[sceleratus]

Quote:

Thank you very much for the answer. Otherwise I've already ordered a pair of ECC85 Siemens, do you think this is worse?

A note: Just because a valve has "ECC" in it's type classification, does not mean it is compatible.  Further, just because the pin assignments for heater, cathode, anode, grid and shield are the same doesn't make them compatible.
 
As you can see:
First image is an ECC88 pin out.
It's the same as the ECC85 that follows.
There are no issues with heater voltage / current.
 
ECC88
 

 
ECC85
 

 
The difference comes in the plate and grid specs.
They are wildly different.  As is µ
 
 

 

 
I don't recall reading a post where anyone else was using these in a Lyr.
Personally, I would not.

 

[sceleratus]

The Lyr will not deliver 230V to the anode.
EDIT:  Corrected graphs
 
 
 
 

 

 

[Rudiger]

Damn you're right!...I am disgusted, I do not even understand how I could be wrong as I thought I had checked. Hum if anyone here wants to buy me these now 

1000 thank you in any case, it seems you avoid very  unpleasant surprises me.

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

Damn you're right!...I am disgusted, I do not even understand how I could be wrong as I thought I had checked. Hum if anyone here wants to buy me these now 

1000 thank you in any case, it seems you avoid very  unpleasant surprises me.

No worries.  It's caught my eye and I though "is this ok?"
The Lyr has some "wiggle room" to operate "out of spec" valves without a problem.  Ex. PCC88 and... Correct me guys ECC89's
but I think the 85's are too far out and risk/reward curve is too steep to try.
 
There's so much good good conforming glass (and others validated by members) that I don't think it's necessary.

 

[Rudiger]

I totally agree, plus I already have a barbecue facilities in my backyard.

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

I totally agree, plus I already have a barbecue facilities in my backyard.

I don't think the Lyr would fry.  Rather, I think there wouldn't be enough juice to make the 85's work well.
Since the ECC88 valve has a max limit of 130V , I surmise there Lyr won't put out much more than that.
The ECC85's have a typical of 230V.  They would be greatly under powered.
 
Not trying to beat a dead horse here, I just like verbalizing this stuff not only for myself, but also to be corrected if I am wrong.
 

 

[Rudiger]

No horse mistreated here, the accuracy is very interesting.
So if I summarize at best the tube does not sound good, at worst it will damage the Lyr.

 

[mhamel]

Quote:

I don't think the Lyr would fry.  Rather, I think there wouldn't be enough juice to make the 85's work well.
Since the ECC88 valve has a max limit of 130V , I surmise there Lyr won't put out much more than that.
The ECC85's have a typical of 230V.  They would be greatly under powered.
 
Not trying to beat a dead horse here, I just like verbalizing this stuff not only for myself, but also to be corrected if I am wrong.
 

 
ECC85's not only work in the Lyr, they sound great.   Other people have used them in this thread, too.  I've probably got a dozen different ECC85s around here and they range from pretty good to downright excellent.
 
   -Mike

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

No horse mistreated here, the accuracy is very interesting.
So if I summarize at best the tube does not sound good, at worst it will damage the Lyr.

I don't see any damage to the Lyr since the pin assignments are the same.  anode, cathode, grid, etc.
 
Stuff that interests me.
I love writing this stuff because it reinforces it in my head.
 
A tube is really a "valve" for electrons.  Water...Turn a knob left more water flows. Turn right less flows.
 
It is a valve for electrons works as such.  Turn the "grid" to "less negative" voltage more electrons flow.  Increase the grid negative voltage fewer electrons flow.
There's a little screen component called the grid.
 
There are two sets of 3 components in every valve.  The ECC88 and the like are "Dual Triode" valves.  The ECC85 is also a dual triode valve.
Each triode is made up of a cathode an anode, a "heater" and a grid" for control.
The heater heats the cathode to a constant temperature.  When the cathode is hot it emits electrons.
The electrons flow through the vacuum to the anode (plate).  That's your "juice"
The grid screen controls the flow of the electrons from the cathode to the "plate"
The more negative voltage the grid screen has the fewer electrons are allowed to pass to the plate.
Hence the the mechanism is a "valve" for electrons and it was called that for many years.
 
