Schiit Lyr 3 Tube rolling thread.....

[Hyde00]

Hey guys sorry for the later update, a fellow head-fi member let me tried some of his tubes and subsequently I bought some off him. I've had those tubes for about a month or two now? Figure I can give some update.

CBS 6SN7WGTA
This one is a shorter tube, and I kind of like how it looks LOL. It has good detail and layering and good tonal balance.



Pair of Sylvania 6J5GT (Round Plate)
Now the word on the street is that if I want to supercharge the Lyr 3, go twin tube. And I have to say Lyr 3 is already a wide sounding amp, and this makes it sound wiiiiddddddddeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Though I haven't tried that many twin tube on it yet, I figure I'd go Sylvania first since I already like the Sylvania 6SN7GT for single tube. Though there could be better twin tube out there.



Here I'm using a twin adapter I got from ebay, that's why it's not lining up to the orientation. I've been told I could probably rotate them 20-30 degrees, but this looks more like it's off by 45 degrees so I'm still not too sure how I'll go about it yet. Might attempt to give it a try later see if I can line it up.

Otherwise if you order adapter from Deyan I think it might be more aesthetically pleasing and line up to orientation lol.

 

[ConfuMaleTitis]

Went to TubeDepot and ordered a Ken-Rad VT-231 smoked glass - you know, the expensive one. They've had it listed at the same price for many months while others have recently raised prices due to demand. So I figured I'd get it from a "respectable" company before they weren't available anymore. A week later and it finally arrives - why the delay? It's a 2-day turn + 1 for getting it into a box but I waited a week. Noticed in the interim they are now listing it, "Out of stock".

So what do I get? A d*med Raytheon VT-231 they sell for $149.

Well call me a jerk but I'm a skeptic - some idiot threw that in a box because, well, they didn't want to have to go back and say, "oh sorry we don't have that anymore" and hoped that I'd well you know just it's OK. Isn't that how it works now? No really, it's the same as a Ken-Rad. Just as good. No big deal. Won't be a problem. Won't even notice.

I can tell you I will never buy from them again. I'm that guy. And in the meantime, I dropped it into my amp. Absolutely nothing about it that does anything for me. Heavy bass, very...uninspiring in every other way. Maybe the dynamics are a little more significant but my Sylvania, RCA, and Ken-Rad (clear glass) have lots more to offer. Even my EH is more pleasing.

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE RIP.

 

[Hyde00]

Went to TubeDepot and ordered a Ken-Rad VT-231 smoked glass - you know, the expensive one. They've had it listed at the same price for many months while others have recently raised prices due to demand. So I figured I'd get it from a "respectable" company before they weren't available anymore. A week later and it finally arrives - why the delay? It's a 2-day turn + 1 for getting it into a box but I waited a week. Noticed in the interim they are now listing it, "Out of stock".

So what do I get? A d*med Raytheon VT-231 they sell for $149.

Well call me a jerk but I'm a skeptic - some idiot threw that in a box because, well, they didn't want to have to go back and say, "oh sorry we don't have that anymore" and hoped that I'd well you know just it's OK. Isn't that how it works now? No really, it's the same as a Ken-Rad. Just as good. No big deal. Won't be a problem. Won't even notice.

I can tell you I will never buy from them again. I'm that guy. And in the meantime, I dropped it into my amp. Absolutely nothing about it that does anything for me. Heavy bass, very...uninspiring in every other way. Maybe the dynamics are a little more significant but my Sylvania, RCA, and Ken-Rad (clear glass) have lots more to offer. Even my EH is more pleasing.

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE RIP.

Damn that sucks to hear, could you ask for a refund at least?

Even though they wasted your time waiting and also now it's out of stock unfortunately.....

 

[ConfuMaleTitis]

Damn that sucks to hear, could you ask for a refund at least?

Even though they wasted your time waiting and also now it's out of stock unfortunately.....

They sent me a prepaid return label for me to ship back this Raytheon and THEN they give me a refund.

