[franzdom]

I have graduated beyond stick on feet 

 

[Vigrith]

  I have just got my new HiFiMAN He-560! Maybe I should consider other brand dacs aswell.

 
My spouse owns the HE-560s, whilst I've not tried them with the Jotunheim yet nor ran comparisons I'd say they're definitely competent enough to warrant the Modi MB purchase. Though, as others have said, if you've never heard as multibit DAC and are satisfied with the way D/S sounds, the built in module one is great, it's considerably better than other 100-300 dollar DACs I've tried/owned. If you were to consider other brand DACs that outperform the inbuilt (and/or the Modi MB) I'd say there's no point looking into anything under like $500 as it'll not be a meaningful upgrade.
 
Obviously, YMMV, this is just from my experience and with the gear I had/have access to. Nowadays I'd not really bother buying any DAC that isn't by Schiit unless I'd be able to go into proper R2R ones like Metrum or Lampizator (not really within my budget).

 

[Jiggybutt]

   
That depends on how you define "best". The built-in DAC will give you convenience and portability- but it's USB-only and a fairly normal Delta/Sigma DAC. I haven't actually heard the built-in DAC-  I skipped it because I have a couple of more fancy choices, but there's a bit of me that sort of wishes that I'd grabbed it for convenience in retrospect. The DAC module is a pair of AK4490, running as a balanced configuration. I'm sure it sounds pretty good by the standards of the 4490, which is a pretty reputable DAC.
 
Various people have had issues with electrical noise down the USB connection, so be aware that noisy USB sources (cough, Macbooks) might not produce great results plugged in via USB, and require a decrapifier.
 
The Modi Multibit is a lovely DAC, it sounds a lot better than its $249 would have you believe. Everyone, including Schiit themselves I'm sure, would be pretty upfront about this being a better-sounding option compared to their D/S stuff, despite being SE. It's just that obviously it's a slightly more expensive option, and makes the unit less self-contained if you're likely to move it around.
 
So it's up to you- are you OK with the extra cost of the Modi Multibit? Are you without the convenience of the internal DAC? Would you prefer having the option of optical and co-axial S/PDIF inputs with the Modi Multibit? You could chose either or both, and still not be wrong, it's what suits you that matters.
 
If what you're actually asking is "what would sound best?", you'd probably find that the Modi Multibit would sound better.

 

   
My spouse owns the HE-560s, whilst I've not tried them with the Jotunheim yet nor ran comparisons I'd say they're definitely competent enough to warrant the Modi MB purchase. Though, as others have said, if you've never heard as multibit DAC and are satisfied with the way D/S sounds, the built in module one is great, it's considerably better than other 100-300 dollar DACs I've tried/owned. If you were to consider other brand DACs that outperform the inbuilt (and/or the Modi MB) I'd say there's no point looking into anything under like $500 as it'll not be a meaningful upgrade.
 
Obviously, YMMV, this is just from my experience and with the gear I had/have access to. Nowadays I'd not really bother buying any DAC that isn't by Schiit unless I'd be able to go into proper R2R ones like Metrum or Lampizator (not really within my budget).

 
Thank you for good and to the point input! I never even thaught about the different connections available in the multibit. That would however be the same in the Modi Uber. ATM I have the original Magni/modi stack, and how can I know if I'm satisfied with the S/D dac when it's both of them I hear? I just know I want more!
 
I will not be moving my stuff around witch makes stacking a Modi on top of Jot no problem at all.
 
Since all of you are so sure of that the multibit sounds better than Delta/Sigma, what are your thoughts about this guys review of the bifrost multibit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg
He does A/B testing on Bifrost Multibit vs a Delta/Sigma Emotiva XDA 2, and claims that he cannot hear any possible difference.
Is the Emotiva XDA 2 just a really good d/s dac? Is he full of ****?(pun intended) Does he have bad hearing? What does all of you here hear that he doesn't?
 
Note that I'm not questioning anyones opinion/hearing, just a curious newbie trying to get my head around this!

 

[Currawong]

Some people will be sensitive to subtle differences, some people wont be. Sometimes it is the music they listen to or the quality of it. Someone who listens to high-quality recordings of piano or violin may be more sensitive to these things than someone who listens to electronica for example. Some people will have the opposite opinion about which is better. You'll get every opinion under the sun. It is the result of discussion of what amounts to subtleties in an hobby that is exceedingly complex and has endless permutations of possibilities. 

