[Jamnperry]

Looks good! If it's not a snug fit try using just a drop of silicone grease or something to make a tight seal. Some tests showed it made a difference with my swab things but shrink tubing should be better.  

 

[zmcqdv]

You are right on trying to make the seal tight.
Will look into it on how to make the tubing a little longer, and making a good seal later,,,
Will need to buy more heat shrinks to experiment more.
Cheers.

 

[Jamnperry]

The tubing that csglinux found is perfect. I might have a piece I can send you or he may have more. It makes it really easy.

 

[zmcqdv]

Thanks for the info. Just PMed csglinux. Hope he answers.

 

 

[csglinux]

  That's only part of the story and the curves are only valid for that particular BA in the Etymotic.
 
The general trend is correct though, higher resistance will damp the inherent HF resonances of the BA more. The location of the damper in the tube changes the effect though. The close the damper is too the BA, the more it only dampen the resonances and leave the rest of the response, including HF extension intact. The more the damper is placed at the end of the acoustic tube, the more it will effect a larger portion of the frequency response, including the resonances. I assume this is why Shure has combined both a closely spaced damper plus the additional porous foam towards the end of the tube to achieve their preferred target. 
 
Once I'm able to do measurements again at work, I'll post a whole series of measurements in the industry standard 711 and .4 cc couper with the different dampers and mods.

 
I'd be really interested to see your measurements - this would be awesome. BTW, do you have any papers/theory you can point me to regarding the effects of the location of the damper in the tube? I can't see a reason for the location being important, given the relatively massive wavelength of even the highest audible frequency. (Assuming we're at sea level with c~340 m/s, the smallest audible wavelength would be around 2cm.)
 
There was an interesting post recently on the main SE846 thread where somebody claimed that the fabric dampers in the stock filters actually ARE Knowles dampers. Can anybody confirm that? If they are, they don't seem to correspond to any of the dampers sold on Mouser. Unless, of course, the differences in sound are somehow connected to the removal of the filter tube itself, which seems a bit tenuous, but who knows...
 
 

 
 
I should point something else out: if people say for certain damper choices the "bass is much better" this is a placebo side-effect of the mids/highs being damper more/less. Those dampers don't effect the low frequencies.

 
Well, isn't that what happens with any filter change that shifts the FR towards the low end, e.g., a switch from stock white to stock black? In reducing the mids/trebles, the bass frequencies are naturally more prominent in the signal. I think I would argue that isn't placebo  There was another comment recently in the main SE846 thread (might have been the same person as above) who suggested the improvement was only because there was a couple of dB bump with the Knowles dampers. I haven't measured carefully enough to know if that's true, but if you can get the FR you want with less damping, that's a good thing in my opinion, because all these dampers tend to preferentially kill the very highest frequencies where all the details are. I don't even know how you'd do a fair AB comparison with these things. Would you try to match OASPL? Or would you try to match SPL at a given frequency? And if so, which one? (And isn't that choice arbitrary and/or dependent on what you're listening to?)
 
I found all the Knowles dampers clearer-sounding than any of the stock filters. They all seem to have less ultra-high frequency roll-off. Also, they're so cheap (and I'm still giving away the sleeving/cable insulation cover for free!), they must be the best value-for-money mod in the history of audio.
 

  Thanks for the info. Just PMed csglinux. Hope he answers.

 

 
Yep, it's in the post

 

[ThomasHK]

   
I'd be really interested to see your measurements - this would be awesome. BTW, do you have any papers/theory you can point me to regarding the effects of the location of the damper in the tube? I can't see a reason for the location being important, given the relatively massive wavelength of even the highest audible frequency. (Assuming we're at sea level with c~340 m/s, the smallest audible wavelength would be around 2cm.)
 
There was an interesting post recently on the main SE846 thread where somebody claimed that the fabric dampers in the stock filters actually ARE Knowles dampers. Can anybody confirm that? If they are, they don't seem to correspond to any of the dampers sold on Mouser. Unless, of course, the differences in sound are somehow connected to the removal of the filter tube itself, which seems a bit tenuous, but who knows...
 
