[Tim van der Leeuw]

I will follow your updates on this, since I'm considering an upgrade of my speakers at this point.

Given the constraints of my livingroom, I'm looking for bookshelf speakers or perhaps the wall-mountable DALI Rubicon LCR. What is the type of speakers you are looking for?

 

[unsane69]

Given the constraints of my livingroom, I'm looking for bookshelf speakers or perhaps the wall-mountable DALI Rubicon LCR. What is the type of speakers you are looking for?

Ah, lol, probably some high efficiency floorstanders; I'm hopefully going to audition some Zu Omen and DW's sometime during the next month(s). Was looking at Klipsch Heritage too, but seems like there is no one left to audition in DK. So that's probably not going to happen...

 

[wout31]

Given the constraints of my livingroom, I'm looking for bookshelf speakers or perhaps the wall-mountable DALI Rubicon LCR. What is the type of speakers you are looking for?

In the case you are looking for small, make sure you listen to these very special Tannoy's about the same price.



Important advice: don't listen with your eyes, but only with your ears.
An odd looking speaker can sound great. A great looking speaker can sound awful.
Most of the time more difficult to get spouse approval because of low WAF on odd looking speakers.
http://www.tannoy.com/Categories/Tannoy/PRESTIGE/AUTOGRAPH-MINI-OW/p/P0DEK#googtrans(en|en)
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/tannoy4/autographmini.html

 

[Alcophone]

For budget speakers it's a good idea to listen to Wharfedales. Stereophile did a review of the PSB Alpha and really liked it. And there are always the Elacs.

I just got the Wharfedale EVO 4.4 and definitely like them. The EVO 4.2 could be quite nice, essentially the top half of an EVO 4.4 (and half the price at $1000). Bottom ported.





The ELAC DBR62 sounded great at RMAF. $500, should be available in November.

 

[Tim van der Leeuw]

I just got the Wharfedale EVO 4.4 and definitely like them. The EVO 4.2 could be quite nice, essentially the top half of an EVO 4.4 (and half the price at $1000). Bottom ported.

I read a very enthusiastic review about the Wharfedale Lintons in Stereophile, but the article did say they are very sensitive to room-placement:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/wharfedale-linton-heritage-loudspeaker-page-2

Although I weak spot for Wharfedale since my father had them for as long as I can remember, I'm realising more and more that any speaker that is so sensitive to placement won't be a fit so these new Wharfedales are probably out of consideration. I've started to look at speakers that do not have bass-port, but rather have a closed enclosure, like the ATC SCM11 or SCM19:

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm11/

These do require a rather powerful amplifier though, recommended is a 75 to 300 watts power-amp for their entire line. (So that's at least 1 vidar, no Aegir or Ragnaroks need apply ).

The Rubicon LCR should also not have a problem with lack of space around them, since they are intended to be wall-mounted, but I need to really seriously evaluate how good they are for stereo music playback and not "just" as part of a surround-setup.

Still looking out for other speakers, I will check out the ELACs!

Edit: Fixed link

 

[Alcophone]

I read a very enthusiastic review about the Wharfedale Lintons in Stereophile, but the article did say they are very sensitive to room-placement:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/wharfedale-linton-heritage-loudspeaker-page-2

Although I weak spot for Wharfedale since my father had them for as long as I can remember, I'm realising more and more that any speaker that is so sensitive to placement won't be a fit so these new Wharfedales are probably out of consideration.

The Lintons have two rear ports, so that's not too surprising. The Evo 4 series is bottom ported, though. My ELAC BS 403 are also bottom ported, and I actually had them inside a narrow bookcase for a while (before the WAF moved out). I put foam based isolation below them and reinforced the back wall of the book case to reduce rattling, and that worked fine. Imaging wasn't as good as on stands (to be expected), but I didn't have issues with the bass response, at least.