 

[Allanmarcus]

 

   
That depends on how you define "best". The built-in DAC will give you convenience and portability- but it's USB-only and a fairly normal Delta/Sigma DAC. I haven't actually heard the built-in DAC-  I skipped it because I have a couple of more fancy choices, but there's a bit of me that sort of wishes that I'd grabbed it for convenience in retrospect. The DAC module is a pair of AK4490, running as a balanced configuration. I'm sure it sounds pretty good by the standards of the 4490, which is a pretty reputable DAC.
 
Various people have had issues with electrical noise down the USB connection, so be aware that noisy USB sources (cough, Macbooks) might not produce great results plugged in via USB, and require a decrapifier.
 
The Modi Multibit is a lovely DAC, it sounds a lot better than its $249 would have you believe. Everyone, including Schiit themselves I'm sure, would be pretty upfront about this being a better-sounding option compared to their D/S stuff, despite being SE. It's just that obviously it's a slightly more expensive option, and makes the unit less self-contained if you're likely to move it around.
 
So it's up to you- are you OK with the extra cost of the Modi Multibit? Are you without the convenience of the internal DAC? Would you prefer having the option of optical and co-axial S/PDIF inputs with the Modi Multibit? You could chose either or both, and still not be wrong, it's what suits you that matters.
 
If what you're actually asking is "what would sound best?", you'd probably find that the Modi Multibit would sound better.

 

   
My spouse owns the HE-560s, whilst I've not tried them with the Jotunheim yet nor ran comparisons I'd say they're definitely competent enough to warrant the Modi MB purchase. Though, as others have said, if you've never heard as multibit DAC and are satisfied with the way D/S sounds, the built in module one is great, it's considerably better than other 100-300 dollar DACs I've tried/owned. If you were to consider other brand DACs that outperform the inbuilt (and/or the Modi MB) I'd say there's no point looking into anything under like $500 as it'll not be a meaningful upgrade.
 
Obviously, YMMV, this is just from my experience and with the gear I had/have access to. Nowadays I'd not really bother buying any DAC that isn't by Schiit unless I'd be able to go into proper R2R ones like Metrum or Lampizator (not really within my budget).

 
Thank you for good and to the point input! I never even thaught about the different connections available in the multibit. That would however be the same in the Modi Uber. ATM I have the original Magni/modi stack, and how can I know if I'm satisfied with the S/D dac when it's both of them I hear? I just know I want more!
 
I will not be moving my stuff around witch makes stacking a Modi on top of Jot no problem at all.
 
Since all of you are so sure of that the multibit sounds better than Delta/Sigma, what are your thoughts about this guys review of the bifrost multibit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg
He does A/B testing on Bifrost Multibit vs a Delta/Sigma Emotiva XDA 2, and claims that he cannot hear any possible difference.
Is the Emotiva XDA 2 just a really good d/s dac? Is he full of ****?(pun intended) Does he have bad hearing? What does all of you here hear that he doesn't?
 
Note that I'm not questioning anyones opinion/hearing, just a curious newbie trying to get my head around this!

 
Hearing differences is a combination of a trained ear in the case of very subtle differences, gear, good hearing in general, and bias. Blind testing can remove the bias, but it's not easy to do blind testing by yourself. A good DAC or Amp shouldn't should be too much different, assuming "good" means accurate reproduction. At a certain level of quality, the variations between SS Amp, and even less so with DACs, becomes quite small. It's possible a person who doesn't have an extremely trained ear not to hear any difference. I know I can't hear too much difference between many of the DACs I have heard.
 
Tyll Hertsens said this about high end DACs during the "Bg Sound" headphone listening test:
 

I'm not going to individually mention the DACs because they all sounded very good, very similar, and were not the primary focus of the event. I just don't have much to say about them other than were I in the market for one of the three, I'd probably choose the Yggdrasil due to it's relatively low cost and good feature set...and it sounded punchy and dynamic to me, which I like.
Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-my-take-headphone-amps 

 
Now he referred to the Yggy as "relatively low cost" so you know he was listening to the expensive schiit!
 
It's quite possible the Emotiva sounded exactly the same as the multibit to that listener. He might not have good enough gear, hearing, or training to distinguish the subtle differences. And if he can't, he has one less piece of equipment to agonize over.

 

[Vigrith]

 
Thank you for good and to the point input! I never even thaught about the different connections available in the multibit. That would however be the same in the Modi Uber. ATM I have the original Magni/modi stack, and how can I know if I'm satisfied with the S/D dac when it's both of them I hear? I just know I want more!
 
