[mourip]

My Yggrasil is still v1. It's well broken in and stays powered on at all times. I don't suspect Yggy of being a contributor to my issue. This shouty quality has gotten in the way of my enjoying my setup for years, through multitudes of upgrades and changes. I've been able to reduce it but not eliminate it, and as the system has become more capable in terms of resolution the remaining harshness just seems to become that much more obvious.

To some extent it's become sort of a "I don't know where to start anymore" kind of problem. I've gone through amps, dacs, cables, and through it all I've never been totally happy with what I hear.

Is your system headphone based or speaker based?

Give us a list of your chain from start to finish including cables and we can give it a shot

 

[Xcalibur255]

@johnjen

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

I'm not a total newbie when it comes to electrical, but my knowledge is definitely spotty. I actually have replaced the wall receptacle, but not for audio reasons. I live in an older apartment. When I moved in I ended up replacing several wall outlets because they were so worn out plugs would literally fall out of them when inserted. The one my PC and headphone audio setup are plugged into is one of the new ones. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there were power issues of some nature, this is why I am finally beginning to look into conditioning and isolation. I left this topic alone all this time because it's A) intimidating and B) very high on the "might be snake oil" meter when it comes to deciding what products to buy. Since I couldn't build confidence in what I needed to do I did nothing. It was the same way with me for cables for years, but eventually I accumulated enough knowledge from various places over time that I felt confident to start making upgrades on that front. Maybe conditioning will be the same thing and I'll be glad I finally did it.

I suppose I'm just very frustrated right now. All these years I've never been truly happy with my systems, any of them. Every once in a while I will have a truly incredible listening session. Everything sounds great, sounds REAL. But those are rare. The rest of the time it sounds bad, and the other day I was just struck by how absurd it is to feel that way about something I've spent thousands of dollars on.

My greatest fear is actually that the issue is with me and not with the gear, the power, or anything else. There's a chance of that since I have had issues with my ears, especially regarding pressure equalization, that I couldn't get resolved. That one scares me because it means I can't fix it and I'm doomed to not enjoy the hobby I love 95% of the time.

 

[Xcalibur255]

Is your system headphone based or speaker based?

Give us a list of your chain from start to finish including cables and we can give it a shot

Sure. And thanks.

It's headphone based. Primary source is PC running JRiver Media Center and a library of redbook and hi-res FLAC files. That's connected to Yggy via USB and a Moon Audio Black Dragon USB cable. I have a pretty nice soundcard with optical and coaxial digital out, but it isn't capable of switching sampling rates automatically so whenever I hit a hi-res audio track I would have to go into the audio control panel and change the sample rate. USB and ASIO solved this annoyance, so that's what I've stuck with. Everything in the system is on a Tripp-Lite surge supressor, a commercial model but nothing fancy or audio marketed. There are two tube amps connected to the Yggy: a Dragon Inspire IHA-1 by Dennis Had, and a custom made 45 DHT built by forum member 2359glenn. These are connected to Yggy via Signal Cable Silver Resolution cables. From there my primary headphones are LCD-2.2 and MrSpeakers Ether (pre Flow). The LCD2 has a Toxic Cables Venom cable on it, and the Ether has a Norne Audio SolvX cable on it (which I've been very impressed with). At present there is no power conditioning present. The Yggy does have an aftermarket power cable on it, but nothing too fancy. I can't even remember what it is, I just gave it a spin to see if I could hear a difference.

My feeling is that the USB is probably the weak link in the chain, with dirty power issues being a big unknown that may be nothing or a big problem. I've seen a lot of people mention using high-end USB>SPDIF converters but I haven't absorbed enough info to feel confident digging into that. My hope is that if USB is giving me issues my upgrade to Gen 5 will help, which I plan to do at some point this summer or fall.

 

[johnzz4]

Sure. And thanks.

It's headphone based. Primary source is PC running JRiver Media Center and a library of redbook and hi-res FLAC files. That's connected to Yggy via USB and a Moon Audio Black Dragon USB cable. I have a pretty nice soundcard with optical and coaxial digital out, but it isn't capable of switching sampling rates automatically so whenever I hit a hi-res audio track I would have to go into the audio control panel and change the sample rate. USB and ASIO solved this annoyance, so that's what I've stuck with. Everything in the system is on a Tripp-Lite surge supressor, a commercial model but nothing fancy or audio marketed. There are two tube amps connected to the Yggy: a Dragon Inspire IHA-1 by Dennis Had, and a custom made 45 DHT built by forum member 2359glenn. These are connected to Yggy via Signal Cable Silver Resolution cables. From there my primary headphones are LCD-2.2 and MrSpeakers Ether (pre Flow). The LCD2 has a Toxic Cables Venom cable on it, and the Ether has a Norne Audio SolvX cable on it (which I've been very impressed with). At present there is no power conditioning present. The Yggy does have an aftermarket power cable on it, but nothing too fancy. I can't even remember what it is, I just gave it a spin to see if I could hear a difference.