I will never shop there again. So I suffer the disappointment of their ineptitude, then I have to go out of my way to solve their problem by packaging and shipping it back, I wait and HOPE that this time they "magically" get things right and I get my $205 refund...all the while I'm what 6 weeks out of $205 while they jack me around?

Again, what do I get out of the deal?

Real customer service: Keep the Raytheon here's your refund, we blew it.

Well, I won't be buying from them again that's for sure. Ever. Definitely won't recommend them either. That's ...the very definition of terrible.

If I learned anything running a tech startup, you don't throw money at a losing proposition. When you lose, stop spending more to try and fix it. I watch Executives do this all the time and it's absurd. Pull the plug suck up the losses and move on. Right now I have a Raytheon tube that's probably really only worth about $110, but at least I have that. I'm gonna take an hour of my time, at my rate, to fix someone else's problem and hope to get my money back? Yea maybe (more likely than not) I do but still, what happens when I don't? Now I'm out $205 and I have nothing to show for it. At least right now I have the box and the tube I can share with someone who comes along later and says they really want it, and create a positive out of a sh!t show.

Not worth my time.

 

[ConfuMaleTitis]

Honestly I think at this point I've not found anything that blows me away, probably I just abort the Lyr+/ Burson game and go get McIntosh. I guess after 30 years of being a McIntosh customer I'm spoiled because...yea there are nice things about this but shopping tubes getting raped by BS vendors and playing this stupid game. I just want to listen to quality music and in my experience, yes McIntosh is expensive but...it's also stellar.

 

[ConfuMaleTitis]

Since I'm here and I paid $200+ for a Raytheon VT-231, and I'm resigned to wait a few months before I swap out my gear, how about some thoughts? That's why we're here, right? Ignoring what I end up paying for this tube...

First impression: Dynamics. Stands out beyond the other tubes I have, instantly. Of course, just plugged it in but...that I don't expect to change dramatically. Definitely hitting harder.

Also, the bass. Big huge bass. Others have said muddy, sluggish, tubey, too warm...yea that's not how my gear renders it. Some know I don't use the Lyr+ headphone jack, it's a preamp to a Burson 3XP and the Burson shines in this regard. Grado Statement cans are ...not as prominently low-end oriented (GS1000) so this actually sounds pretty good. Kind of like the 40s Sylvania VT-231 but without resonant frequencies around 150-200 Hz...so I don't have to touch my EQ. Actually sounds quite nice out of the gates.

Stage? Nonexistent, which was my first turn-off. Of course, staging is one of those things that, at least for what I've purchased and listened to, changes the most in time as a tube opens up so to speak. But the mids didn't have any sweetness at all. Not dull, just...nothing to write home about. The highs? Kinda of the same - nothing special.

That however to me is maybe a good thing. More versatile tube for me? Yea maybe - some cuts I can't really listen to on my Ken-Rad VT-231 sound pretty good right now on this tube, for example Sting or Phil Collins. If I pull back in those mid-highs that for my rig are harsh on those tracks, I lose the detail of violins and the sweet overtones of a Cello in my classical cuts. I lose the depth of a piano's texture. So the Ken-Rad definitely my tube for classical/ symphonic works, and acoustic jazz.

But maybe in time the Raytheon opens up and there is some sweetness in the mids lurking around the corner. Maybe she opens up stage-wise. It's been what 5 hours, a little more, and ..no it's not me, she has started to open up a little bit so that's maybe a good sign. Only my Sylvania sounded like that at first, though didn't change a lot so I can't help but wonder if somehow in the last 80 years that tube was used then reshelved. Only way to know really is with time...

This one though I think pretty clearly needs some burn-in...so I'll give it a chance while I work through the things I'll have to do in order to swap out my gear. Who knows, maybe I love it and end up not changing. I haven't for a reason - on some things, there is real magic here, but..it's not consistent enough and I'm not going to swap tubes every couple days because I listen to different things through the course of a 10-hour day. And yes I listen for many hours, casually and less critically but alas I'm resigned to spend time with this as that was my weekend off plan w/ the Ken-Rad I was supposed to get.