I will not be moving my stuff around witch makes stacking a Modi on top of Jot no problem at all.
 
Since all of you are so sure of that the multibit sounds better than Delta/Sigma, what are your thoughts about this guys review of the bifrost multibit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg
He does A/B testing on Bifrost Multibit vs a Delta/Sigma Emotiva XDA 2, and claims that he cannot hear any possible difference.
Is the Emotiva XDA 2 just a really good d/s dac? Is he full of ****?(pun intended) Does he have bad hearing? What does all of you here hear that he doesn't?
 
Note that I'm not questioning anyones opinion/hearing, just a curious newbie trying to get my head around this!

 
Personally I don't see Z Reviews as a reliable source of information whatsoever - he says the Mojo is the exact same as his HA2 and that the Bifrost MB is the same as the Emotiva he owns. Either way, his opinion is not something I take into heavy (or any) consideration, though his reviews are decent enough for people who are just starting out and whatnot. Not discrediting his hearing, I just think some of the things he says are not what I consider to be within the realm of possibility at all.
 
It's hard to give advice on MB/R2R and DACs in general, if I were in your position (if budget allows) I'd give it a try to see whether or not you'll be able to hear a noticeable difference. I could, and still can, but I rather have one good, reliable, clean DAC as my source than have a ton of them - rather get a bunch of different amps instead (OTL, hybrid, SS), same goes for headphones, I've always found differences to be more pronounced there than with DACs. One thing Z Reviews believes in that I also agree with to some extent is that once you get a really good DAC then the curve really starts to smooth out; I just happen to draw the "really good DAC" line a lot higher than he does.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

  Since all of you are so sure of that the multibit sounds better than Delta/Sigma, what are your thoughts about this guys review of the bifrost multibit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg
He does A/B testing on Bifrost Multibit vs a Delta/Sigma Emotiva XDA 2, and claims that he cannot hear any possible difference.
Is the Emotiva XDA 2 just a really good d/s dac? Is he full of ****?(pun intended) Does he have bad hearing? What does all of you here hear that he doesn't?
 
 

 
Ah, Zeos  ... dude has serious beef with expensive DACs for some reason. He seems to appreciate nice amps and cans but always rags on pricier DACs. He is sort of in the minority on this issue. Most people here seem to think there are noticeable audible benefits from moving up the DAC food chain. For me though, a Modi multibit is probably about as good as I can appreciate. I'm using a Teac UD301 currently which has two delta/sigma Burr Brown 1795's and I think it sounds pretty darn good, better than my Uber Schiit Stack did. I avoid saying things like much better or way better because the differences were slight but they were there regardless. I doubt I would notice much of a difference between the Teac and a multibit bifrost but I also realize my ears aren't as picky as the guys who have been into this much longer than I have. As always YMMV. 

 

[Ancipital]

   
 
Thank you for good and to the point input! I never even thaught about the different connections available in the multibit. That would however be the same in the Modi Uber. ATM I have the original Magni/modi stack, and how can I know if I'm satisfied with the S/D dac when it's both of them I hear? I just know I want more!
 
I will not be moving my stuff around witch makes stacking a Modi on top of Jot no problem at all.
 
Since all of you are so sure of that the multibit sounds better than Delta/Sigma, what are your thoughts about this guys review of the bifrost multibit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg
He does A/B testing on Bifrost Multibit vs a Delta/Sigma Emotiva XDA 2, and claims that he cannot hear any possible difference.
Is the Emotiva XDA 2 just a really good d/s dac? Is he full of ****?(pun intended) Does he have bad hearing? What does all of you here hear that he doesn't?
 
Note that I'm not questioning anyones opinion/hearing, just a curious newbie trying to get my head around this!

 
The differences are smaller, it's true- it's nothing like the qualitative difference of getting much better transducers. The standard "wisdom" of transducer > amp > DAC is remarkably helpful. If your headphones are holding you back, or your amp, you probably can't hear the differences much, if at all. It's a useful way to think about priorities, though obviously you should always try to identify the "bottleneck" if something is annoying you.
 
Not all DACs are created equal- and a D/S DAC can still sound great, if well implemented. Two DACs based around the same chipset can be quite different, even, so it's a bit of a crapshoot.
 
What I would say is that R2R DACs generally test objectively as more accurate, and subjectively often win, with listeners who have learned to hear the harshness/brightness that you can sometimes get with D/S. Stuff like pianos (which are hard) and massed strings are often where I hear a bit of a difference, or particular cymbal sounds. I'd always found pianos sounding a bit more "off" in some way than I was happy with, and was never sure why. 
 
