Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread

[rb2013]

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I worked on a bunch and they are in the dropbox

I will check - do I need a login and password?  It looked like it prompted me for it when I tried to put the pics there.

 

[rb2013]

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OK, I've finally made a decision.
 
A/B comparisons are not easy, there's a lot of work involved, and these tubes are really closely matched.
 
But I'm going with the Orange Globes.
 
The bass heft and slam was slightly better in the OGs than in the RTCs, but I found that the difference wasn't nearly as pronounced as I originally thought.  Maybe the RTCs burned in a bit more, maybe it took more critical listening to hear the difference clearly, I'm not sure.
 
The soundstage was better with the RTCs. It was more three dimensional than with the OGs, but that difference was also less pronounced that I originally thought.  In fact, going through this exercise has given me new appreciation of the OGs soundstage! The soundstage of the OGs is not quite as  "intimate" as I had believed.
 
I'd say that the high frequency reproduction was superb with both pairs of tubes,  if I had to decide based solely on the treble, I would still be agonizing on which tube to pick, I don't think I could ever call one really better than the other.
 
What tipped the scales in favor of the OGs was that sweet, sweet midrange.  The midrange of the OGs was fluid and mellifluous, but never bloated or bloomy.  The RTCs had nice midrange also, to be sure.  But the mids on the OGs were just better.
 
I hope I don't have to do this again for a while at least.  I'd much rather just relax and listen to music!
 

   

  (We really need an LCD-2/3 Smilie!)

This may help - from the www.tubeworld.com website.  There is pretty good description of most of the Amperex 6DJ8/6922s
 
 

[size=200%]The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made[/size] (SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)

 

6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo 6922

CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)

CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's 6922

Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better) 6922

Amperex Holland branded Amperex or Philips Miniwatt or Mullard Holland or Philips

Holland "SQ" 1960's 6922

Mullard 1960's CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's

6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972 GB-6922

Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's 6922

Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's

6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)

 
The 5th best sounding (Philips Holland SQ Halo getters) were beat handily by the silver shield Voshkods on my system, at least according to my ears...  From my experience none of the orange print or globes were as good as the top tubes listed here.  They tend to suffer from a bit of rolloff in the highs - or a bit closed in.  The white print Amperex's PQ (Holland) are the best, of course after the legendary Amperex pinched waists.

 

[kothganesh]

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This may help - from the www.tubeworld.com website.  There is pretty good description of most of the Amperex 6DJ8/6922s
 
 

[size=200%]The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made[/size] (SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)

 

6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo 6922

CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)

CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's 6922

Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better) 6922

Amperex Holland branded Amperex or Philips Miniwatt or Mullard Holland or Philips

Holland "SQ" 1960's 6922

Mullard 1960's CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's

6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972 GB-6922

Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's 6922

Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's

6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)

 
The 5th best sounding (Philips Holland SQ Halo getters) were beat handily by the silver shield Voshkods on my system, at least according to my ears...  From my experience none of the orange print or globes were as good as the top tubes listed here.  They tend to suffer from a bit of rolloff in the highs - or a bit closed in.  The white print Amperex's PQ (Holland) are the best, of course after the legendary Amperex pinched waists.

Sigh, you had to do this. I have nothing that's on this list. So next steps are obvious

 

[rb2013]

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Sigh, you had to do this. I have nothing that's on this list. So next steps are obvious

Sorry meant to include this list as well (don't know why tubeworld lists these seperate)
 

The Best Sounding 6DJ8=ECC88 ever made are:

 

6DJ8 Siemens West Germany 1960's (nothing beats this tube; accurate, open, focused, detailed, airy, tight bass)

6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland "D" getter 1950's (superbly musical 6DJ8, nice articulate bass, 3D sound)

6DJ8 Telefunken West Germany 1960's (a little bass shy, but superbly smooth and listenable long term)

6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland 1960's

6DJ8 Amperex Holland 1960's and Amperex Holland Globe Logo late 1960's - mid 1970's (some are branded Philips Miniwatt)

CV5358=6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (smooth, good bass, the older versions are the best)

6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (either branded Mullard or Philips or Amperex Great Britain)

6DJ8 Sylvania late 1960's - mid 1970's (excellent sound for the money, best value)

6DJ8 GE USA 1960's - 1970's (good value)

 
The pincheys and the gray CCa are the best of the best!  Buy some Voshkods - they're only $20...would really like to hear your comparisons.  If you want I'll sell you a pr of 1980s silver shields, fully tested and matched, for the $20 and $5 for shipping.  This way you don't have to deal with Russian tube dealers...if you don't like'em send them back to me (I'll refund the $20 not the shipping).

 

[rb2013]

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I will check - do I need a login and password?  It looked like it prompted me for it when I tried to put the pics there.

I found them - thanks!  I'll repost with descriptions tomorrow

 

[kothganesh]

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...........
 
The pincheys and the gray CCa are the best of the best!  Buy some Voshkods - they're only $20...would really like to hear your comparisons.  If you want I'll sell you a pr of 1980s silver shields, fully tested and matched, for the $20 and $5 for shipping.  This way you don't have to deal with Russian tube dealers...if you don't like'em send them back to me (I'll refund the $20 not the shipping).

