Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread

[OldSkool]

RB just hit it out of the park! Thank you for that well-written description, my friend!

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

RB just hit it out of the park! Thank you for that well-written description, my friend!

Thanks for the compliment!  This is what does it for me, and everyone's different.  But after going through so much audio equipment (one time I had an almost SOTA system), you learn what does it for you and what doesn't.
 
Nice part you can get this without spending too much money!
 
We live in wonderful audio times...

 

[kothganesh]

RB just hit it out of the park! Thank you for that well-written description, my friend!

^2. I'll second that. Great job Bob and you know you have a new convert

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

Yeah, it's pic number 12

Why are the pics so small?
They should be 1200 px on the long edge.

 

[rb2013]

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^2. I'll second that. Great job Bob and you know you have a new convert

Much appreciated! 

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

Why are the pics so small?
They should be 1200 px on the long edge.

That I don't know.  I thought you might have compressed them.  The ones I emailed over were pretty large, about 2 MB each.  Not to familiar with the drop box thing.  I just copied them over to my hard drive from the drop box (cut and paste).  Maybe I should have done it differently.

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

Why are the pics so small?
They should be 1200 px on the long edge.

I did this one as a "Save Image As", I think it worked better!
 

 

[CraftyClown]

Quote:

 
We live in wonderful audio times...

 
We really do 

 

[Sanlitun]

I received two pairs of tubes in the mail today, some Brimar 6BQ7A'a and some 1975 6N1P Voskhod gold grids.
 
I'm doing a quick listen with the 6N1P's and I have to say i'm impressed. Much much better than I had expected.

 

[mhamel]

Quote:

I received two pairs of tubes in the mail today, some Brimar 6BQ7A'a and some 1975 6N1P Voskhod gold grids.
 
I'm doing a quick listen with the 6N1P's and I have to say i'm impressed. Much much better than I had expected.

 
Can't stress this enough on the Brimar 6BQ7A tubes... give them plenty of burn-in before passing judgement on the sound.   When I first bought these, I rolled them in and thought they were awful.   Other people have had the same experience.   After only 7-8 hours there was a noticeable difference in sound quality, and after a couple of days of use they really settled in well.   They are excellent sounding tubes once burned in.
 
   -Mike

 

[NightFlight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rb2013 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
The other big thing for me is dynamics, not the obvious macro variety (loudest to softest volume).  But the micro kind, how quickly can the waveform be created and still have a natural decay.  You hear this on guitars and piano really well. 
 
These things are what define great audio, and lead to that captivating effect.  I've found they are really important regarding headphone listening, especially in recreating the sound field.
 
I should also mention tone.  Natural, rich tone is also so critical.  Thin, weak sounding tone robs the other information - the natural reverberation and overtones that make for pleasing audio.  Tubes excel here, IMHO, but in the solid state world MOSFET transistors come really close, with many other positive attributes, like deep, tight bass, etc...
 
Once you hear it, there is no going back.

 
My older brother is the hard core audiophile I owe my ear to.  What you say above is his basic rant/preach.  Detail detail detail.  Now I'm stuck on this cursed quest as well....
 
These days he's at the point where he mods either cheap or expensive equipment alike to make it perform the way he wants. The thing about electronics I've learned from him is that every part of the chain affects the signature and detail slightly. Generally not for the better. Every solder junction, every component, every connector. Micro detail is lost cumulatively throughout. The emf field surrounding the signal interferes with itself en route through the circuit, so those sorts of fixes are part of the equation. Then there is component selection.  Vibration potentially could jostle the emf to create more interference, so that can be damped as well.  He's got a few other simple tricks, but he keeps those cards close to his chest so I can't comment. He really should be building amps.
 
Initially I laughed when I saw he tossed his Belles Research 450 in favour of a tiny old beat up peice-of-junk-seen-better-days Kenwood amp. Wish I had a picture.... Then I gave it a listen. Never heard anything like that. I kept imagining I could see it. Weird, but there you have it.  The freak of nature Kenwood is modded out the wazoo and could blow up any minute, but it shows me its not about money.
 
I've tried going to live performances, but all I hear is PA systems set up in a flash in the wrong room and it generally sucks.
 
But I digress... Back to tubes and headphones.

 

[john57]

Just go to [size=11pt]unamplified[/size] concerts is what I do and hate many PA systems and they can not even do voices correctly.

 

[NightFlight]

Well, I did it again. I let a new tube get the better of me. I've let things settle in. I did some very quick hot swapping (in that my fingers got hot).  My signature has been updated to reflect my preference for detail revealing tubes. The Voshkod is in my top 5 and bumped the Mullard ECC88.  Lorenz SEL got bumped up to #2 from 4.
 
The Voskod weakness is immediately evident in the big room reverberant bass recordings. A bit flabby as a result. Gritty and uneven gain across spectrum. I don't think I actually like it. Perhaps I'm just manic... but it rubbed me the wrong way after going back and forth quickly the other tubes we've been lauding over the last few months.
 
This was all done with 30 second listen and power down. Wait. Switch. Power up. Wait 1 min. Listen to same track. Repeat.
So take with a grain of salt, the tubes didn't even get a warm up. All I used was their raw initial impression including Signature, Space, Placement and Detail. The short interval allowed me to do real comparisons with real take away.
 
Like I said, the Cca gray plate is an absolute no brainer.  Its miles above my #2 top tube.  Looks like July 29th will bring me the CV2493 and I'm holding out hope for it. I don't feel as thought I've reached any holy grail, but the Cca has me enjoying music again at the very least.