 
 
Well, isn't that what happens with any filter change that shifts the FR towards the low end, e.g., a switch from stock white to stock black? In reducing the mids/trebles, the bass frequencies are naturally more prominent in the signal. I think I would argue that isn't placebo  There was another comment recently in the main SE846 thread (might have been the same person as above) who suggested the improvement was only because there was a couple of dB bump with the Knowles dampers. I haven't measured carefully enough to know if that's true, but if you can get the FR you want with less damping, that's a good thing in my opinion, because all these dampers tend to preferentially kill the very highest frequencies where all the details are. I don't even know how you'd do a fair AB comparison with these things. Would you try to match OASPL? Or would you try to match SPL at a given frequency? And if so, which one? (And isn't that choice arbitrary and/or dependent on what you're listening to?)
 
I found all the Knowles dampers clearer-sounding than any of the stock filters. They all seem to have less ultra-high frequency roll-off. Also, they're so cheap (and I'm still giving away the sleeving/cable insulation cover for free!), they must be the best value-for-money mod in the history of audio.
 
 
Yep, it's in the post

 
(1) re. damper position --> http://www.knowles.com/eng/content/download/2793/32792/version/5/file/TB-14.pdf 
 
There are some hints in that white paper, but most of my info comes from experience dealing with Knowles drivers and tuning.
 
(2) Maybe my wording placebo threw you off. We are saying the same thing though: subjective evalutaion of a devices frequeny response is relative. Case in point: make zero changes to an EQ except for a very sharp 10 dBpeak at 6 kHz... It will be painful to listen to and you perception of the bass response will be different although it hasn't changed. That's what I mean... so if you lower HF resonances, the bass will be more prominent and even detailed perhaps.
 
Re. your statement about the Knowles dampers sounding more clear, I really think something else is going on and I can't wait to verify this through measurements. I've mentioned this before actually somewhere in this thread, but I'll repeat it here. The filter mod you guys are doing is doing 2 things at once: (1) effectively increasing the cross area of the tube by removing the original filter and (2) modifying the acoustic resistance (i.e. filter). I'm fairly confident the increased cross area will have a larger influence on extension than the different damper values.

 

[csglinux]

   
(1) re. damper position --> http://www.knowles.com/eng/content/download/2793/32792/version/5/file/TB-14.pdf 
 

 
Very interesting paper - thanks! I guess this opens up a whole range of new possibilities, with Knowles dampers at the start of the nozzle and something else at the other end. One thought though... The paper discussing shifting the dampers in 5 mm increments (it looks like each 5 mm increment only has a very small impact).  The biggest change is over the maximum distance between the dampers, which is 58 mm - 26 mm = 32 mm, which is huge, relative to the total SE846 nozzle length. We've really only got about one 5 mm increment to play with, so I'd presume the effect of any damper separation within the SE846 nozzle would be quite small?

 

[zmcqdv]

  I found all the Knowles dampers clearer-sounding than any of the stock filters. They all seem to have less ultra-high frequency roll-off. Also, they're so cheap (and I'm still giving away the sleeving/cable insulation cover for free!), they must be the best value-for-money mod in the history of audio.
 
 
Yep, it's in the post

 
Thanks a lot.
Will try to do some experiments when I get it.

 

[ranjitotski]

Guys where to purchase those knowles dampers? Thanks

 

[zmcqdv]

Guys where to purchase those knowles dampers? Thanks

Retrieved from previous Postings.
 
Grey: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=3unH%2fDqlvl9jDj9uyvmVwA%3d%3d

White: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=3unH%2fDqlvl%252bz0DHih1fc5w%3d%3d

Brown: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=BF-1860-000virtualkey66550000virtualkey721-BF-1860-000

Green: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=3unH%2fDqlvl%2fu8b73ZrZUpQ%3d%3d

Red: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=BF-1921-000virtualkey66550000virtualkey721-BF-1921-000

Orange: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=BF-1922-000virtualkey66550000virtualkey721-BF-1922-000

Yellow: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=3unH%2fDqlvl%252byyYubQJkbrQ%3d%3d

 

[Jamnperry]

The ones you really need are brown, green, and red. These things are really tiny so if you're like me you might want an extra. I have a couple I've never found again. But that was before those great insulation sleeves csglinux sent showed up. Makes it really easy.

 

[KwyjiboVenneri]

Just bought the brown, green and red filters. Very excited to see how they're going to perform. @csglinux is kind enough to send me some of the insulation tubing. So installing these should be a breeze.

Will report back with my thoughts when i get them.