Hey thanks. I'll take you up on your offer. I'll send you a PM.

 

[hedphonz]

is this the correct voskhod's  that you guys are talking about on here ?
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Tube-NOS-1983-same-codes-VOSKHOD-Freeshipping-/321135485407?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac52aa1df
 
thought they would be a good choice for my first dabble into rolling as there cheap and have good reviews

 

[sceleratus]

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I found them - thanks!  I'll repost with descriptions tomorrow

I did not see the shiny shields.
Do you have one of those?

 

[BobJS]

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I've got boxes filled with tubes all around...they get used to it...after about 10 years!  It's the boxes filled with cables they really can't stand :-0

 
That's funny.  I had cables laying all around.  My wife wasn't happy until she put them all in boxes!

 

[GrindingThud]

I'll let you know when they come in.   
 
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Whaat?   How do they sound?

 

[rb2013]

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That's funny.  I had cables laying all around.  My wife wasn't happy until she put them all in boxes!

Maybe it's not the cables and tubes, but the Boxes that are the problem.

 

[rb2013]

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is this the correct voskhod's  that you guys are talking about on here ?
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Tube-NOS-1983-same-codes-VOSKHOD-Freeshipping-/321135485407?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac52aa1df
 
thought they would be a good choice for my first dabble into rolling as there cheap and have good reviews

I can't tell from the picture.  The one's I'm referring to have a long shinny silver shield running up to a post that hold the getter. 
 
If you want a I pair, I'll extend my offer to you that I made before: $20 plus $5 shipping for a 1980s matched pr with silver shinny shields.  Tested and matched on my Sencor tester.  If you don't like them you can send them back to me for a refund of the $20.  Just send me a PM.  I am not a tube dealer or in the audio business at all - just want to share the joy I've found in these marvelous tubes - and hear what other folks think of them.  My handle on Audiogon is RB99 - long illustrious feedback.
 
Think of me as the 'Johnny Apple Seed' of vintage Russian 6N23s!
 
Silver shield on the left vs Gray shield on the right.

 
PS Thanks sceleratus for the improved pics!

 

[rb2013]

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I did not see the shiny shields.
Do you have one of those?

Yeah, it's pic number 12

 

[NightFlight]

This may help - from the www.tubeworld.com website.  There is pretty good description of most of the Amperex 6DJ8/6922s

[COLOR=FF0000][SIZE=200%]The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made[/SIZE][/COLOR] (SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)

 

6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo 6922

CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)

CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's 6922

Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better) 6922

Amperex Holland branded Amperex or Philips Miniwatt or Mullard Holland or Philips

Holland "SQ" 1960's 6922

Mullard 1960's CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's

6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972 GB-6922

Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's 6922

Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's

6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)

The 5th best sounding (Philips Holland SQ Halo getters) were beat handily by the silver shield Voshkods on my system, at least according to my ears...  From my experience none of the orange print or globes were as good as the top tubes listed here.  They tend to suffer from a bit of rolloff in the highs - or a bit closed in.  The white print Amperex's PQ (Holland) are the best, of course after the legendary Amperex pinched waists.

With the OGs I find myself turning up the volume, straining four detail. Their fun, but a hair shouty. IMHO w/my rig. Then again, I haven't put them back in since before my DAC uber upgrade.

 

[rb2013]

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With the OGs I find myself turning up the volume, straining four detail. Their fun, but a hair shouty. IMHO w/my rig. Then again, I haven't put them back in since before my DAC uber upgrade.

Funny thing about detail, you don't know what your missing.  In other words, it's not what your hearing, but what's left out.  Until you experience the 'missing' information, you're really unaware it exists.  The 'air' people speak about is the ambient clues that the lowest level of detail transmits.  That is why the power supply (linear, regulated, choke filtering, etc...) in audio equipment is so important, it removes the grunge that masks the detail.
 
This detail shows itself in obvious ways, like the light cymbal taps in the background, guitar string overtones, etc...  In somewhat obvious ways, like being able to clearly hear individual instruments in the mix, etc.   But after years of listening to good audio equipment, it's the non-obvious things, like the subtle ambient clues that project the holographic natural sound stage.  The projection from each instrument into a three dimensional space, not just the obvious front wave (which is loudest) but the reflected back and side waves.  This is what produces that incredible realistic effect.
 
The other big thing for me is dynamics, not the obvious macro variety (loudest to softest volume).  But the micro kind, how quickly can the waveform be created and still have a natural decay.  You hear this on guitars and piano really well. 
 
These things are what define great audio, and lead to that captivating effect.  I've found they are really important regarding headphone listening, especially in recreating the sound field.
 
I should also mention tone.  Natural, rich tone is also so critical.  Thin, weak sounding tone robs the other information - the natural reverberation and overtones that make for pleasing audio.  Tubes excel here, IMHO, but in the solid state world MOSFET transistors come really close, with many other positive attributes, like deep, tight bass, etc...
 
Once you hear it, there is no going back.