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise and the Ken-Rad smoked glass or black or whatever really is over-rated. Don't know, but there seems to be some potential in this one.

 

[Hyde00]

They sent me a prepaid return label for me to ship back this Raytheon and THEN they give me a refund.

Real customer service: Keep the Raytheon here's your refund, we blew it.

lol I feel like that's normal though...... most companies can't afford to take that hit unless they're huge corporations like Amazon or something.

I can't imagine TubeDepot being a very large company......

McIntosh is expensive but...it's also stellar.

lol I have not heard a Mcintosh yet but considering the price I would believe you.

But maybe in time the Raytheon opens up and there is some sweetness in the mids lurking around the corner.

I've only tried Raytheon 6J5WGT x 2. So this is most likely not apples to apples but I remember them being more neutral and not too rich in the mids? But layering and details were very good.

Also I've bought a few tubes recently and I always find it takes 3 ish days for tubes to open up. So you might need a bit more time.

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise and the Ken-Rad smoked glass or black or whatever really is over-rated. Don't know, but there seems to be some potential in this one.

I also like to think there are no coincidence in life, everything happens for a reason. The problem is that typically the reason might not be obvious right away, but it will explain itself in time......

On a side note, I have Ken-Rad 6J5GT x 2 on its way to me LOL. Looking forward to try my first Ken-Rad tubes, even though I'm generally a Sylvania kind of guy.....

 

[ConfuMaleTitis]

lol I have not heard a Mcintosh yet but considering the price I would believe you.

I could write a short story about how I discovered their gear, why I like it, etc. but not the thread for it. Don't know what their "newer" offerings are like. I've read on them but I'll reserve judgment until I hear for myself.

I've only tried Raytheon 6J5WGT x 2. So this is most likely not apples to apples but I remember them being more neutral and not too rich in the mids? But layering and details were very good.

Also I've bought a few tubes recently and I always find it takes 3 ish days for tubes to open up. So you might need a bit more time.

It's opening up for sure - at about 30 hours. Other VT-231 tubes I've tried, on the Lyr+, continue to change well past 100 hours. 30-40 is a hint of things to come. Some take more time like my Ken-Rad (see below)...other issue I have is the class A Burson I use changes if hot i.e. quiescent for awhile on a hot day. The lows seem to have pulled back a little, the highs a little more pronounced, and the stage a bit more forward.

Speaking of, the stage definitely opening up which was my hope. We'll see how that goes. Layering is actually really good especially for this early in the cycle.

Right now, still feels like a nice mix of an EH and a VT-231 Sylvania but we'll see.

EDIT: Wanted to note I came back to change this because 15m later with more listening just can't help but wonder if this isn't going to be the tube I leave in my unit most often. Does a really nice job rendering so many different things in very pleasing ways. Nothing blows my doors off, but everything sounds pretty good and for anything but hyper-critical listening or focus on a particular genre, this has that potential. Completely unexpected. But TubeDepot still blows. Don't treat people like that. Write an email and recommend it, don't just do it and pretend.

On a side note, I have Ken-Rad 6J5GT x 2 on its way to me LOL. Looking forward to try my first Ken-Rad tubes, even though I'm generally a Sylvania kind of guy.....

Do tell us about it - my Ken-Rad clear glass VT-231 took longer to settle than most. I also went through a couple little periods where it didn't sound great. What I like about it - the mids, the decay..airy, light, tremendous detail. Crap recordings sound like crap though, but very good ones sound wonderful. A better tube, to me, for classical/ symphonic/ acoustic stuff. Doesn't sound great w/ pop. The Raytheon at present tends to be a bit more forgiving across those different genres and recordings but it can't render the detail of the Ken-Rad acoustics, at least not yet.

 

[ConfuMaleTitis]

lol I have not heard a Mcintosh yet but considering the price I would believe you.