Anyway, a well-implemented D/S DAC won't make your head explode, but if you do ever learn to hear "digititus" (as some people playfully call it), you'll get antsy. My inexpensive chain is now good enough that I can hear DAC differences, between my Modi Multibit and Mojo, even. Hell, it's good enough that I can pick out lossless vs 256k AAC via blind ABX now, which I wish I couldn't. Damn Schiit for selling me an amp of a quality that I wasn't expecting to be able to afford!
 
Ultimately, I can't see that the Modi Multibit at $249 is anything less than remarkable, and couldn't honestly say that there's anything to touch it at the price. Conversely, the 4490 D/S DAC module for the Jotenheim seems not to have offended anyone- and it's a perfectly respectable chipset. At this point, I'd trust Schiit not make  a mess of implementation. As long as your USB sources are clean, you'd probably be fine with the internal module.
 
Of course, if you suffer EMI/ground loop issues down the USB connection, you may end up throwing a decrapifier (like the Schiit Wyrd) at it, at which point you lose the one box advantage, and the prices become a lot closer. It does appear that the on-board DAC option is a little more vulnerable to electrical noise than some of the external options. It's worth bearing in mind.
 
So, effectively, I'm saying "it depends", and unhelpfully leaving it up to you! If you were to ask me what I'd do, with the benefit of hindsight, I'd have got the DAC module with my Jotenheim as a nice travel option, and kept the Modi Multibit as well , as it's bloody lovely (and a minor miracle at the price). I had the Modi before I had the Jotenheim, though, so I was certainly assisted by inertia. However, that's just me, and your mileage really may vary. The good news is that you have some nice options.
 
Sorry that was a bit rambling, but I have tried to keep it honest, and not say "YOU MUST DO THIS OR YOU SMELL OF WEE". I'd be leaning towards the Modi Multibit just because it's lovely and you'll be spoiled by owning it at the price, but the world really won't end if you go the other way 

 

 

[Jiggybutt]

Oh, this is going to be a big big wall of quoting since all of you nice gents wrote so much good back to me!

  Some people will be sensitive to subtle differences, some people wont be. Sometimes it is the music they listen to or the quality of it. Someone who listens to high-quality recordings of piano or violin may be more sensitive to these things than someone who listens to electronica for example. Some people will have the opposite opinion about which is better. You'll get every opinion under the sun. It is the result of discussion of what amounts to subtleties in an hobby that is exceedingly complex and has endless permutations of possibilities. 

Yes, I see that different people hear different things.
 

   
Hearing differences is a combination of a trained ear in the case of very subtle differences, gear, good hearing in general, and bias. Blind testing can remove the bias, but it's not easy to do blind testing by yourself. A good DAC or Amp shouldn't should be too much different, assuming "good" means accurate reproduction. At a certain level of quality, the variations between SS Amp, and even less so with DACs, becomes quite small. It's possible a person who doesn't have an extremely trained ear not to hear any difference. I know I can't hear too much difference between many of the DACs I have heard.
 
Tyll Hertsens said this about high end DACs during the "Bg Sound" headphone listening test:
 
 
Now he referred to the Yggy as "relatively low cost" so you know he was listening to the expensive schiit!
 
It's quite possible the Emotiva sounded exactly the same as the multibit to that listener. He might not have good enough gear, hearing, or training to distinguish the subtle differences. And if he can't, he has one less piece of equipment to agonize over.

Haha calling the Yggy a low cost dac really shows where his reference point is! Thank you, I laughed out really loud! 
 
In case he can't hear the differences, that would be a "good for you"-moment. It's getting clear to me that there are diffenrences, but as you all say, they are getting smaller and smaller.
 
 

   
Personally I don't see Z Reviews as a reliable source of information whatsoever - he says the Mojo is the exact same as his HA2 and that the Bifrost MB is the same as the Emotiva he owns. Either way, his opinion is not something I take into heavy (or any) consideration, though his reviews are decent enough for people who are just starting out and whatnot. Not discrediting his hearing, I just think some of the things he says are not what I consider to be within the realm of possibility at all.
 
It's hard to give advice on MB/R2R and DACs in general, if I were in your position (if budget allows) I'd give it a try to see whether or not you'll be able to hear a noticeable difference. I could, and still can, but I rather have one good, reliable, clean DAC as my source than have a ton of them - rather get a bunch of different amps instead (OTL, hybrid, SS), same goes for headphones, I've always found differences to be more pronounced there than with DACs. One thing Z Reviews believes in that I also agree with to some extent is that once you get a really good DAC then the curve really starts to smooth out; I just happen to draw the "really good DAC" line a lot higher than he does.

