[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd avoid Denons for classical. I've found them strongly tipped towards the low end and that they overemphasize the bass which ruins the mids and highs. That might sound good to you if you like heavy bass and listen to rock and electronic music, but not for classical.

Some of us do like classical music on our Denons.

But it does need to be classical music that you are willing to let the basses and cellos provide a real proper foundation like they are supposed to in real life. :snarky_smile: That can be a distraction in some music. And here's the big but, the Denon needs to be EQed to fix the recessed midrange or the violins are going to sound dull. So you must be willing to EQ and have a parametric EQ or multi-band graphic EQ that can do a proper job of it. I'll attach a pic of the EQ curve I use for my D2000. With the EQ on the D2000 the general timbre of violins on the D2000 and HD600 sound similar. So the EQ is doing things right.

Shostakovich's 7th or 8th symphonies is nice on the D2000 cause the bases really get going in places. Generally the dynamic classical works tend to be nice on the Denon, especially if the basses and timpani have a big roll.

As much as I like the D2000 for some classical, I consider it a secondary headphone for classical. The HD600 is the primary headphone for classical. The HD600 doesn't need EQ. It does things right. It does better with soundstage. Massed choral works generally work better on the HD600 because the soundstage better completes the full wall of the chorus. The HD600 has a more open and free sound. The Denon gets some cup resonance reverb and a more closed in sound.

So HD600 first. D2000 as a secondary for special cases if you are willing to EQ.

I've never listened to an HD650 outside of a local meet so can't comment on whether an HD600 or HD650 is better. I can say I am happy with my HD600 and have no plans to even consider an HD650.

 

[homeros8000]

How do you compare AKG K0x with Senn HD600 for classical music, is it necessary to have both to appreciate different kinds of recordings or classical genres ? I noticed some recordings sound great on AKGs while others sound miserable, I mean sharp and shrill, especially some string quartets recordings.

 

[Mad Max]

Meh, I never liked the HD600 that much. It was pretty good with classical, though. I'm not very fond of the Sennheiser sound.

 

[Ridleyguy]

I listen 80% of the time to classical music. I have both the K701s and the HD650s, and an RWA Isabellina amp/DAC.

Paired with my amp., I wouldn't call the K701s "sharp and shrill" at all, but they certainly wouldn't be my only set of headphones either, as strings, particularly violins, brass, and operatic sopranos, etc. can be tiring to listen to for extended periods with revealing headphones like the 701/702s, and certain recordings can sound very thin and bright in the treble, and the K701s reveal those characteristics. That being said, it sounds like your amp. may be an issue too. My ears are very sensitive to treble in headphones (I owned Stax for many years which were very sharp/shrill sounding), and I don't have this issue with well-recorded classical music with my 701s -although even with my amp. I would still want to have alternative headphones that are warmer sounding and more laid back than the 701s.

I haven't heard the HD600s, but I have read a lot about them, and if I was only going to own one pair of headphones, I would buy them and compromise on what I want out of headphones for classical. However, if I owned the K701/702s like you do, and wanted more of a contrast to their sound, for more relaxing listening, I would buy the HD650s - which is what I have done.

 

[homeros8000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridleyguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I listen 80% of the time to classical music. I have both the K701s and the HD650s, and an RWA Isabellina amp/DAC. Paired with my amp., I wouldn't call the K701s "sharp and shrill" at all, but they certainly wouldn't be my only set of headphones either, as strings, particularly violins, brass, and operatic sopranos, etc. can be tiring to listen to for extended periods with revealing headphones like the 701/702s, and certain recordings can sound very thin and bright in the treble, and the K701s reveal those characteristics. That being said, it sounds like your amp. may be an issue too. My ears are very sensitive to treble in headphones (I owned Stax for many years which were very sharp/shrill sounding), and I don't have this issue with well-recorded classical music with my 701s -although even with my amp. I would still want to have alternative headphones that are warmer sounding and more laid back than the 701s. I haven't heard the HD600s, but I have read a lot about them, and if I was only going to own one pair of headphones, I would buy them and compromise on what I want out of headphones for classical. However, if I owned the K701/702s like you do, and wanted more of a contrast to their sound, for more relaxing listening, I would buy the HD650s - which is what I have done.

