get the front channels and a lot of missing sounds. That's how windows mixer works, it doesn't magically downmix to stereo unless specified in your sound card driver, which could or could not use HRTF.
Yes games do have 3d sound, except that before it reverbs through your empty skull the sound engine flattens the sound to a 2D circle with max 8 channels which are then crudely downmixed to stereo. Which means that once the sound reaches your ears it has lost all the positionnal information except from left and right. This is how if works, this is how it has been for years now. Just because you refuse to educate yourself doesn't mean it works as you pretend it does.

jeez, so beating a dead horse. Again, it doesn't matter if windows is set to stereo. You can still have 3d sound. In bf1 i hear rear sounds clear as day. like its right behind me buddy.

For example, dolby atmos switches windows to stereo. HRTF is in stereo. You are talking about two ear cups. 3d sound was invented over 100 years ago. direct channels does not automatically = 3d sound. And you don't need it for rear sounds. I only call surround channel 3d sound if top and bottom sounds are added to the surround channels. Do some history research. I think you know this though, and are just infatuated with me.

But apparenlty there are many definitions for 3d sound, so I don't blame you for being confused.

Except when it DOES matter, because again, most games rely on windows' settings to decide whether output stereo or surround and very few games are designed to actually take advantage of a headphone configuration, with varying success when it comes to positionnal audio.

Most games, even though they don't have an option in the menu for you to see, are still using 3d sound when windows is set to stereo. I've explained this to you already.

Yes, becauset IT'S FRIGGIN' SUPPOSED to pretend to be a 7.1 configuration when you launch a game so it can use HRTF on 8 discrete channels in order to downmix it to stero and then physically output it from the front channels. Because if not you'll not get every sound. I've fracking posted a video by MICROSOFT DEVS who explain the tech. I DO know what i'm taliking about, which is certainly not your case mr "bitrate".

Thats called 3d sound, or vss. If you use the hrtf option in a game like cs:go you don't need your windows set to surround. You'd only do that if you want the direct channel option in the game. And don't get mad at me that you can't hear a diff in windows bitrate scaling. I guess "your brain does not fit".

Says someone who doesn't know the difference between bit depth and bit rate... In fact you don't even know how sound works in the first place.

I don't need the technical specs or jargon. I just need my ears. Because thats all that matters in the end. You seem to be more concerned with other things.

Holy mother of f*ck, do you realize the bs you're spouting? You can't turn a pure stereo source into surround because you simply don't have the surround information to begin with. It's like trying to paint a reproduction of the starry night with only a black and white photo of the original... What you're saying makes no sense whatsoever and your only answer is to throw cans of paint at the canvas until it kinda sorta looks like something.

windows is not the source. the GAME is! again, almost all games have 3d sound, even if they don't have a checkbox option for it in a menu for guys like you to know its there. (since you can't use your ears) again, dobly atmos uses windows stereo settings. HRTF uses windows stereo settings. And even though its stereo, the virtual surround, or "pretend"surround as you call it, still lets you hear rear sounds clear as day. Lets beat this dead horse some more. Keep trolling.

The soundstage is just an impression of how "spacious" the sound you perceive is. Depending on headphone the effect is more or less pronounced. You can have headphones with great sound stage performing worse than headphones with a smaller soundstage using a proper vss solution.

Why not try it for yourself. compare bf1's in game stereo settings vs 7.1 and see if you hear a difference... If you dn't hear a diff, you're headphones don't have great soundstage. Or your soundcard and drivers are very old and poor. if you have a " brain imbalance" you might not hear a diff no matter what headphones you use lol. But this is what collin calls the "F" option. And comparing my game zeros to typical ear buds or 202's, changes from not hearing a diff at all, to an amazing diff with better surround sounds. Meaning much clearer front and rear sounds, and way way louder footsteps for e-sport advantage.