   
Ah, Zeos  ... dude has serious beef with expensive DACs for some reason. He seems to appreciate nice amps and cans but always rags on pricier DACs. He is sort of in the minority on this issue. Most people here seem to think there are noticeable audible benefits from moving up the DAC food chain. For me though, a Modi multibit is probably about as good as I can appreciate. I'm using a Teac UD301 currently which has two delta/sigma Burr Brown 1795's and I think it sounds pretty darn good, better than my Uber Schiit Stack did. I avoid saying things like much better or way better because the differences were slight but they were there regardless. I doubt I would notice much of a difference between the Teac and a multibit bifrost but I also realize my ears aren't as picky as the guys who have been into this much longer than I have. As always YMMV. 

 
Yes, I've been looking at some of his other reviews now and can agree that he is not really top credibility. I just found it curious that someone had the total opposite experience than all the others and often by bringing that ones words into the discussion you get the best arguments and clarifications from those who oppose. And so I did! Thank you.
 
 
 

   
The differences are smaller, it's true- it's nothing like the qualitative difference of getting much better transducers. The standard "wisdom" of transducer > amp > DAC is remarkably helpful. If your headphones are holding you back, or your amp, you probably can't hear the differences much, if at all. It's a useful way to think about priorities, though obviously you should always try to identify the "bottleneck" if something is annoying you.
 
Not all DACs are created equal- and a D/S DAC can still sound great, if well implemented. Two DACs based around the same chipset can be quite different, even, so it's a bit of a crapshoot.
 
What I would say is that R2R DACs generally test objectively as more accurate, and subjectively often win, with listeners who have learned to hear the harshness/brightness that you can sometimes get with D/S. Stuff like pianos (which are hard) and massed strings are often where I hear a bit of a difference, or particular cymbal sounds. I'd always found pianos sounding a bit more "off" in some way than I was happy with, and was never sure why. 
 
Anyway, a well-implemented D/S DAC won't make your head explode, but if you do ever learn to hear "digititus" (as some people playfully call it), you'll get antsy. My inexpensive chain is now good enough that I can hear DAC differences, between my Modi Multibit and Mojo, even. Hell, it's good enough that I can pick out lossless vs 256k AAC via blind ABX now, which I wish I couldn't. Damn Schiit for selling me an amp of a quality that I wasn't expecting to be able to afford!
 
Ultimately, I can't see that the Modi Multibit at $249 is anything less than remarkable, and couldn't honestly say that there's anything to touch it at the price. Conversely, the 4490 D/S DAC module for the Jotenheim seems not to have offended anyone- and it's a perfectly respectable chipset. At this point, I'd trust Schiit not make  a mess of implementation. As long as your USB sources are clean, you'd probably be fine with the internal module.
 
Of course, if you suffer EMI/ground loop issues down the USB connection, you may end up throwing a decrapifier (like the Schiit Wyrd) at it, at which point you lose the one box advantage, and the prices become a lot closer. It does appear that the on-board DAC option is a little more vulnerable to electrical noise than some of the external options. It's worth bearing in mind.
 
So, effectively, I'm saying "it depends", and unhelpfully leaving it up to you! If you were to ask me what I'd do, with the benefit of hindsight, I'd have got the DAC module with my Jotenheim as a nice travel option, and kept the Modi Multibit as well , as it's bloody lovely (and a minor miracle at the price). I had the Modi before I had the Jotenheim, though, so I was certainly assisted by inertia. However, that's just me, and your mileage really may vary. The good news is that you have some nice options.
 
Sorry that was a bit rambling, but I have tried to keep it honest, and not say "YOU MUST DO THIS OR YOU SMELL OF WEE". I'd be leaning towards the Modi Multibit just because it's lovely and you'll be spoiled by owning it at the price, but the world really won't end if you go the other way 

 

Well, I've had some problems with the usb-connection already. I think I have sorted it out, but maybe it could get better. I've read about people who used usb and had the "meh"-feeling but later switched to spdif and got stunned by the difference. I have a good stationary computer, so the difference maybe not be that big for me, but it would be nice to have the option to go optic cable. 
 
I love your rambling, there is nothing to excuse! You have put some good and valid points witch are mostly objective! I think all of you have convinced me that the 150$ extra for the multibit is worth it, and I'll be pretty much safe from upgrading that in any foreseeable future.
 
