[LightDarkSonic]

Hi, looking at HD 650 to complement my HD 598 and would like to know how well both of them scale (amp and DAC-wise), got a E17, would the 650 do fine off then for the time being?

 

[cossix]

Looking at the specs, it says it only puts 20mW into 300 ohms which is severely low. I'd say you definitely need another/new amp to power the 650 for sure. I'd recommend the Magni 2; it's small but powerful and looks amazing. It puts 800mW into 300 ohms for comparison, plenty enough to drive the 650.

As for the upgrade, if you grab a more powerful amp, the 650 will compliment the 598 very well. I have both and I use the 598 for gaming and the 650 for music/movies. The 650 will have a very tight clamp but if you have them stretch a bit on a small cardboard box or tissue box then it'll get more comfy to wear.

For scaling, the 598 doesn't scale much at all to my ears but the 650 does for sure. The jump in performance from using a Magni 2 and Modi 2 Uber, to a balanced Jotunheim w/ dac module is very noticeable. I think it's mostly the power output, almost 2 watts into 300 ohms ☺

 

[LightDarkSonic]

How much of an improvement over the new M&M stack? It's a pain for me as I live overseas to upgrade so I'd like to don't have to do it for years to come. Also people say expectation bias is pretty strong in the end, did you ABX the Jontunheim with the M&M?

 

[cossix]

How much of an improvement over the new M&M stack? It's a pain for me as I live overseas to upgrade so I'd like to don't have to do it for years to come. Also people say expectation bias is pretty strong in the end, did you ABX the Jontunheim with the M&M?

I'll preface my response by saying that I'm very picky about my music quality and have pretty good ears to spot differences in audio.

For me, the Jot is quite a bit better than the m&m stack. It puts out more power through balanced output which improves imaging, channel separation, and dynamics. The balanced dac helps slightly with detail but it's the same chip as the Modi 2 so the actual sound didn't change.

For the 598, the Magni 2 is the most you'll need because better amps won't help much. For the 650, you'll definitely need something a lot more powerful than your sound card. The Magni 2 runs the 650 just fine for most people

 

[LightDarkSonic]

Guess I may settle for the M&M stack then, everyone says it's a good value after all, but how much better is the DAC on the Modi? Everyone says the DAC is the best part in the E17 but it's pretty much impossible finding a L7 now, besides the L7 doesn't feel like it lasts a lot, it's nowhere as sturdy as the E17.

 

[cossix]

Guess I may settle for the M&M stack then, everyone says it's a good value after all, but how much better is the DAC on the Modi? Everyone says the DAC is the best part in the E17 but it's pretty much impossible finding a L7 now, besides the L7 doesn't feel like it lasts a lot, it's nowhere as sturdy as the E17.

I'm not terribly familiar with the E17 but the Modi 2 is one of the best dac's in it's price point imo. Cant go wrong with the stack. I think it's quite hard to dislike the Schiit Stack. It puts out lots of power, looks great, sounds amazing, and is built to last. Maybe you can just snag a Magni 2 and use the E17 as a DAC if that works. The amp will make more of a difference

 

[LightDarkSonic]

Guess I will get a M&M stack after all, also it's pretty nice that the Modi 2 Uber has optical, at least for me it always ends up being useful, my desk will get a lot cleaner looking without the E17 with cables sprouting from all directions and my E17 still will be useful for when I'm traveling so I guess it's fine. Only problem would be that I may need to buy one part first and the other later, thinking about going M2U + Magni 2 or M2U + HD 650, things it that as you said it won't make much of a difference to the 598 maybe for my DT 880, not sure though. What do you think about this matter?

 

[cossix]

Guess I will get a M&M stack after all, also it's pretty nice that the Modi 2 Uber has optical, at least for me it always ends up being useful, my desk will get a lot cleaner looking without the E17 with cables sprouting from all directions and my E17 still will be useful for when I'm traveling so I guess it's fine. Only problem would be that I may need to buy one part first and the other later, thinking about going M2U + Magni 2 or M2U + HD 650, things it that as you said it won't make much of a difference to the 598 maybe for my DT 880, not sure though. What do you think about this matter?

I don't think it'll make too much difference with the 598 but the Beyer should improve a bit. I agree the Modi 2 can probably wait, better to have the Magni 2 amp first for those 650 you're getting

 

[buke9]

The HD-650 will scale as well as any headphone out there. My preferred amp for them is the Bottlehead Crack with the right tubes just bring it to life for me. It also does well with the DT 880's as long as they are the 250 ohm ones.

 

[serman005]

I own both. I would say that the HD598 is not known for its profound ability to scale super well. The HD650, on the other had, scales sort of epically well, especially with good OTL amps. The HD650 needs more amp oomph than the E17 provides, IMO. FWIW. YMMV, of course.

 

[LightDarkSonic]

I see, guess I've got no choice but to upgrade, problem is the darn L7 that can't be found anywhere which means upgrading the DAC too as I can't use the E17 as DAC only, I'd buy the Magni 2 and 650 no problem but the Modi 2 almost makes me go over budget and I'd rather not but it if I could help it.

 

[serman005]

I see, guess I've got no choice but to upgrade, problem is the darn L7 that can't be found anywhere which means upgrading the DAC too as I can't use the E17 as DAC only, I'd buy the Magni 2 and 650 no problem but the Modi 2 almost makes me go over budget and I'd rather not but it if I could help it.

Maybe go with the Magni 2 now and then push out the Modi 2 or Multibit, whichever you are going to get, until you can afford to make the purchase. That's what I would do probably. There is nothing that says you have to buy both now.

 

[LightDarkSonic]

Problem is the double amping I guess, what about the NFB-11? Would it be on a whole new level? If it would I would bit the bullet on it, shipping would be the problem as a relative would bring it back to me from the US so it has to arrive fast. Anyway if I don't find the L7 maybe I will buy the Schiit stack now and the 650 later. Also I never really enjoyed the DT 880 out of the E17, I wonder if it will improve on the Magni, I do enjoy it on the cheap Bravo Ocean though, someone heard the pairing Magni 2 + DT 880?

Edit: Found a M&M 2 Schiit Stack where I live for a good price, can't wait for it to arrive! Plan on getting the 650 on September if everything goes right!

 

[cossix]

Problem is the double amping I guess, what about the NFB-11? Would it be on a whole new level? If it would I would bit the bullet on it, shipping would be the problem as a relative would bring it back to me from the US so it has to arrive fast. Anyway if I don't find the L7 maybe I will buy the Schiit stack now and the 650 later. Also I never really enjoyed the DT 880 out of the E17, I wonder if it will improve on the Magni, I do enjoy it on the cheap Bravo Ocean though, someone heard the pairing Magni 2 + DT 880?

Edit: Found a M&M 2 Schiit Stack where I live for a good price, can't wait for it to arrive! Plan on getting the 650 on September if everything goes right!

Congrats! I was just about to suggest buying used. I got my stack off eBay for a good deal because I knew I was going to upgrade

 

[LightDarkSonic]

Thanks, I've heard that the 598 does benefit from stronger amplification, it's related to a impedance spike in the graph, that the bass gets stronger and I really wanna listen how my Beyerdynamic gonna sound on it! But more so the HD 650 I will buy, how does it compare to the 598 sonically?