And whether windows is set to stereo or 5.1/7.1 doesn't matter. The only difference in this case is you won't have as much bass with 5.1 as compared to stereo, it will be tinny. But the positional audio will be exactly the same, if using headphones that amplify the effects, as you say. (soundstage)

Its ironic, you keep screaming "the source has to be surround" but then you want a 3rd party option over what the source already has...

And oh, please stop posting. We've already established that you're full of crap.

you have established you are infatuated with me. Stop trolling me then and I won't have to keep keeping you honest...

 

[Wontell]

Hey, can someone help me here please?
I just got GSX 1200, Sound Blaster AE-5, Game One and HiFiMan HE-400i, I need to test and keep one of each, how do i do that? Im no audiophile, so whats the best way to test for a noob?

As far as pure stereo goes, Sound Blaster owes GSX1200, for starters i have to crank the GSX to full volume to get normal sound, rarely i have to reduce it to 80%, sound blaster i cant get higher than 20-40% its insanely loud
The stereo is also clearer, supports Direct HP, 32Bit. GSX has HD 24bit mode too that works fine
In this round I prefer H400i and Sound Blaster
But thats NOT why i got all of this, i want the best Surround sound, I never had audiophile headphones like 400I but i did had expensive surround sets like Tritton AX PRO (when they just came out) Sony MDR-HW700DS, Turtle Beach i60, Turtle Beach Elite 800 Premium (Which I used for PC with Dolby Encoding SB) and PlayStation Platinum Wireless which i use for my PRO.

Whats the best way to test surround? Anyone knows about easy test files i can download?

 

[pietcux]

Hey, can someone help me here please?
I just got GSX 1200, Sound Blaster AE-5, Game One and HiFiMan HE-400i, I need to test and keep one of each, how do i do that? Im no audiophile, so whats the best way to test for a noob?

As far as pure stereo goes, Sound Blaster owes GSX1200, for starters i have to crank the GSX to full volume to get normal sound, rarely i have to reduce it to 80%, sound blaster i cant get higher than 20-40% its insanely loud
The stereo is also clearer, supports Direct HP, 32Bit. GSX has HD 24bit mode too that works fine
In this round I prefer H400i and Sound Blaster
But thats NOT why i got all of this, i want the best Surround sound, I never had audiophile headphones like 400I but i did had expensive surround sets like Tritton AX PRO (when they just came out) Sony MDR-HW700DS, Turtle Beach i60, Turtle Beach Elite 800 Premium (Which I used for PC with Dolby Encoding SB) and PlayStation Platinum Wireless which i use for my PRO.

Whats the best way to test surround? Anyone knows about easy test files i can download?

First you need to make sure that you select the GSX1200 in playback devices as speakers, not as headset. It sounds much better then. The you need to configure the speakers as 7.1 all speakers large. The best way to test surround is play a movie from Blu-ray on a good software if you have it, or play a game and find out by listening what you like most. I suggest to leave all sound enhancements on the sound devices off, only select the 7.1 simulation to compare.

 

[Glasofruix]

Again, it doesn't matter if windows is set to stereo. You can still have 3d sound.

Except it does matter, as i, and other people, have pointed it out to you before.

For example, dolby atmos switches windows to stereo. HRTF is in stereo.

HRTF is a way to process multi channel audio to cram it into a stereo signal. It REQUIRES a surround input, be it flat 8 channels or unprocessed 3D audio. Games do not output surround unless they see it set up in windows. And very few have HRTF built-in, when they do there is a checkbox, again, for people to chose because it doesn't work for everyone.

I only call surround channel 3d sound if top and bottom sounds are added to the surround channels.

Your own misconceptions are irrelevant.

Most games, even though they don't have an option in the menu for you to see, are still using 3d sound when windows is set to stereo.

They don't, see above. And we've already explained it to you, most games have a very basic stereo downmix.

Thats called 3d sound, or vss. If you use the hrtf option in a game like cs:go you don't need your windows set to surround. You'd only do that if you want the direct channel option in the game.

If you want surround through a pair of headphones you have to use either HRTF when it exists (which is rare) or a third party solution like the gsx to properly downmix the surround channels. The second solution requires windows to be set to 7.1

And don't get mad at me that you can't hear a diff in windows bitrate scaling. I guess "your brain does not fit".