I totally agree. I think my AKG K702 sounds fabulous with well recorded music. I believe (thin and bright) is closer to what I meant.
Anyway, I don't have that problem with other genres, like folk, rock and country. But classical recordings have strange variability in recording quality, even for the same work or performers!

 

[Ridleyguy]

Interesting, because for everything else but classical, and poorly recorded classical, I use my HD650s as I am very sensitive to treble - and they are also a nice change/contrast to the 701/702s for string quartets, opera, etc. At the same time, I am certainly not saying they are better for classical than the HD600s, but that may also be one's personal preference, as well as taking into consideration the amp. being paired with the Senns. as mentioned in an earlier post.

 

[midoo1990]

I also sold my k701 because of their fatiguing treble which I couldn't handle with classical or other genres.I am fond of sennheiser sound and hd650 is much mellower than k701 and never fatiguing for long listening sessions.I know that many say that hd650 is a bit dark and veiled but that's what I like about them as I am extremly sensitive to treble.
D5000 is the maximum threshold I could tolerate for highs and anything more,my ears will get fatiguid and will block.However,even though I haven't heard hd600,if you like more clarity than hd650 and you like a brighter presentation,then hd600 may be the better choice as others suggested.

 

[homeros8000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also sold my k701 because of their fatiguing treble which I couldn't handle with classical or other genres.I am fond of sennheiser sound and hd650 is much mellower than k701 and never fatiguing for long listening sessions.I know that many say that hd650 is a bit dark and veiled but that's what I like about them as I am extremly sensitive to treble. D5000 is the maximum threshold I could tolerate for highs and anything more,my ears will get fatiguid and will block.However,even though I haven't heard hd600,if you like more clarity than hd650 and you like a brighter presentation,then hd600 may be the better choice as others suggested.

Did you recable them? I recbaled them with Mogami cable and the result was a HUGE improvement in resolution, timbre, separation and smoothed highs. I also burned them for 130 hrs and the sound has become more relaxed with expanded soundstage. Now I'm an AKG addict. I only need the HD600 because some recordings (30%) are a tad bright.

 

[homeros8000]

I believe recabling the AKG K01/2 is a must. That's why I sold my K701 and bought the K702; it is easier to unplug the stock cable and put another.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeros8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had the Denon Ah-D5000 sometime ago. They were bass heavy and the highs rolled off, but I didn't burn them at that time and sold them within a month!

the D5000 highs are far from being rolled off...the HD650 highs are way more rolled off than the denon. agree about them being bass heavy(the denons),although I find them not bad at all for classical. but the senns are much better for classical because of their more balanced sound.

 

[homeros8000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif the D5000 highs are far from being rolled off...the HD650 highs are way more rolled off than the denon. agree about them being bass heavy(the denons),although I find them not bad at all for classical. but the senns are much better for classical because of their more balanced sound.

May be I'm wrong. At that time I compared them to AKG K01, ER-4S and UE TF 10.
The sound of the piano on the last three was more natural than the D5000, although on the D5000 it had more body.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeros8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif May be I'm wrong. At that time I compared them to AKG K01, ER-4S and UE TF 10. The sound of the piano on the last three was more natural than the D5000, although on the D5000 it had more body.

your findings seem right indeed,but I think that it is more related to the D5000 being too bass heavy and also have a little recessed midrange,not the highs.
the highs can get even too hot sometimes,that is a subject of complain for almost everyone who own them.

 

[homeros8000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif your findings seem right indeed,but I think that it is more related to the D5000 being too bass heavy and also have a little recessed midrange,not the highs. the highs can get even too hot sometimes,that is a subject of complain for almost everyone who own them.

I'm sorry, I'm still a beginner in this field. I believe you are more experienced in those descriptions. And yes, when I listened to symphonies the highs were OK. Thanks for the correction

 

[homeros8000]

But all in all the D5000 were too bass heavy for my taste.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeros8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sorry, I'm still a beginner in this field. I believe you are more experienced in those descriptions. And yes, when I listened to symphonies the highs were OK. Thanks for the correction

its ok mate, you don't need to apologize I was just looking for an excuse getting into the conversation

anyway,about symphonies,I think the D5000 highs are superb...really catching those violins,but the lows can be too prominent sometimes. as much as I love the denon sound signature I also think that for classical music,the more neutral/balanced is best, and the senns are really more toward that direction.