[mourip]

In which case I would look down stream were I having issues.

Not sure I would call it an actual issue. I think that the updated Yggy just has a brighter, or revealing if you like, presentation that may not be everyone's cup of tea. In some systems and for some tastes it might need something to balance it out in that case. I liked it better in my HP rig than I do in my speaker rig although after over 200 hours it seems to be lessening. A long burn in is definitely required.

Thanks...

 

[adamaley]

All reports suggest the upgraded Yggy is mellower than the original. I don't necessarily associate revealing with brighter. Maybe you need some more burn in.

 

[Dave The Rave]

Just staying with Yggy in general, i have read some people liking or not liking the detailed presentation of the DAC (with speakers).
I have played with a lot of combos over time and below are some of my findings.

1. Bright or siblance -
A. when source has electrical noise => I removed USB which adds electrical noise esp on high end. I now have a Lynx Card feeding Yggy via AES
B. Speakers and room Setup leads to over the top HF or siblance => Bring your mid and high controls slightly lower to fit your room environment; PLAY with your speaker position (such a massive SQ improvement activity at no cost); Make sure the speaker cables match the system and make sure the FULL signal is transferred to the speakers by choosing cables which can carry a lot of detail.
C. When cables are below par => Get decent connectors between the amp and speakers; recommend to use the XLR out of Yggy with amp attenuation if needed; make sure cables do NOT cross with power cables or have proper isolation properties.

2. Too detailed, analytical lowering overall musicality
A. When speakers cannot render the detailed information the Yggy is providing => Ensure your speakers is transparent and can project all the frequencies accurately (i.e GOOD SPEAKERS capable of seperating the details and instruments would work better with Yggy)
B. Position, position, position => my revelation in getting instrument separation anf resolution to their peak is by spending a lot of time moving the speakers around the listening position. Tiny changes can make huge differences at times - usual tips with speakers not too close to walls, toe in if needed, base on solid foundation, tweeter/mids at ear level, listening position symmetric with both speakers, etc...
C. Equipment synergy => AVOID overpowering Subs just to feel good about low end as this hazes or muddy the detailed information presented by the Yggy (I use my Subs for < 40 or 50 hz frequencies); use good sources (e.g streamers or remote NAS). Often important details for transient, PRAT are lost because the source is not feeding the full/clean data to the Yggy (e.g noisy computer or incomplete PCM signal to the Yggy just creates the false and non musical detail/resolution). Note detailed resolution can be annoying if it is not musical and toe tapping as i have experienced previously. Adding a good source largely helped in my case.

3. Not enough bass or not as tight
A. Subs/speakers settings => Playing around the cross over between the 2 is so important. With such a resolving DAC as Yggy, i feel less is more. I.e get the subs to provide the missing bass from the speakers. In my case, when i had too much bass in my subs, at times it created nulls making the sound hollow (missing low) or muddy. Synchronizing the 2 is so important.
B. Speakers stand => i recently added a coin under my speaker stand and this made the bass very tight and impactful. Ensure the speaker base is firm as well); subs also need to sit on firm pointers to provide the required low reverbs to ensure the mids/high frequencies are coated/bodied adding to the melody.
C. Amp not good enough=> Goes without saying on having the correct amp to pass on Yggy's bass capabilities onto the speakers; Heard SS amp works best for low end (which i have).

4. Dry and clinical
A. Each frequency bands are not treated to address their weaknesses => i had this experience at one time as the mids was overpowering the LF and HF.... addressed it via speaker positioning mainly and toned down the mids of my speakers as my room has no carpets.
B. Bass and High are not helping each other => happened when i focussed on my HF at the expense of losing LF; addressed it by lowring my HF in my speaker (or amp) to ensure my speaker/sub bass accentuates the HF by carrying it rather than playing over it.... lots of trying with treble/bass settings and speaker position.

 

[mourip]

All reports suggest the upgraded Yggy is mellower than the original. I don't necessarily associate revealing with brighter. Maybe you need some more burn in.

I just added up my hours on the upgraded Yggy. I have been playing music through it continuously for about three weeks. That is a lot of hours. I swapped it into my speaker system which was already using an original Yggy. My original Yggy sounds wonderful and has a bit less detail but is short of "bright". I have a lot of hours of listening time on that system. So I am basically saying that I am comparing apples to apples with no other variables, just new Yggy in place of old Yggy.

For those offering thoughts on why the Yggy in my system might seem more bright:

1. Topaz IT with non-filtered power strip per John Swenson. All audio gear except subs plugged in there.
2. Custom made music server run by HDPlex LPS. Windows 2012R2 with Audiophile Optimizer in Minimal Server mode and JMRC as shell.
3. Dante Virtual Soundcard(DVS) out to Focusrite Rednet D16
4. AES out to Mutec +3 USB which reclocks.
5. Mutec Ref10 as master clock to M3USB which provides wclk back to D16.
6. SMPSs removed from D16 and M3USB and internal regulator cards run from another external HDPlex LPS
7. AES out from M3USB to Yggy.
8. Duelund wire used for ICs and SCs.
9. Single driver crossover-less speakers. Yes, have played with placement.
10 Linear Tube Audio pre and amp.