I don't need the technical specs or jargon. I just need my ears.

This is grand, you don't know the basics (like the difference between bitrate and bit depth) and you pretend to school us? Laughable.

windows is not the source. the GAME is!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but since vista windows decides what sounds reach your soundcard.

even if they don't have a checkbox option for it in a menu for guys like you to know its there.

If they don't have a checkbox, they don't have HRTF.

dobly atmos uses windows stereo settings. HRTF uses windows stereo settings.

This is factually wrong, hrtf is an algorithm, it doesn't "use" windows stereo settings. As we've explained it to you, games do not output surround when windows is not set to surround. Dolby atmos is supposed to pretend that it is a surround device, capture the surround audio that comes from your game, process it with hrtf then output it through your physical stereo output. That's why it sets windows to stereo, because microsoft/dolby did not create a 7.1 virtual device that would select proper outputs.

Why not try it for yourself. compare bf1's in game stereo settings vs 7.1 and see if you hear a difference... If you dn't hear a diff, you're headphones don't have great soundstage.

Look here buddy, i'm using a HD598, the model that's above the HD558 yours is based on. I can hear the difference, your settings sound like garbage. If you like it, good for you, it doesn't change the fact that your settings make absolutely no sense.

And whether windows is set to stereo or 5.1/7.1 doesn't matter.

....

 

[Wontell]

First you need to make sure that you select the GSX1200 in playback devices as speakers, not as headset. It sounds much better then. The you need to configure the speakers as 7.1 all speakers large. The best way to test surround is play a movie from Blu-ray on a good software if you have it, or play a game and find out by listening what you like most. I suggest to leave all sound enhancements on the sound devices off, only select the 7.1 simulation to compare.

Hi what do you mean as speakers vs Headphones? There is no such setting, it has Stereo or 7.1 Surround setting when you press properties, when I watch YT and music I select stereo 24bit and it shows 2.0 HD on the GSX display and disables all the effects, nothing works except volume, its like Sound Blaster Direct mode.
When I watch movies (or going to test games) I select 7.1 Surround/Full Range speakers (as per GSX manual)
Its same thing for sound blaster, although for SB it can be done from its control panel.
Let me know if im missing a setting?

Do you know about any surround test files? I tried watching movies but its fast going and hard to recognize when the sound should come from the back, i should try some game since itst he main reason why im doing this.

P.S. Do you think I should also compare the 400i to Game One? Or "The Battle is lost" and 400i are by far better? (They cost more for sure)

Thanks

 

[ColinMacLaren]

lmao.... You already stated in a previous post, i'm using what you described as option "F". Thats 3d sound buddy. and ya my onboard realtek soundcard, is way better then the muffled muddied lower quality gsx. amplificaiton wise, bit rate wise, and most importantly clarity wise.

Again, just because the sennheiser is downmixing direct channels, doesn't automatically make it better then any other 3rd party solution. It sounds muffled just like any of them.

Yea, I gave you examples of different settings and which of these don't produce an surround sound whatsoever.

 

[pietcux]

Hi what do you mean as speakers vs Headphones? There is no such setting, it has Stereo or 7.1 Surround setting when you press properties, when I watch YT and music I select stereo 24bit and it shows 2.0 HD on the GSX display and disables all the effects, nothing works except volume, its like Sound Blaster Direct mode.
When I watch movies (or going to test games) I select 7.1 Surround/Full Range speakers (as per GSX manual)
Its same thing for sound blaster, although for SB it can be done from its control panel.
Let me know if im missing a setting?

Do you know about any surround test files? I tried watching movies but its fast going and hard to recognize when the sound should come from the back, i should try some game since itst he main reason why im doing this.