My feeling is that the USB is probably the weak link in the chain, with dirty power issues being a big unknown that may be nothing or a big problem. I've seen a lot of people mention using high-end USB>SPDIF converters but I haven't absorbed enough info to feel confident digging into that. My hope is that if USB is giving me issues my upgrade to Gen 5 will help, which I plan to do at some point this summer or fall.

Silver in my system is a no-no. The only thing I have silver in my system is my HP cable, but that specific cable is known to be smooth sounding. I'd start by going all copper and if that helps, start swapping in any silver (or hybrid) interconnects one at a time. Also, to this day, I never figured it out, but when I had my HP system in a particular room it always sounded bright and harsh. After moving it to another room, it was MUCH better. Only thing I can think of is that I was really close to the main breaker panel- perhaps interference.

Also, to rule out your computer, you can get a cheap OTG cable for many Android devices (not sure what your options are with iOS) and use the 'USB Audio Player Pro' app from the play store. This will rule out anything pre-DAC if the problem persists.

Anyway, those are the places where I would start. Took me a couple of years to finally become satisfied with my setup. Good luck!

 

[mourip]

Sure. And thanks.

It's headphone based. Primary source is PC running JRiver Media Center and a library of redbook and hi-res FLAC files. That's connected to Yggy via USB and a Moon Audio Black Dragon USB cable. I have a pretty nice soundcard with optical and coaxial digital out, but it isn't capable of switching sampling rates automatically so whenever I hit a hi-res audio track I would have to go into the audio control panel and change the sample rate. USB and ASIO solved this annoyance, so that's what I've stuck with. Everything in the system is on a Tripp-Lite surge supressor, a commercial model but nothing fancy or audio marketed. There are two tube amps connected to the Yggy: a Dragon Inspire IHA-1 by Dennis Had, and a custom made 45 DHT built by forum member 2359glenn. These are connected to Yggy via Signal Cable Silver Resolution cables. From there my primary headphones are LCD-2.2 and MrSpeakers Ether (pre Flow). The LCD2 has a Toxic Cables Venom cable on it, and the Ether has a Norne Audio SolvX cable on it (which I've been very impressed with). At present there is no power conditioning present. The Yggy does have an aftermarket power cable on it, but nothing too fancy. I can't even remember what it is, I just gave it a spin to see if I could hear a difference.

My feeling is that the USB is probably the weak link in the chain, with dirty power issues being a big unknown that may be nothing or a big problem. I've seen a lot of people mention using high-end USB>SPDIF converters but I haven't absorbed enough info to feel confident digging into that. My hope is that if USB is giving me issues my upgrade to Gen 5 will help, which I plan to do at some point this summer or fall.

Wow. That certainly seems like a great set of gear. The only thing that stands out for me would be the silver IC's. I use some DIY Duelund IC's and find them to be detailed and tonally balanced without being fatiguing. I have always found silver to be forward and have glare.

Regarding your front end I think that you might get a very nice increase in refinement by adding something like a Mutec +3 USB ahead of the Yggy and use it's AES output. I see the Mutec coming up used on Audiogon these days.

BTW. I am jealous of the 45 headphone amp. I once made a 71A headphone amp with Tamura output transformers but sold it. I cannot remember who bought it but I actually still keep my eyes open for it in hopes that I could buy it back. I had a Tektron amp that ran 45s with some K1000s off it for a while. The 45 is about my favorite tube.

I wish you luck. It is hard to put all of that time and money into a system that you cannot enjoy...

 

[Thenewguy007]

My Yggrasil is still v1. It's well broken in and stays powered on at all times. I don't suspect Yggy of being a contributor to my issue. This shouty quality has gotten in the way of my enjoying my setup for years, through multitudes of upgrades and changes. I've been able to reduce it but not eliminate it, and as the system has become more capable in terms of resolution the remaining harshness just seems to become that much more obvious.

To some extent it's become sort of a "I don't know where to start anymore" kind of problem. I've gone through amps, dacs, cables, and through it all I've never been totally happy with what I hear.

The V1 did have a reputation of being a little too analytical. What is your entire chain?

 

[earnmyturns]

The V1 did have a reputation of being a little too analytical. What is your entire chain?

YGGY V1 is quite sensitive to different inputs: USB << S/PDIF < AES. With AES, my V1 did not sound analytical, let alone harsh (see my sig for details). It's now being fully upgraded at Schiit.

 

[SeaWo|f]

Analytical maybe, shouty or harsh no.

Intermittent problems in an apartment my first thing would be power quality. Conditioning and a dedicated purpose built music server would be the some of the last large steps you can take. Then it's the many little digital boxes you can add to modify and reclock the signal before the dac.

I would start with the conditioning though because no server or chain of small digital boxes will fix the issue if your ac is crap.

 

[Alcophone]

At present there is no power conditioning present. The Yggy does have an aftermarket power cable on it, but nothing too fancy. I can't even remember what it is, I just gave it a spin to see if I could hear a difference.

My feeling is that the USB is probably the weak link in the chain, with dirty power issues being a big unknown that may be nothing or a big problem.