I've started to look at speakers that do not have bass-port, but rather have a closed enclosure, like the ATC SCM11 or SCM19:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/wharfedale-linton-heritage-loudspeaker-page-2

Wrong link?
The ATC were on my short list as well, but seemed overpriced. I never heard these models, but other (much bigger) ATC speakers at shows. I didn't get what the fuss was about, but it may be suboptimal pairing - I'll keep seeking them out at shows. I do like the look of their midrange driver - part of what I found attractive about the Wharfedale Evo 4 as well, it has the same basic shape (definitely a different driver, though).

The only sealed speakers I have heard are the Audiovector QR1. $1100 a pair at the time, gorgeous, great imaging (better than the ELAC BS 403), but somewhat lacking bass impact. The BS 403 were more balanced, so I went with them instead.

I love my sealed Rythmik subs, though.

These do require a rather powerful amplifier though, recommended is a 75 to 300 watts power-amp for their entire line. (So that's at least 1 vidar, no Aegir or Ragnaroks need apply ).

Ragnarok 2 would probably do just fine. They are rated as 85 dB efficient, my Ragnarok 2 can get the ELAC BS 403 and Magnepan LRS (both rated at 4 ohms, 84 dB) louder than comfortable, on low gain, while barely getting warm (Vidar idles warmer) and without ever going into protection. With quieter sources I'd be close to the end of the volume range, admittedly (normally at 3-4 pm for "loud", 1-2 pm for quiet, driven balanced with the Yggdrasil), but I didn't notice any sound degradation. The Ragnarok 2's specs seem very conservative.

The Rubicon LCR should also not have a problem with lack of space around them, since they are intended to be wall-mounted, but I need to really seriously evaluate how good they are for stereo music playback and not "just" as part of a surround-setup.

59 Hz (at +/- 3 dB) is definitely a bad starting point. No bookshelf (and only a few floor standers) should be without a subwoofer in my opinion, but I fear the Rubicon would need one, while others could still sound fun enough without one.
54 Hz (at -6 dB!) for the SCM19 is discouraging as well, 45 Hz (at -6 dB) for the Audiovector QR1 might be good, but the bass that was there didn't seem plentiful enough (with Vidar in an audio store)
The Lintons seem to go very low (40 Hz at +/- 3 dB, 35 Hz at -6 dB), lower than the Evo 4.2 (48 Hz at +/- 3 dB, 45 Hz at -6 dB).
None as bad as the KEF LS 50 with 79 Hz at -3 dB - when I heard those at a store, it was obvious that they need a subwoofer. 47 Hz at -6 dB, though, normally the -3 dB and -6 dB numbers are much closer.

 

[Tim van der Leeuw]

Wrong link?

That was the wrong link indeed... the right link is: http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm11/

But it seems you have already figured out their specs anyway

They get a very good review for flat sound reproduction on a Dutch site, and at 8 ohm with a mininum of 75 watts speaker recommendation I didn't expect a Ragnarok to pull that comfortably...

The Rubicon LCR, the lack of bass is indeed something. The Rubicon 2 had a better bas I thought, is only 4 Ohms, so Ragnarok would work, but is again more sensitive to placement.

The KEF LS50 -- I didn't yet listen to them myself but hear from many people that they are very strong in the treble, lacking in the bass. So I want to listen to the KEF R3 although again, I might not be able to place that in my room.

The ELACs look promising with their vent at the front, and if the Wharfedale Evo 4.2 is similar that should be an option too. I'll check it out.

In the meantime I'm building a playlist on Qobuz with music of a lot of different genres to see how well any speaker / amp combination will handle it.

Thanks for all your feedback!

 

[Tim van der Leeuw]

The Evo 4 series

The EVO4 series doesn't even seem to be out yet!? Due to be out July, or "this summer", but no mention of them yet on the Wharfedale website even, nor in any shop sites I've searched.

I'll keep an eye on them, and the ELACs, becoming available though.

 

[Alcophone]

The EVO4 series doesn't even seem to be out yet!? Due to be out July, or "this summer", but no mention of them yet on the Wharfedale website even, nor in any shop sites I've searched.

I'll keep an eye on them, and the ELACs, becoming available though.