I will most probably order the Jot tonight. Unfortunately Modi MB is out of stock at the europe distibutor, so I will have to wait for it. Maybe its a good thing, because I will upgrade in steps and that will make me appreciate it even more than getting all at once!
 
 
I just found this forum some days ago. Already love it! Thanks guys!

 

[jimmers]

Jot arrived today, only had FiiO X3 and Modded SHP9500 and modded T50RP at work - but still nice.
Home and it's now coax -> Bimby > Jot > HD650, short version - not disappointed.
 
I was only going to have a brief listen while I checked work and threads, that was 3 hours ago now. 

 

[Ancipital]

   
I love your rambling, there is nothing to excuse! You have put some good and valid points witch are mostly objective! I think all of you have convinced me that the 150$ extra for the multibit is worth it, and I'll be pretty much safe from upgrading that in any foreseeable future.
 
I will most probably order the Jot tonight. Unfortunately Modi MB is out of stock at the europe distibutor, so I will have to wait for it. Maybe its a good thing, because I will upgrade in steps and that will make me appreciate it even more than getting all at once!
 
 

 
Oh, cool- so at least I didn't just wall of text you to death. I hope you enjoy the Jot, and maybe the Modi MB too, if you do decide to get it. You're right that you might enjoy a gradual upgrade path- but if not, I have ordered a couple a things direct from Schiit in the US in the past (I'm UK-based), and found the process painless and quick.
 
Still, you're right, the shopping isn't the point, it's the listening and enjoying your music 

 

[ginetto61]

Hi !
sorry to jump in with a question maybe already answered along the thread. 
I tried to find some opinions but got lost. 
I wonder if anyone has tried it as a line preamp in a good stereo system and with what result. 
Unbalanced or balanced is fine for me.  
My best dac (a Gustard X20U) provides both types of outs.
Thanks a lot.
gino  

 

[Ggroch]

   
Hearing differences (in DACs) is a combination of a trained ear in the case of very subtle differences, gear, good hearing in general, and bias..... 

Yes!  although I would change  it to "Bias, gear, and good hearing" because unless you blind test bias is the biggest factor when differences are subtle.
 
My views on DACS are nearly exactly the same as Z-Reviews.    I think this DAC you-tube video is great.  His logic and explanations of the great DAC controversy are right on target. Note that  I have spent my entire adult life selling/training audio so am not the just starting out clueless newby described by an earlier post as the target audience for Z-reviews.  This does not mean that Z-reviews is right...just that audio-smart people believe this too. 
 
In particular...the reviewer's attempt to avoid reading about the supposed multi-bit advantage (drinking the kool-aid) before any comparative listening is great practice. And his description of the super high end audio culture ($40,000 DACS) are accurate
 
BUT....since the Z-reviewer and I already do not believe that differences between quality DACS are discernible....our biases in non-blind tests like this one would probably prevent us from hearing differences.   
 
My takeaway....when there are smart people on both sides of the do-dacs-matter issue then you certainly should not agonize over which well designed DAC to choose. (there is no do-headphones matter controversy)  
 
Buy the DAC within your budget that you like...and you will almost always like the sound.  Right up until you learn about a new DAC with breakthrough technology that you just gotta have.

 

[Vigrith]

  Note that  I have spent my entire adult life selling/training audio so am not the just starting out clueless newby described by an earlier post as the target audience for Z-reviews.  This does not mean that Z-reviews is right...just that audio-smart people believe this too. 

 
That was me, I was making a general blanket statement regarding his reviewing style and approach to equipment in general, I was not trying to imply anyone that agrees with anything he says is clueless and new, only that his videos tend to appeal and be more helpful to people who are still starting out.
 
I absolutely understand that someone knowledgeable as you are may also believe in that, and as said toward the end of my previous post I also agree with it to a certain extent - I just happen to draw the "really good DAC" line a bit higher than he does is all. 

 

[ColtMrFire]

Yes, confirmation bias works both ways.

I think it is a bit like the double slit experiment in quantum physics. Where the observed becomes a particle and a wave when its not. How can it be a wave and a particle at the same time? It defies reason. I think audio has objective qualities but is much more susceptible to bias of the observer, the bias working for or against... With sound WAVES being a specific thing (particle) in the mind of the listener or just a wave with no differences from other waves. Which is why you can have vastly different views about the same thing. Just my own theory, don't mean to derail the thread.