[amirm]

Very well stated. This is kind of what I was getting at when I posted my comment a couple of days ago. The ultimate goal of ALL of this is to enjoy music right? To feel good, emotionally connected. I respect that people like Amir are in the hobby for what seem like very different reasons.

What???

There are multiple hobbies here, some of which we share, others that we do not:

1. Enjoying music. We all share this one. As I type this and perform my reviews, I am listening to music usually with my headphones and sometimes my main system.

2. Chasing hardware. Again, we all do this. There are many who don't care about hardware and just listen to music. We call those "music lovers." We are music lovers but also hardware lovers.

3. Participating in forums to discuss the same. Again, we are all do this and it is another form of hobby/enjoyment we share with each other.

4. Teaching and explaining audio science. This is what I do. I have done that for computers, networking, etc. In my retirement I am doing it with audio. This in no way replaces #1 as you say. To wit, when I write my show reports, I always include what music was played and immediately rush home and add more to my library.

Some of you may have other related hobbies like going to concerts. We share commonality but also some distinction.

I enjoy music on every device I use from my little portable FM radio in my greenhouse to my high-end 2-channel audio system. Music enjoyment transcends hardware for me. Or fidelity. Or measurements.

Come to ASR forum and you see us have very active music threads where we share what we play and enjoy.

But while that is perfectly fine, the presence of what always seems like an agenda to convince people whose motives are NOT along those lines to buy this and not that just seems........ misplaced at best and suspicious at worst.

Sorry no. I don't give purchase recommendations unless really pushed. There are some greatly engineered products, and some that are not. You can read my reviews and decide what you want to buy, or not. I give my thumbs up or down not to make recommendations or not for purchasing, but because people expect me to give the final vote of confidence or lack thereof. It is like asking a mechanic to look over a car you want to buy. Ultimately you expect him to say if you should or should not purchase the car, your final decision notwithstanding.

 

[stalepie]

Anyway, the sound differences. With my speaker setup the sound stage with the 4490 is flat and somewhat narrow compared to Yaggy. The overall sound is really crap by comparison.
With the LCD X's the most noticeable difference is the lack of micro detail. Bass slam is also lacking, or rather sloppy by comparison.
I really have no desire to listen to music though this dac, cause now I'm spoiled by Yaggy.

Did you compare blindly and volume match? Set it up with a switch and an assistant nearby who changes the sources behind a curtain or something that obscures your view, so you don't which is which.

 

[amirm]

The folks from AP spent considerable time helping Jude with his set-up of the AP, including guidance on how to use the gear properly and also the parameters he is using. We only know the gear you use - we do not know the set-up. Did AP spend the same time with you, and are you using the same set-up (especially as far as parameters go)?

I don't know what AP has done for Jude. I can tell you that I have owned AP equipment going back to 1990 or so (nearly inception of Audio Precision). I understand its architecture, signal processing, analog audio, etc. While AP folks have been kind to lend a helping hand if I need it, I have not had such a need. I don't know Jude's prior background to getting into testing hardware but this is what I have done for years and years. I have both professional and educational skills and training for the task at hand. So it is not a new skill for me.

I understand that you don't know much about me but I have provided links in every review I do to my measurements and that alone should show you what I know or don't know. Here it is again: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-audio-measurements.2351/

I have also used other analyzers such as the Prism Sound that Bob Smith/atomicbob uses. See my extensive use of it here in evaluating HDMI audio performance: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-deep-dive-into-hdmi-audio-performance.56/

Here is my write up and motivation for purchasing the APx555: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-audio-science-review-measurements-jpg.13092/. Notice the depth of technical information even in an announcement type of post.

Ultimately we need to get past this "Amir doesn't know as much about audio testing." That dog simply don't hunt. While I don't know everything, I just need to know more than the rest of you all.

 

[the finisher]

Did you compare blindly and volume match? Set it up with a switch and an assistant nearby who changes the sources behind a curtain or something that obscures your view, so you don't which is which.

I switched the inputs on the Jot, I listened to music I've known for decades.

Did I take measurements, aaaa I gota go get another beer.

Oh and you people suck, very clever trolls.

 

[the finisher]

Oh ya don't feed the trolls, so ignore.

 

[bobsherman]

Ultimately we need to get past this "Amir doesn't know as much about audio testing."

Hard to get past the facts. lol

Please check out min 00:57 for some insight on mr. amir's knowledge (cough) of audio testing.

 

[Brooko]

Ultimately we need to get past this "Amir doesn't know as much about audio testing." That dog simply don't hunt. While I don't know everything, I just need to know more than the rest of you all.

You're right - we need to get past this. But not for the reasons you think. All that matters is that the two of you have the right parameters, the same set-up, and recording the same equipment output. You seem overly enthusiastic to keep posting your experience and your background. Personally - while interesting, that holds less weight for me than the same measurements of the same gear using the same parameters.

Lets do that first please - then we can delve into what the outputs mean.

 

[the finisher]

I see someone who must be noticed in the room. He demands attention.

I suggest you don't give him any.

