NEXTLEVEL5
100+ Head-Fier
Apologies in advance if this was answered already but for initial burn-in does the Yggy only need to be on, or do I need to be feeding it constant music through optical/usb?
Apologies in advance if this was answered already but for initial burn-in does the Yggy only need to be on, or do I need to be feeding it constant music through optical/usb?
Why should they offer their own measurements? Buy it, don't, w/e ...IMO, regardless of whether or not one places any credence in measurements, and regardless of whether or not Amirm's measurements are good, bad, true or false, **Schiit** should offer into evidence measurements of their own. Clearly they must have something to offer.
Time for the cat pics ...Your posts so far seem information-free. Is there anything you have to offer that advances the discussion of the data at hand?
I loved reading everything you said but this line. . As I showed earlier, I now own the identical analyzer from Audio Precision (APx555) that Jude has in addition to the one I used for my Schiit measurements at the time. I showed a picture of it earlier:The best way to go forward would be to recognise that Jude likely has the better equipment set-up from a current industry standard - and propose that we use it initially to measure the same equipment using the same method.
Explained here: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-audio-measurements.2351/Hozzzabout tell how your measurments corrlate with sound quality?
I have designed plenty of flip-flops. I am most famous for this one:He claims engineering prowess, but has never designed. a flip-flop.
Just saw this - and really have no skin in the game (at all). Would like to experience some gear from Schiit at some stage - but unfortunately not that easy to get in NZ (I'll get around to it at some stage in the future - really interested in the Loki and Vali at some stage).
I've only read the last 10 pages or so - and its likely I've missed a lot, but I do have some observations which may be worth thinking about:
What we (or at least I) am aware of:
Here's what would help:
- Jude's whole measurement set-up installation was over-seen by the manufacturers of the equipment (especially AP). So its set up according to their recommendations. They've also assisted him with calibration and methodology to make sure he's using what they consider best practise.
- We know amirm is using very good quality Audio Precision gear, and has years of experience in the industry
- We know they are using different equipment - and can surmise they are likely to be using similar method, but different overall parameters
- We know (in the current debate) they measured different topologies, and used different overall parameters.
What i'd like to see (if possible) would be for amirm to arrange a trip to Head-Fi HQ to see Jude's set-up, and work with him to produce a single set of measurements. I'd like to see them produce those measurements for both balanced and unbalanced - and agree on a single set of parameters. I'd like them to publish them on both websites (the measurements will be the same, the conclusions can obviously be different).
- For everyone to stop the personal attacks, and actually recognise we have two people essentially measuring different things on different equipment. No conclusion can be made based on this.
- For everyone to stop with the assumption that amirm has bias against Schiit, and Jude has bias for them. Lets let the measurements speak.
- The best way to go forward would be to recognise that Jude likely has the better equipment set-up from a current industry standard - and propose that we use it initially to measure the same equipment using the same method.
I'd then like to see the same unit tested on amirm's gear with Jude reciprocating by going to amirm's measurement set-up. I'd like the same parameters used, and I'd like to see the differences. I'd then like an unbiased observer (an expert from Audio Precision) weigh in on why there are differences, and what really matters.
Out of all of this - we'd actually learn something (and both Jude and amirm could too - both could contribute to each other's overall experience). We might also start seeing sites who do measure come to a more common methodology - so we could avoid the name calling and complete lack of empathy we're seeing in this current thread. We might also discover some simple truths - and then we could have an informative discussion.
The next steps lie with amirm and Jude. If there is a cost to all of this, I'm more than happy to donate $5-$10 to make it happen. If we could get a 100 or so others to do likewise, and also have both Schiit and AP chip in - I'm betting its a possibility. This way everyone wins.
My 2c fwiw..
I know that this will likely offend some, but with age comes wisdom. And my age has gotten me to a stage of wisdom where I realize that not all things we as humans perceive can be measured. Our auditory system (including the brain) is far too complex for the dozen or so measurements some have seemingly settled on as the 'holy grail' of performance and sound. How does one measure soundstage? How does one measure 'air' around instruments or their placement and richness? Which stat tells you that this amp or DAC has more timbre and layers? How does one measure the emotional involvement imparted by music on some setups? And let's not even get into the synergy of the complimentary components in the system. If all I listened to was test tones, etc., then I would base my decisions solely on specs. I don't know for sure, but I suspect I am not in the minority in saying I do not listen to test frequencies, sweeps, square waves, etc., but invest my time in listening to MUSIC.
I'm certainly not wise enough regarding measuring of electronics performance so I cannot say one set of measurements is right and the other is wrong. The one thing I am comfortable in saying is that some some stuff sounds really good and some stuff sounds really bad -- irrespective of how it measures. We humans are far too complex to distill our interaction with music to a handful of graphs, numbers and plots. Say what you will, whether an objectivist or subjectivist -- my Schiit sounds pretty darn good, and I am not alone in thinking that.
Makes sense. ThanksPersonally I let Yaggy and my Jot run in for about a week in the basement on cheap HP's before I evaluated the sound much. But I'm kinda anal about making my first impressions accurate on any piece of gear. I burned in my silver cables too, I don't know if it really matters but I have plenty to do while I waited.
I loved reading everything you said but this line. . As I showed earlier, I now own the identical analyzer from Audio Precision (APx555) that Jude has in addition to the one I used for my Schiit measurements at the time. I showed a picture of it earlier:
The APx555 is the top one. The bottom was on loan from Audio Precision for me to evaluate. Alas, that unit only matched my 20 year old AP so I had no "choice" but to purchase the top of the line unit. I could buy a brand new car or that unit. I opted to drive the older car and buy the unit.
One of the main reasons I bought the APx555 was to make it easier to exchange project files/settings with others since it is more current gear. To that end and to the point of your post, Jude has reached out to me to see if we can replicate each other's measurements (using AP's loopback as I have shown elsewhere) there so that we are both using the same configuration. We will see where that goes.
I think we can sort out any disagreement by shipping some DACs back and forth and I for one am happy to pay all expenses for these. I do plan to go to RMAF and if Jude will be there, we could do more in person then (fall).