P.S. Do you think I should also compare the 400i to Game One? Or "The Battle is lost" and 400i are by far better? (They cost more for sure)

Thanks

The speaker vs headset setting in the sound settings of Windows. When you right click on the small loudspeaker symbol on the far right end of your flask bar. Next to the clock. Select playback devices and ten the GSX1200 as speakers, not as headset. Once selected check the configure box. There you select 7.1 and large speaker. This is all on the small manual that comes with the GSX1200. It makes a huge difference though.

 

[CooloutAC]

Yea, I gave you examples of different settings and which of these don't produce an surround sound whatsoever.

your option F indeed has surround sound with bf1. Tks for telling us the name of the greatest audio engine ever created for pc gaming btw... EACOREAUDIO!!! But Whats astonishing is you haven't even tried it for yourself. Maybe you don't have the game, and if that's the case why talk about what you never even tried?

Although, you might not hear rear sounds clearly, if your heapdhones are not designed for the setting, or your drivers don't have the 3d audio virtualization. I'm not even sure the latter is actually needed! But the bf1 devs have explained that you should only use headphones with those settings if they are designed for it. So those 5.1 settings are also designed for gaming headphone use buddy. As described by DICE themselves!!!

The revelation I had with this whole experience , is headphones like Arctic 7's, are still only two cups with two drivers with the only diff being the 3rd party virtualization software they come with. THEY ARE STILL STEREO HEADPHONES!!!! But they give that echoey cave effect its done so horribly, that so many of you, including me dislike very much, but they also have very cheap drivers that sound way too tinny.

The "stereo" sennheiser game zeros and game ones, are still designed for gaming, and do surround sound very well with my realtek 1220!!!! You have been enlightened!!!

I bet if we could take those same arctic 7 ear cups, remove their own virtualization software, use the games own native vss solutions, and have a proper eq for it, it would probably sound way better. Just like the GSX, these "surround" heapdhones are unescessary scams, that are actually downgrades. The headphone cups (soundstage) and drivers are what matters most. Since almost every modern audio cards and game has 3d audio support built in, with years and years of experience doing it better.

Again not only will you get better surround positional audio in bf1 using 5.1 game setting, you will get much much louder footsteps for a big advantage! Which is what some audio cards like soundblaster market for. "hear footsteps further away" Option F with bf1, does this in reality!!!!

SO LONG STORY SHORT, I'm gonna tell you right now. if you can't tell the diff in front and rear surround sounds in bf1, changing the in game setting from stereo to surround, you have such an old card you can't run this game anyways...lmao....or Your 600 dollar studio heapdhones are not good for gaming!!! Get "stereo" gaming heapdhones!!!

 

[Glasofruix]

use the games own native vss solutions

There are about 3 games with native VSS solutions, BF1 is not one of them.

 

[CooloutAC]

There are about 3 games with native VSS solutions, BF1 is not one of them.

and what gives you that idea? ever play the game? Are you a console gamer? lol PC gamers know better.... lmao.... We've already established that if people like you don't see a checkbox option in the game menu, you think it doesn't exist. Almost all pc games have 3d audio, atleast by my definition. The right headphones still make the same diff with bf1. switch it from stereo to 5.1 for yourself. Notice the rear and front sounds are better. People who actually listen with their ears, know this. If you want them to use a specific technical method to reach that outcome, well then it sucks to be you. All that matters is what you hear. not the label its given.

I can shut off my sonic studio software, and still get amazing 3d audio in bf1. Its the best audio engine in pc gaming to date. You are giving this website a bad name...

 

[CooloutAC]

hmm apparently even ps4 players on reddit know better. https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/58ot5e/psa_audio_for_battlefield_1_is_set_to_stereo_by/

intersting people in that thread saying to only use stereo if using your tv's speakers. but to switch it to surround for surround speaker setup or good headphones...

Do you have xbox? lmao... Maybe you just have a brain imbalance...