 

[rb2013]

NightFlight
 
>These days he's at the point where he mods either cheap or expensive equipment alike to make it perform the way he wants. The thing about electronics I've learned from him is that every part of the chain affects the signature and detail slightly. Generally not for the better. Every solder junction, every component, every connector. Micro detail is lost cumulatively throughout. The emf field surrounding the signal interferes with itself en route through the circuit, so those sorts of fixes are part of the equation. Then there is component selection.  Vibration potentially could jostle the emf to create more interference, so that can be damped as well.  He's got a few other simple tricks, but he keeps those cards close to his chest so I can't comment. He really should be building amps.
 
Initially I laughed when I saw he tossed his Belles Research 450 in favour of a tiny old beat up peice-of-junk-seen-better-days Kenwood amp.<
 
 
Yes, it all makes a difference!  I cover the inside of all my DACs, Phono Pre-amp, Tuner, Amps, USB interfaces, Servers with ERS shielding: http://www.tweekgeek.com/stillpoints-ers-rfi-killer/
 
I've had good success with Ceraball pucks, and Synergistic Research MIGs for vibration control.
 
I love vintage audio gear, Especially Kenwood!  He likely re-biased the amp into class A.
I bought a mint Kenwood KT-917 tuner, built like a tank.  Then sent it to Radio X for a complete moding - all new caps, silver wire, SOTA opamps, IEC connector, Cardas jacks, alignment, cleaning and tuning.  It cost $600 on Ebay, I spent another $700 on mods!  It rocks!!  The sound on a good station that doesn't compress (like Seattle KING FM) is amazing - CD quality!  Plus it just looks so cool, lots of big knobs to play with! 
 

 
 
 
 

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

Well, I did it again. I let a new tube get the better of me. I've let things settle in. I did some very quick hot swapping (in that my fingers got hot).  My signature has been updated to reflect my preference for detail revealing tubes. The Voshkod is in my top 5 and bumped the Mullard ECC88.  Lorenz SEL got bumped up to #2 from 4.
 
The Voskod weakness is immediately evident in the big room reverberant bass recordings. A bit flabby as a result. Gritty and uneven gain across spectrum. I don't think I actually like it. Perhaps I'm just manic... but it rubbed me the wrong way after going back and forth quickly the other tubes we've been lauding over the last few months.
 
This was all done with 30 second listen and power down. Wait. Switch. Power up. Wait 1 min. Listen to same track. Repeat.
So take with a grain of salt, the tubes didn't even get a warm up. All I used was their raw initial impression including Signature, Space, Placement and Detail. The short interval allowed me to do real comparisons with real take away.
 
Like I said, the Cca gray plate is an absolute no brainer.  Its miles above my #2 top tube.  Looks like July 29th will bring me the CV2493 and I'm holding out hope for it. I don't feel as thought I've reached any holy grail, but the Cca has me enjoying music again at the very least.

 
Well I had lots of Seimens CCas, Some S&H that came in the factory Orange and Blue Rohre box (still have the box), some Lorentz, gray shields and silver shields.  When I did a very extensive comparison with the Voshkod Rockets - the S&H CCa gray shield was better, but not by as large a margin as your hearing, the Lorentz and the silver shield CCas were not as good.
 
When a S&H CCa gray failed from a beautiful matched pr - it was like a dagger to my heart!  I put the Voshkods into my DAC and amps, and really didn't miss the CCas, so I sold the collection and used the money for part of the funds for a really nice DAC.
 
I guess it all depends on one's ear and equipment.  You are amassing a really nice collection of these tubes - are you going to try the Amperex 'Pinched Waists'?  I saw Brent Jesse had a pr for sale.  I never heard them, but many say they are the very best of the best.  Always curious about them.
 
One note on the Voshkods they do take a while to breakin fully - around 150-200 hrs.  Like most equipment they go through this weird break-in.  First they sound pretty good, but closed in, then they open up and sound great.  For some reason they then get worst for around 50-60 hours!  Frustrating as all hell.  But gradually they get better, then better and better. Finally they are just as sweet as can be.  The Lyr did the same for me on breakin - it's now fully broken in and sounding great (around 500 hours)!   Liking it better then the Woo WA6-SE, much quicker and livelier, the Woo is a little boring in comparison.   Can't wait to crack the Lyr open and start a few mods
 
Also you should wait for approximately 3-4 minutes before listing to the tubes.  The anode takes awhile to heat up to start emitting electrons, so the tube won't sound right, and the MOSFETs running in class A need a little time to heat back up, the caps to charge, and so on.
 
This is how I compare all equipment - I have three or four tracks that I know by heart.
One has all kinds of detail and incredible bass notes (must be close to 20Hz)  David Gray - Please Forgive Me.
One has incredibly subtle vocals and rich guitar and clarinet harmonics - Joni Mitchell - Down to You (also lots of emotion - does it connect with me emotionally)
One has just great sound staging - mind blowing on headphones, also great bass - Florence and the Machine - Dog Days Are Over.
 
I do one round with only two tubes on each.  Then pick the best sounding tube and then do the same for the next tube.  After awhile using the same tracks you'll know what sounds good and what doesn't
 
NOW REALLY IMPORTANT!  You must clear your Eustachian tubes!  These are ducts that balance the air pressure on the inside and outside of the eardrum.  If the pressure doesn't match the music will sound muffled!  I clear mine by holding my nose and GENTLY blowing with my mouth closed (like when your clearing your ears on an airplane).  With practice you will only use enough pressure to clear the pressure differences.  Don't do this if you have a cold or allergies or any other blockage in the ears (swimmers ear, etc), and do it slowly and stop if you have any pain what's so ever.  But you shouldn't be doing this kind of audio evaluation if you have a cold!   Please consult your doctor before trying.
 
Now your ready to clearly hear the details!