If you live in the US, it might be a good idea to sign up for Todd's Audioquest Niagara 1000 loaner program. You could try a $1000 power conditioner for the cost of shipping it to the next person (and writing a review).
The iFi iPurifier AC is also a relatively affordable way ($99) to get started with power conditioning. And very easy to A/B (plug it in to your power strip). While one can make a noticeable difference already, three are recommended.

 

[mourip]

Wow. That certainly seems like a great set of gear. The only thing that stands out for me would be the silver IC's. I use some DIY Duelund IC's and find them to be detailed and tonally balanced without being fatiguing. I have always found silver to be forward and have glare.

Regarding your front end I think that you might get a very nice increase in refinement by adding something like a Mutec +3 USB ahead of the Yggy and use it's AES output. I see the Mutec coming up used on Audiogon these days.

BTW. I am jealous of the 45 headphone amp. I once made a 71A headphone amp with Tamura output transformers but sold it. I cannot remember who bought it but I actually still keep my eyes open for it in hopes that I could buy it back. I had a Tektron amp that ran 45s with some K1000s off it for a while. The 45 is about my favorite tube.

I wish you luck. It is hard to put all of that time and money into a system that you cannot enjoy...

After reading about your 45DHT amp I looked up 2359glenn and found another post of yours. In it you mentioned variability of the issue. Knowing that I would also agree with others that your issue is most likely AC power related.

 

[Xcalibur255]

My thoughts tend to go all over the place when I'm frustrated about something. The good thing is that it kicks off a new line of thought that eventually helps me figure out the problem. I have to break out of the loop so to speak and look at things fresh in order to find the solution.

I'm not surprised several people singled out the silver interconnects. I went down this road very cautiously and over a considerable period of time. Changing from copper to silver actually helped my problem and made the sound more liquid overall. The real reason I did it, though, was because the silver brings more tone color. Copper doesn't sound tonally correct to my ears anymore.

Talking with you guys made me realize there was something I needed to test out. I actually have another source available, a Little Dot CDP_1 CD transport. I don't use this player and haven't for years because the disc tray likes to jam and not give me my CDs back. Even before that issue it was a clunky player and a poor purchase. But I have never tried to feed the Yggradsil with anything else but my PC, so I took a chance on the jamming tray and connected it via coaxial digital.

The results were most interesting.

I would say this eliminated 75% of my issue. Some recordings still felt a little strained and edgy, but overall it was free from harshness enough to be a non-issue. I was somewhat taken aback at how different it sounds too. And by different I mean better, in quite a few ways. It was a nice reminder of just how much potential is hiding in the 45.

I would say the other 25% of the problem is more on the power side, and the wild card of it all are my own ears which seem to behave pretty differently from one day to the next. I can't rule out the possibility that I was just having a "good listening day" last night so I need to do more testing. But this has helped me decide where my focus needs to be. Upgrading the USB, or discontinuing its use all together. Power conditioning can come after that.

Oh, and the transport tray didn't jam either. Either sitting around for a few years did it some good, or it's waiting for me to let my guard down before refusing to return a disc.

Thanks to everybody for your feedback and suggestions so far. They are appreciated.

 

[Xcalibur255]

BTW. I am jealous of the 45 headphone amp. I once made a 71A headphone amp with Tamura output transformers but sold it. I cannot remember who bought it but I actually still keep my eyes open for it in hopes that I could buy it back. I had a Tektron amp that ran 45s with some K1000s off it for a while. The 45 is about my favorite tube.

The amp is my pride and joy. The journey has had bumps in it. Nothing ever goes quite as planned in life I suppose......... but I consider myself very lucky to have it.

 

[Xcalibur255]

I just google'd the Mutec. I had a feeling I was going to see a four digit price tag when I did and I was right.

It looks interesting though and if it solves the problem I'll add it or something like it to my future purchasing plans.

 

[Alcophone]

Talking with you guys made me realize there was something I needed to test out. I actually have another source available, a Little Dot CDP_1 CD transport. I don't use this player and haven't for years because the disc tray likes to jam and not give me my CDs back. Even before that issue it was a clunky player and a poor purchase. But I have never tried to feed the Yggradsil with anything else but my PC, so I took a chance on the jamming tray and connected it via coaxial digital.

The results were most interesting.

I would say this eliminated 75% of my issue. Some recordings still felt a little strained and edgy, but overall it was free from harshness enough to be a non-issue. I was somewhat taken aback at how different it sounds too. And by different I mean better, in quite a few ways. It was a nice reminder of just how much potential is hiding in the 45.

I would say the other 25% of the problem is more on the power side, and the wild card of it all are my own ears which seem to behave pretty differently from one day to the next. I can't rule out the possibility that I was just having a "good listening day" last night so I need to do more testing. But this has helped me decide where my focus needs to be. Upgrading the USB, or discontinuing its use all together. Power conditioning can come after that.

Nice, good to hear!
Power issues aren't constant, though. They might be the result of what your neighbors do, and more. The other day we had a power outage. Before, the voltage we got was usually around 127V. Afterwards, it was 117V, much closer to the 115V Schiit gear expects.

 

[SeaWo|f]

This could be a more affordable option

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/kte...6-dop-free-shipping-with-coupon-code-singxer/