 

[Glasofruix]

and what gives you that idea?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-many-games-have-their-own-virtual-surround-sound.804273/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/7956w3/what_fps_games_use_hrtf_audio/

The ones i know about are Overwatch, Counter Strike GO, Elite. I think PUBG added HRTF recently. Rainbow Six Siege has some crappy one. Errr, that's about it, i guess. Each and every one has a specific checkbox to enable it, because, again, some people don't like it and want to have a choice. PC gaming is all about the choice and a crapton of settings.
And no, BF1 does not have hrtf. In fact the audio settings in the battlefied series were allways confising and unclear. The headphone optimizations (and "surround" recently) are just plain dumb crossfeed.

atleast by my definition

The problem right there.

hmm apparently even ps4 players on reddit know better.

Because the PS4 has a buit in VSS. You enable it through a button on the official headphones and by selecting 5.1/7.1 in a game. You can choose between stereo, surround or 3D audio (for the few that support 3D audio and IF you have the platinum headset), yes, using a checkbox. Unlicensed headphones (like turtlebeach or astro) usually use an external box through the optical out (older PS4s) or HDMI that uses dolby or dts hrtf. F*ck, you're dumb...

 

[CooloutAC]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-many-games-have-their-own-virtual-surround-sound.804273/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/7956w3/what_fps_games_use_hrtf_audio/

The ones i know about are Overwatch, Counter Strike GO, Elite. I think PUBG added HRTF recently. Rainbow Six Siege has some crappy one. Errr, that's about it, i guess. Each and every one has a specific checkbox to enable it, because, again, some people don't like it and want to have a choice. PC gaming is all about the choice and a crapton of settings.
And no, BF1 does not have hrtf. In fact the audio settings in the battlefied series were allways confising and unclear. The headphone optimizations (and "surround" recently) are just plain dumb crossfeed.

Confirming that you only think a games has 3d audio, only if there is an option to visible in the settings menu to check......./facepalm.

The problem right there.

That is a problem, the whole industry is confused as to what 3d audio means. Thats why people like you are so caught up in the technical specs, rather then what their ears hear. Thats why people like you are gullible enough to buy something like the gsx, you care more about marketing labels, then the actual sounds themselves.

Because the PS4 has a buit in VSS. You enable it through a button on the official headphones and by selecting 5.1/7.1 in a game. You can choose between stereo, surround or 3D audio (for the few that support 3D audio and IF you have the platinum headset), yes, using a checkbox. Unlicensed headphones (like turtlebeach or astro) usually use an external box through the optical out (older PS4s) or HDMI that uses dolby or dts hrtf. F*ck, you're dumb...

You are the one who said that you can't make 3d sound if the source doesn't have any. What you mean to say is they support it. lmao. As I've said, just like every modern pc also does. But as those ps4 reddit bf1 players say, "you need good speaker setup or "good" headphones for the 5.1 setting. They are not using the "special" headphones... He didn't say only if you have these "special" headphones.... In fact most ps4 users say they are crap. But there you go again, eating up marketing scams.

I explained to you how the game zeros proved you don't need "special" headphones to get surround sound. Most onboard audio drivers do the job. Which is a better option since these "special" headphones sound cheap and low quality, and their vss software is poor.

The sennheiser gaming headphones would be better for the ps4.

 

[CooloutAC]

How long shall this go on? 95% of the post are about you two arguing. It is more than boring to me. I come here for positive discussions. Life is hard enough, in my hobby time I dislike such behaviour completely. Can't you just agree to disagree, please?

In real life people don't get trolled like I am, especially over what should be common sense. This is why the internet died, and social media is now losing its luster. Too many fake pretenders and stalking trolls.

Reddit forums on these same topics are more like real life, because they have the avg joes giving their real live experiences, and its not censored, and they are not trying to sound smart. Its Not a bunch of wannabe experts quoting technical specs, hostile to any other opinion. Or a bunch of internet stalkers. These people can only exist on this forum.

They are trying very hard to reinforce their beliefs.

 

[MichaelJames99]

Is there any way to get the 1200 an input from HDMI or Toslink without going thru the laptop first? I would like to feed it a DirectTV receiver thru toslink or HDMI directly. Not sure if there is an adapter or something like that. I assume its powered thru the USB, which might make this impossible