Anyway this thread "About Yggdrasil " has been thoroughly hijacked by trolls so WTH I'm out.

 

[LouS]

That assertion is incorrect. I have applied that same standard to every DAC I have tested before and after testing Schiit products. It is a criteria I have picked as an engineer/manager who strives for excellence (no wisecracks about Microsoft ). You are welcome to pick more relaxed standards if you like. But I set my standards and I don't ask another reviewer to approve it.

More importantly though, I provide the full set of measurements for linearity to readers. They are then welcome to use whatever criteria they want. Take this measurement of linearity comparing Berkeley Alpha DAC on the left and the Exasound E32 on the right:

You see where I put my markers @0.1 dB. You don't like that? Just move to the left. I am not there to police you. Doing so will still show that the Berkeley is less performant with its linearity going more random than the predictable curve for Exasound E32.

This is what I said in the review:



Now consider this: I am personal friends with folks at Berkeley!!! Yes, you read that right. When I was at Microsoft, I led the acquisition of Pacific Microsonics, makers of HDCD, which was run by the same people.

Was it easy to say their DAC is less linear there and their competitor wins? No. But the data speaks and I have no choice but to tell the reader like it is.

Back to your point, I hope you see that graphs themselve provide full set of comparative data points. Indeed my commentaries are very, very short compared to say, reviews you write. The graphs and data are just about all of it. My feelings will not be hurt one bit if my text is ignored.

Julian Hersch(sp?) told me that the Carver TX-11 was an amazing tuner, his testing proved it, sure, the McIntosh MR78 was better, but the TX-11 was fantastic. I was stationed in Newfoundland and wanted to get a weak St. John's station in. My Sansui TU-S9 just couldn't pull it in as clearly as I wanted it to, so I bought a TX-11. After a trip back to the factory where they said it was working perfectly, my suck a$$ Sansui, according to Hersch's measurements, worked far better than the P.O.S. Carver. Perhaps in a city with I.M. issues the Carver would be better, but it was SUPPOSED to be great at pulling stations. Since then, I have not worried too much about numbers. I don't care about some alleged distortions. There will always be real world issues like windows, glass tables, etc. I just care if I hear detail you don't normally hear without it being bright, and sounding tonally correct. While I'll be the first one to tell you that measurements matter, other than things like DC offset and bias, I just don't care about measurement. What they should demonstrait/explain, I do not believe that they always actually do explain. Sure, if you see ringing, it's there and will be audible, but I am convinced that measurements currently have their limits.

 

[Currawong]

All -

I would encourage everyone *NOT* to discourage @amirm from posting herein this thread. Legitimate questions by me and others and/or rebuttal has already recently been posted, and amirm should be afforded the courtesy (IMO) by all of us to not only allow, but *encourage* his candid reply (replies). Also, keep in mind that one of the negative aspects posted on his audioscience review site is that his (amirm) posts on this site have been deleted, and that he has been "banished" strictly because (paraphrasing in his words) he has cast a negative light on the Yggdrasil. IMO, we should allow amirm (or anyone else) to respond in his own words so as to make him feel "welcome". At a minimum, that will dispel the posts on his site that he cannot offer rebuttal, which IMO lends credibility to his assertions.

Actually, he hasn't been banned. By rights, and the forum rules, he should be, because it's not his first account on the forums. If you don't know who I am referring to, compare his annotated graphs with those from a particular anonymous blogger.

I think that Jude's post was very well thought out. Just trying to determine bias though. Could anyone shed light on other than free equipment what would Jude recieve from Schiit? I'm guessing they pay to be on this site and go to events and this is an important revenue generator for Jude but I could be wrong.

Did you know that there ARE people in the world who are primarily interested in honesty and integrity out there? Maybe his "bias" is to stop the bull-schiit?

Hard to get past the facts. lol

Please check out min 00:57 for some insight on mr. amir's knowledge (cough) of audio testing.

Ouch. Honestly, if you're performing tests that would be considered by most people as "science", you'd think to be very careful to make sure all the settings are correct on the device you are using, not to mention provide detailed documentation and discussion about what you did, so that other people can verify it exactly, and also state that it might not be correct, lest you be misleading people. I hope that he is a lot more careful when he is doing AV installations for customers.

 

[the finisher]

Stir the pot, having fun in your vacuum.

 

[Ripper2860]

Well that bit of info explains a lot about what is going on and the Schiit-bashing culture at ASR.

 

[sennsay]

Quite a Schiit storm, eh? Tea, anyone? Jason and Mike may well be quite entertained if they aren't too busy doing what they do so well ..... which they probably are.

 

[Sal1950]

I switched the inputs on the Jot, I listened to music I've known for decades.

Did I take measurements, aaaa I gota go get another beer.

Oh and you people suck, very clever trolls.

If you need some instruction on the use of a simple SPL or Multimeter there is a plethora of information available on the WWW. Just let Google be your friend.

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"
Peter Aczel,
http://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/audio_critic_web1.htm#acl

 

[JohnBal]

All this measurement talk is giving me a headache. I'm going back to listening to my gear. Less signal to noise and less distortion.