Basically I have a very quiet and resolving system and I am comparing a new and an old Yggy very directly. With 24*21= ~500 hours of burn in I am still hoping that the Yggy "cools" a bit more.

This is my experience, in my system, with my room, and my ears. YMMV. Sorry that I cannot give an unconditionally positive review. It is possible that I am just hearing brightness on bright recordings so I will still be doing more listening and reporting back.


Best,
Paul

 

[LouS]

Not sure I would call it an actual issue. I think that the updated Yggy just has a brighter, or revealing if you like, presentation that may not be everyone's cup of tea. In some systems and for some tastes it might need something to balance it out in that case. I liked it better in my HP rig than I do in my speaker rig although after over 200 hours it seems to be lessening. A long burn in is definitely required.

Thanks...

There is the Vandersteen vs detail issue, but Vandersteen types who liked dummed down details usually don't buy things like Yggdrasils, though if they do, as long as they actually do have Vandersteens, they can't fully hear the better gear anyway. That said, I find that to get the most detail possibly, for some reason, you are on the razor's edge playing with brightness fire. It sucks, but it just seems to be. The more the detail the more critical each component's neutrality is.

 

[LouS]

All reports suggest the upgraded Yggy is mellower than the original. I don't necessarily associate revealing with brighter. Maybe you need some more burn in.

I have only heard the V2, so I cannot intelligently speak from personal experience as to V1 or V2's sound, but from what I have read the only mellowness has been in the form of tighter bass. Anyway, I have always found that the more revealing the closer to bright I get. Often it's due partly to decreased emphasis of bass, or mids, but at times those can be right, but highs are tipped up. All these can make a system sound more detailed, as well as it being brighter.

 

[jscmd2000]

There is an interesting phenomenon everyone is talking about on the internet... yanni vs. laurel. so I guess we do hear things differently.
I noticed, despite the noticeable improvement I hear with the gen5 usb upgrade, the optical signal into Yggy2 sounds slightly less bright but still detailed. I can tolerate louder volumes without the treble bothering me too much. Also, the volume is much louder with the optical input for some reason, as if the signal going in is a cleaner and less impeded. I am starting to wonder how the AES input will sound in comparison to usb and optical.

 

[hifimckinney]

Not sure I would call it an actual issue. I think that the updated Yggy just has a brighter, or revealing if you like, presentation that may not be everyone's cup of tea. In some systems and for some tastes it might need something to balance it out in that case. I liked it better in my HP rig than I do in my speaker rig although after over 200 hours it seems to be lessening. A long burn in is definitely required.

Thanks...

I would prefer calling it 'revealing' because every other recording is so different from previous one, it is hard to label any piece of equipment in your chain. Looking at your system's description, the crossoverless speakers and Dante, I can imagine how your system sounds. Try this track - one of those wherein I find voice to be on softer side while track has some real nice highs too. Please let us know your thoughts.

 

[Ableza]

There is an interesting phenomenon everyone is talking about on the internet... yanni vs. laurel. so I guess we do hear things differently.
I noticed, despite the noticeable improvement I hear with the gen5 usb upgrade, the optical signal into Yggy2 sounds slightly less bright but still detailed. I can tolerate louder volumes without the treble bothering me too much. Also, the volume is much louder with the optical input for some reason, as if the signal going in is a cleaner and less impeded. I am starting to wonder how the AES input will sound in comparison to usb and optical.

I played that clip through my Yggdrasil and all I heard was "dumbass"

 

[jscmd2000]

Haha, alwasys better with Yggdrasil.

 

[LarryMagoo]

I would prefer calling it 'revealing' because every other recording is so different from previous one, it is hard to label any piece of equipment in your chain. Looking at your system's description, the crossoverless speakers and Dante, I can imagine how your system sounds. Try this track - one of those wherein I find voice to be on softer side while track has some real nice highs too. Please let us know your thoughts.

I really dig JJ as I have all his albums. They are wonderfully recorded as I also use some of his music for evaluation. None of his albums sound bright/hard to me though I have the not upgraded yet.....Interesting reading the impressions of Analog 2.

 

[Xcalibur255]

1. Topaz IT with non-filtered power strip per John Swenson.

Best,
Paul

I was actually just going down the rabbit hole that is that thread last night. I've been fighting a hardness or shouty quality in the upper mids and highs that just will not go away no matter what I do so I'm turning to the only frontier I have yet to explore: power filtering. There is even more mis-information and back-and-forth arguing on this topic then there is on cables, and no consensus whatsoever.

The common feeling I got from people was that the Topaz has a veil lifting effect that improves transparency, but I'm after a reduction in harshness. Do you think implementing the Topaz had that effect for you in your system?

Thanks!

 

[mourip]

I was actually just going down the rabbit hole that is that thread last night. I've been fighting a hardness or shouty quality in the upper mids and highs that just will not go away no matter what I do so I'm turning to the only frontier I have yet to explore: power filtering. There is even more mis-information and back-and-forth arguing on this topic then there is on cables, and no consensus whatsoever.