 

[adonissk]

I also bought brown green and red, arrived yesterday. @csglinux was kind enough to send a piece of his insulation tubing and it fits perfectly, thank you @csglinux!
I have experimented quite a bit and I think the most critical part is to get a perfect seal between the damper and the nozzle, otherwise the low end suffers. For me the highs are slightly veiled with green and red, which makes the low end appear more impactful, but I chose the brown damper because I cannot live with roll off in the highs. \
 
But at the same time I really like my bass, and this is where the seal becomes important. What I found is that even with the tubing, using a pair of tweezers you can still rotate the damper inside the nozzle. This tells me there is a tiny bit of space between the outer wall of the tubing and the nozzle. My solution was to coat the tubing with 1 layer of electrical tape. It makes it harder to push it in, but once it's in it's a very snug fit. And the bass!!! Played Lose Yourself To Dance and a grin started spreading across my face. This is the first time I'm hearing such definition in the highs and impact in the low end at the same time from my 846s. Before I could have either one or the other. Clearly not going back to stock. 

 

[csglinux]

I have experimented quite a bit and I think the most critical part is to get a perfect seal between the damper and the nozzle, otherwise the low end suffers. For me the highs are slightly veiled with green and red, which makes the low end appear more impactful, but I chose the brown damper because I cannot live with roll off in the highs. \

But at the same time I really like my bass, and this is where the seal becomes important. What I found is that even with the tubing, using a pair of tweezers you can still rotate the damper inside the nozzle. This tells me there is a tiny bit of space between the outer wall of the tubing and the nozzle. My solution was to coat the tubing with 1 layer of electrical tape. It makes it harder to push it in, but once it's in it's a very snug fit. And the bass!!! Played Lose Yourself To Dance and a grin started spreading across my face. This is the first time I'm hearing such definition in the highs and impact in the low end at the same time from my 846s. Before I could have either one or the other. Clearly not going back to stock. 

Awesome feedback - thanks! As you say, that seal is important. Jamnperry's recommendation was to use some silicone grease. That might still be a good idea, even with the plastic tubing over the dampers, because if you look carefully, you'll see (at least on my SE846) that that larger-diameter opening at the bottom of the nozzle isn't exactly round. Hands up everybody who went and checked the seal on their Knowles dampers after reading this!? I know I did.

Curiously, the fit on mine is very snug - I wasn't able to rotate them in the bottom of the SE846 nozzle. I tried to add just one revolution of a tiny strip of electrical tape, but it simply wouldn't fit - there was just no gap at all. Did you order your dampers from the mouser links in this thread? Did you cut the tubing to basically the same length as that of the damper? Were they pushed all the way into bottom of the nozzle, as far as they would go? Could Shure have some relaxed manufacturing tolerances here? (They may not be overly concerned with tolerances for that particular part of the nozzle.) Or maybe me living in sunny California has caused my tubing to expand?!? Either way, I'm glad you found a way to make them work. Your experience with the brown filters (vs red & green) closely mirrors my own.

 

[adonissk]

Awesome feedback - thanks! As you say, that seal is important. Jamnperry's recommendation was to use some silicone grease. That might still be a good idea, even with the plastic tubing over the dampers, because if you look carefully, you'll see (at least on my SE846) that that larger-diameter opening at the bottom of the nozzle isn't exactly round. Hands up everybody who went and checked the seal on their Knowles dampers after reading this!? I know I did.

Curiously, the fit on mine is very snug - I wasn't able to rotate them in the bottom of the SE846 nozzle. I tried to add just one revolution of a tiny strip of electrical tape, but it simply wouldn't fit - there was just no gap at all. Did you order your dampers from the mouser links in this thread? Did you cut the tubing to basically the same length as that of the damper? Were they pushed all the way into bottom of the nozzle, as far as they would go? Could Shure have some relaxed manufacturing tolerances here? (They may not be overly concerned with tolerances for that particular part of the nozzle.) Or maybe me living in sunny California has caused my tubing to expand?!? Either way, I'm glad you found a way to make them work. Your experience with the brown filters (vs red & green) closely mirrors my own.

It's pretty cold in New York at the moment so that may be the reason cgslinux! Yes I followed your instructions to the letter and I did get a better fit but I could still jam a layer of tape in there. My electrical tape is a very thin variant, that may be why it fits. I noticed that the bottom part of the nozzle is not round, however if you take a closer look, it becomes perfectly round further in, right before the diameter changes to the thinner one. So the seal at that point should be perfect. I will try some silicone grease and report if that changes anything, thanks for the tip