Supposedly they showed them in May at the High End audio show. Music Direct and others are selling them already. Wharfedale said it should appear on their website soon as well.
Sep 25th: "The Evo 4.4 will go on the web site very soon."

 

[artur9]

One speaker I've heard (but sadly aren't budget) that sounded good and don't need a lot of room: Trenner & Friedl Sun (stereophile link)

They sounded clear and crisp. Not very loud in the room I heard them (maybe 20' x 10').

Do the Tannoys have that British sound?

 

[Derrick Swart]

I've recently bought a Jotunheim and it has already transformed my headphone-listening, but with that I'm desk-bound.

So now I want to transform my full-room stereo experience as well by getting some more schiit.

For the time being I want to hang on to my current speakers - they're old, but they were pretty high-end at their time and they have emotional value since they belonged to my grandfather.
It's a pair of BeoVox 1200 (https://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=435), they have a pretty low power output (15 Watts RMS) and 4 Ohms resistance.

Looking around the Schiit products list I feel that an Aegir might be a decent match, while also being able to drive other speakers when I upgrade in future. I'm still having a lingering doubt that the Ragnarok might be a better choice, despite having much more power than my speakers can handle, so I'm wondering what opinions are over here?

I'm also wondering with what pre-amp to pair the Aegir. I can use the Jotunheim which I already have, but I don't know how well they match.
So I'm also looking at a Saga S, or Saga+. The Freyas seem too expensive for my current budget, especially since getting a new pre-amp for the Aegir also means that I'll have to get a DAC as well. (The Jotunheim has a DAC card built-in).

So what do people here think? Would such low-power speakers be better matched with an Aegir, or with a Ragnarok?
Would a Jotunheim be a good pre-amp for an Aegir? Or better to go for one of the Sagas?

first try with your jothenheim, if you’re happy it is good

 

[wout31]

I'm now one week into my double Aegir adventure and I can say I like it very much. The former setting was double Vidar.
Two mono blocks is just, just, just enough to feed the hunger of the Quads that put a very difficult load on any amp and are low efficiency.
Just enough means I can play it just loud enough (low eighties dBs) without tripping the amps into protection. Sometimes I would like I had a little more, but Schiit is also protection my hearing this way, because I can't push it too far.

The sound is out of this world. I've read some people saying that Aegir is missing low in comparison to Vidar. I have no idea what their other gear is, but sometimes I find it difficult to tame the amounts of low coming out of Aegir. And the low is so detailed and powerful, very clear difference between string bass, electric bass, kick drum etc.
The whole imaging, placement, detail, all has improved significantly. These amps really kick ass.

So if @Jason Stoddard is thinking about a heavier version of the Aegir I will most certainly consider a pair. But it should be something like 300W per amp.
Not sure what price point that will bring, whether I can afford that and if I'm willing to pay more.

 

[Tim van der Leeuw]

Does anyone have an idea how Aegir compares to Ragnarok in SQ?

 

[terminatetrails]

Good comparisons here in a head to head listening session.
Final analysis- A=Vidar; B=Rag 2; C=Aegir

• A: Warm, thick, flat and boring. (First experience was fine, I thought it sounded good, but after comparing to the others, it started to lag behind.
• B: Deep soundstage placement (is this a Schiit amp?) Lows rich throughout to highs. Tone is dense. Also not written but discussed with others: delicate, subdued mids (or bold lows and structured highs).
• C: Upfront soundstage placement, but better layering. Mid-centric (compared to the others). Super immediate, emotionally involved, could hear the smoke from Ella Fitzgerald's throat.

 

[yonson]

So if @Jason Stoddard is thinking about a heavier version of the Aegir I will most certainly consider a pair. But it should be something like 300W per amp.
Not sure what price point that will bring, whether I can afford that and if I'm willing to pay more.

I'd definitely be in for a roided up Aegir! Double the current power would be nice, however what I would REALLY like is for it to be STABLE in a 4 ohm mono load without easily
going into over-current protection. I've even had this issue with Vidar in 4 ohm mono when pushing it really hard. Thermal is fine, they just pull too much current...

I'd imagine they would probably run in the $1500 range.