The common feeling I got from people was that the Topaz has a veil lifting effect that improves transparency, but I'm after a reduction in harshness. Do you think implementing the Topaz had that effect for you in your system?

Thanks!

I would say that it lowers the noise floor revealing more subtle detail. I do not remember an effect on harshness but at the point I added it that was not an issue for me.

How many hours do you have on your Yggy v2? I am starting to think that even 300 hours is not too much to wait for burn-in...

BTW. Mine is starting to sound smoother and more balanced. I have way over 300 hours now, mostly from just letting music play without my pre/amp on.

 

[Xcalibur255]

I would say that it lowers the noise floor revealing more subtle detail. I do not remember an effect on harshness but at the point I added it that was not an issue for me.

How many hours do you have on your Yggy v2? I am starting to think that even 300 hours is not too much to wait for burn-in...

BTW. Mine is starting to sound smoother and more balanced. I have way over 300 hours now, mostly from just letting music play without my pre/amp on.

My Yggrasil is still v1. It's well broken in and stays powered on at all times. I don't suspect Yggy of being a contributor to my issue. This shouty quality has gotten in the way of my enjoying my setup for years, through multitudes of upgrades and changes. I've been able to reduce it but not eliminate it, and as the system has become more capable in terms of resolution the remaining harshness just seems to become that much more obvious.

To some extent it's become sort of a "I don't know where to start anymore" kind of problem. I've gone through amps, dacs, cables, and through it all I've never been totally happy with what I hear.

 

[johnjen]

My Yggrasil is still v1. It's well broken in and stays powered on at all times. I don't suspect Yggy of being a contributor to my issue. This shouty quality has gotten in the way of my enjoying my setup for years, through multitudes of upgrades and changes. I've been able to reduce it but not eliminate it, and as the system has become more capable in terms of resolution the remaining harshness just seems to become that much more obvious.

To some extent it's become sort of a "I don't know where to start anymore" kind of problem. I've gone through amps, dacs, cables, and through it all I've never been totally happy with what I hear.

Not knowing your degree of technical experience etc. and going by what you stated above, it sounds like there is an aspect that is common to ALL of the experimentation you have performed thus far.
And one, all to easily overlooked aspect, is the power being delivered and used by the entire system.

There are a few easy (relatively speaking if you know what you're doing) electrical checks and experiments to try.
#1 measure the voltage both AC and DC between neutral and ground at the duplex receptacle that is feeding your system.
There should be a very low amount of AC (less than 1/2 volt, preferably much less) and no DC voltage.
These voltages should also be steady and not jump around.

#2 Have you ever replaced the duplex receptacle(s) in the wall?
In some cases, especially in older buildings, they can 'wear out' and become a source of noise and limit the current flow, with subsequent deterioration of the SQ of the entire system.
One way to tell if they should be changed is, is the plug held securely and not be able to wiggle or vibrate in the receptacle?

#3 In some situations the AC power can be 'contaminated' with the noise generated by other loads in the same breaker panel, and if your audio system shares the same phase in the panel, this contamination will propagate into the audio system.
Moving the branch circuit that feeds your system, to the other phase in the breaker panel, can sometimes alleviate this spurious noise.

#4 is the ground connection back at the panel in good shape?
Or is the ground 'floating' that your audio system is using?
A ground that is contaminated with electrical noise will add unwanted masking and other deleterious effects, such as harshness and can raise the noise floor.

#5 as an experiment you might try an 'audio grade' duplex receptacle instead of the usual ¢99 hardware store contractor grade receptacle that is ubiquitous, because it is the cheapest the contractor could find when the electrical system was installed.
I would recommend a Cryo'd receptacle which can be found for as low as ≈ $25.

All of the above is fairly light duty in terms of what can be done easily.
There is another level (or 2) you can take this too, and it is a good practice for the health and safety of your electrical service.
BUT it means you MUST KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!
What is entailed is to trip every branch circuit breaker in your panel, off, then wait 1-2 seconds then back on.
Feel the action of the breaker as it trips in both directions and make sure they all feel and work the same.
If any breaker feels different or doesn't work properly, replace it and avoid bigger problems down the road.

And if you do feel like you want to go this extra step, or get someone who can,
When the breaker is tripped off, make sure the clamp/set screw is tight,
and or, pull the wire out and make sure it isn't corroded/discolored/damaged in any way.
Especially check any wire that was loose in the breaker where the clamp/set screw was loose when you first checked it.

All of the above assumes you know how to use a DVM and are familiar with how to handle live AC power circuits.
If not, then an electrician or a technically oriented friend who does have this experience should be brought in to help.

IOW
BE CAREFUL,
you can all to easily kill yourself, weld your screwdriver across the 220amp (or more) service feeds, or other mishap.
This is not for the non technically oriented DIY'r, but it isn't rocket surgery either, at least for those with the requisite proclivities.

And yeah there is much more to all of this, but the suitability of the power being fed to our systems can sometimes be problematic, in and of itself.

JJ