Soooo  if you look at the negative grid voltage on the x axis of the ECC85 and keep in mind the Lyr transformer probably won't put out more than 130V to the plate (guess)
The ECC85 at typical grid voltage of -2V is only going to "see" 130V on the Plate from the Lyr transformer to attract electrons.  The plate current looks like 2 mA period.
It wants 230V.  If it had it it would produce about 10 mA when the grid is -2V
 
Extrapolating, plugging in an ECC85 into a Lyr would be a dud.  Like 6V to a bulb that wants 12V  It won't get very bright.

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

 
ECC85's not only work in the Lyr, they sound great.   Other people have used them in this thread, too.  I've probably got a dozen different ECC85s around here and they range from pretty good to downright excellent.
 
   -Mike

 
Amplifier circuits are "designed" around tube specifications.  The tube is part of the amplifier circuit like a resistor or a capacitor.  It is not an accessory.  The circuits operating points are calculated using all the components.  Change one value, another is effected.  It's like swapping a 2K2 ohm 1W resistor with a 2K2 ohm 1/4W resistor.  There are big consequences.   Perhaps a 10µf cap to a 15µf isn't a big deal, but there are still consequences to the circuit.  Perhaps running an ECC85 works fine, but the circuit is operating differently and probably out of spec.
 
I am glad you like them.

 

[Overwerk]

does anyone know if tubes are supposed to have little things moving inside them when you shake them besides your ears? I have heard it in one of my pair of telefunkens, and one of my pair of a frame oranges. I probably will hear them if I check more tubes. But I only checked because I accidently dropped the oranges on my table from hand height and then on to my lap. 
 
 
I can't see anything moving,

 

[HPiper]

Quote:

does anyone know if tubes are supposed to have little things moving inside them when you shake them besides your ears? I have heard it in one of my pair of telefunkens, and one of my pair of a frame oranges. I probably will hear them if I check more tubes. But I only checked because I accidently dropped the oranges on my table from hand height and then on to my lap. 
 
 
I can't see anything moving,

No, there shouldn't be anything moving inside your tubes ever. Either test them or toss em. It is very easy to damage a tube, easier than you might think.

 

[mhamel]

Yes, I am fully aware of that. I believe Jason mentioned as well that they are fine in the Lyr, and I'm not the only one that has liked them.

-Mike

Amplifier circuits are "designed" around tube specifications.  The tube is part of the amplifier circuit like a resistor or a capacitor.  It is not an accessory.  The circuits operating points are calculated using all the components.  Change one value, another is effected.  It's like swapping a 2K2 ohm 1W resistor with a 2K2 ohm 1/4W resistor.  There are big consequences.   Perhaps a 10µf cap to a 15µf isn't a big deal, but there are still consequences to the circuit.  Perhaps running an ECC85 works fine, but the circuit is operating differently and probably out of spec.


I am glad you like them.

 

[sceleratus]

Often it's hard to convey a feeling in a post.  I think that was one.
I am genuinely glad that the ECC85's work and sound great.
 
I was just going through an exercise that I should have kept to myself.  Note the disclaimer I attache to every post.

 

[TonyRS]

Quote:

Quote:

Thank you very much for the answer. Otherwise I've already ordered a pair of ECC85 Siemens, do you think this is worse?

A note: Just because a valve has "ECC" in it's type classification, does not mean it is compatible.  Further, just because the pin assignments for heater, cathode, anode, grid and shield are the same doesn't make them compatible.
 
As you can see:
First image is an ECC88 pin out.
It's the same as the ECC85 that follows.
There are no issues with heater voltage / current.
 
ECC88
 

 
ECC85
 

 
The difference comes in the plate and grid specs.
They are wildly different.  As is µ
 
 

 

 
I don't recall reading a post where anyone else was using these in a Lyr.
Personally, I would not.

Hero of the day!