I had an MHA50 which I will comment on - I was pretty surprised at how good that thing sounded. Not, "traditional McIntosh" - in fact I think manufactured in China which isn't McIntosh at all. Doesn't mean it suffers, it's a PCB in a plastic case with a glass front which I hated, but I don't buy gear for volume controls and the looks, I buy it for fidelity. That thing had a classic McIntosh sound. How I don't know - the lows were deep and strong, tight and powerful, the mids had that sweet McIntosh sound and slightly recessed stage, the highs weren't harsh. How they did that in a small package, I don't know - probably stole some tricks from the Sabre $90 DAC (they don't publish what they use and I didn't cut the case open to try and find out, probably masked anyway)...but I'd bet they used simple filtering from past DAC work and knowledge of that chip and one of the many ways you can render with it. Sounded quite nice...I spilled a glass of water on my desk and the moisture got into the battery and a year later the battery expanded and cracked the volume control which rendered the unit unusable so...I tried a different path. Don't regret it - but for those that don't like the forward nature of the Lyr and/ or just decide the tube game isn't for them, that MHA50 as an amp + DAC and being portable...not bad at all.

 

[Fertamblez56]

Hello,

Is there any recommendation for a socket saver or should I just get the one from China called Amptata 8 pin octal socket saver?

I'm considering the Shugang CV181-Z or PSVANE CV181-T Mark II, or are these sidegrades to the PSVANE UK 6SN7?

Any info would be helpful, thanks.

 

[jonathan c]

Hello,

Is there any recommendation for a socket saver or should I just get the one from China called Amptata 8 pin octal socket saver?

I'm considering the Shugang CV181-Z or PSVANE CV181-T Mark II, or are these sidegrades to the PSVANE UK 6SN7?

Any info would be helpful, thanks.

For the socket saver, this (these) is (are) what I use with octal tubes such as 6SN7 and 12SN7:

 

[Hyde00]

For the socket saver, this (these) is (are) what I use with octal tubes such as 6SN7 and 12SN7:

Same here, I also have something similar and it's been working well.

 

[Hyde00]

Went to TubeDepot and ordered a Ken-Rad VT-231 smoked glass - you know, the expensive one.

My Ken-Rad 6J5GT arrived! Not sure how it compares to VT-231 but they do sound nice.

Still burning them in but so far already sound pretty good. It's about similar level to Sylvania 6J5GT just Sylvania is a bit sparklier and Ken-Rad a bit warmer and bassier.

I also realize all those tube all look the same from behind LOL.

 

[jonathan c]

My Ken-Rad 6J5GT arrived! Not sure how it compares to VT-231 but they do sound nice.

I have used Ken-Rad 6J5 pair (black metal) in a @Deyan adapter in Schiit Lyr 3 (not the +); versus single Ken-Rad VT-231, which is excellent in Lyr 3, there is deeper soundstage and more separation, ‘purer’ air between instruments and voices.

 

[kumar402]

Went to TubeDepot and ordered a Ken-Rad VT-231 smoked glass - you know, the expensive one. They've had it listed at the same price for many months while others have recently raised prices due to demand. So I figured I'd get it from a "respectable" company before they weren't available anymore. A week later and it finally arrives - why the delay? It's a 2-day turn + 1 for getting it into a box but I waited a week. Noticed in the interim they are now listing it, "Out of stock".

So what do I get? A d*med Raytheon VT-231 they sell for $149.

Well call me a jerk but I'm a skeptic - some idiot threw that in a box because, well, they didn't want to have to go back and say, "oh sorry we don't have that anymore" and hoped that I'd well you know just it's OK. Isn't that how it works now? No really, it's the same as a Ken-Rad. Just as good. No big deal. Won't be a problem. Won't even notice.

I can tell you I will never buy from them again. I'm that guy. And in the meantime, I dropped it into my amp. Absolutely nothing about it that does anything for me. Heavy bass, very...uninspiring in every other way. Maybe the dynamics are a little more significant but my Sylvania, RCA, and Ken-Rad (clear glass) have lots more to offer. Even my EH is more pleasing.

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE RIP.

Ken-Rad Clear Glass VT-231 is just as good as smoked one...