[the finisher]

cross-posted from the forum that shall not be named:
I've been dicking around with mid-fi stuff for about 2 years (like the mojo, etc) and bought and returned a lot of stuff. In reading reviews / posts I've perceived this "musical" experience others are having, but I wasn't ... and I wasn't sure if it's the gear, my ears, or my head.

Anyway, TLDR - the Jot setup I have now could be endgame for me because it's finally to the point where the music is emotional again: I can FEEL the kick drum or, with just a tad suspension of disbelief, believe Lou Reed is right in front of me. I don't know what others mean by "euphonic", but for me this is it. (of course I'll make sure by purchasing ever more spendy hi-fi gear, but whatever, let's stay on topic as i'm trying to make a point here).

(1.) Nice set of cans
The key was first getting the right headphones for me which are the TH-x00 and to a certain extent the HD-600 which I kind of use as a reference; everything sounds "better" on the HD-600s, but it's not as musical as the TH-x00. It can depend on the track and blah blah blah, but in general the Fostex are my jam-cans. I tried the AFC, 650s, B&W P9s, and lots of other sub-$1k cans and learned a lot, but those two are my keepers.

(2.) Make 'em bounce
The next thing was getting the right DAC/amp. I'll skip the details, but eventually I settled on the Mimby / Jotunheim.

(3.) Strap 'em in!
It wasn't until I added the Eitr AND good cables that the magic happened. At first I went with "cables don't matter", then "sort of, but not with my mid-fi stuff", then "feck it, I think cables matter. a lot." And at that point I added Audioquest golden gate RCAs, cinnamon spdif, and carbon USB. To be clear (pun intended), I tried a lot of cables. I tried flipping them around. I tried DBTs. Cable matter - if they don't for you, that's cool, but they sure do for me (please use the "science" forums for technical pontifications in disagreement - also note all spendy cables had min 30 day return policies and I did return some spendier cables, so there's no risk to trying them). And it's weird because when I critically listen it's not a huge thing, but when I emotionally listen it's a huge thing. It wasn't until the AQs were in place that I realized, "holy schiit. this could be end-game right here. I don't even need an yggy or whatever!" (note: I'm totally still getting an yggy. let's not be unrealistic here). Final bit of "synergy"? I dunno.

Here are songs that proved to me - the kind of tracks that you think, "holy Schiit, THIS. THIS."

- Perfect Day, Lou Reed - classic, intimate track to get things started
- My oh My, Punch Brothers - damn son! You'll forget you're not actually in the band by the end of this track
- Hot Butter, Nathy Peluso - holy sub-bass something just melted
- Big God, Florence + Machine - My wife for sure can never listen to this track, she's pissed enough
- Hit 'em Up Style, Carolina Chocolate Drops - this blue grass / folk remake of Blu Cantrell is awesome on youtube, watching the violin bowstring hair fry off, and this chick at 3m+ just blasts
- Tangerine, Rebecca Pidgeon - grab a cocktail, your best ascot, and watch the sunset
- Empty Temples, The Sword (Low Country) - pull up a hay bail to the fire, bring your guitar, and get ready to play melody
- Divine Moments of Truth, Shpongle - closest thing to a mushroom trip without mushrooms. By 30s you're hearing colors, and by 2m don't look at anybody! Snakes will crawl out of their eye sockets. I warned you.
- In the Mix (orig mix), Funk the Beat - turn out all the lights and grab a flashlight to jump around with but be careful - there's no predicting what your ass is gonna do with this track
- Last Night in Los Feliz, Niia - this chick will sing right through you on this track

Bonus track:
Back in the early 90s I was in NorCal and on Sunday mornings I used to go down to the ferry building area and there were these bleachers by the water and random people would show up with whatever instruments and just jam for hours. But always people with bongos. This track reminds me of that, and with the right system - whoa.

- Sangandongo, Niagra

MBP > Tidal Hi-Fi > AQ carbon > Eitr > AQ Cinnamon > Mimby > AQ Golden Gate > Jot > SE TH-x00 or Bal HD-600

More headphones coming, but not needed

Nice post, great music, glad you are enjoying your system.

 

[GrussGott]

I wanted to follow up on the noise issues when touching the volume knob at high volume, with only the power cord and a pair of headphones connected, gain set to high and the single ended inputs selected. I have experimented quite a bit when I had the Audioquest Niagara 1000 power conditioner on loan.

That's good info, I've been looking at the Furman PST-8 ...

Anyway, as previously posted I had your EXACT same issue, exact same symptoms. I'm assuming you've tried plugging your Jot directly into the wall with a high quality shielded power cord?

Here's my general troubleshooting strategy (which could be complete crap):

(1.) Do I have "hum" (low pitch) or "buzz" (high pitch)?

(2.) If it's buzz (like super loud mosquitos), then it's usually a ground loop which means the ground planes of your different devices (amp and dac likely) are at separate potentials. This where you can use cheater plugs to identify it because you're disconnecting from the AC wall socket ground with the cheater plug, but I wouldn't recommend that as a permanent solution

(3.) If it's hum, it's likely because you're close to a transformer that's radiating EMI which is getting into your inputs

In both of those cases I think YOU can be the input vector of the EMI or the change in ground plane potential by acting as an antenna - that's why I went with a high quality shielded power cable and interconnects: you want to keep the EMI from getting into the inputs. Then I plugged the Jot directly into its own wall socket and the digital side into a power strip and different wall socket on it's own circuit (i found two sockets on separate circuits close enough together to make this work). That killed all hum.

Unfortunately, IME, you have to just play around with different wall sockets to find what works, but my general recommendations are: high quality shielded power cord and interconnects, amp into it's own socket on it's own circuit if possible, digital into a separate circuit. I thought the PST-8 had that separation BTW ... in any event, my guess is your hum isn't from the wall, but from a nearby transformer radiating EMI into your system ... but I'm just makin crap up based on various experiments.

 

[Alcophone]

That's good info, I've been looking at the Furman PST-8 ...

It's probably a great surge protector, which is why have two of them, and a PST-8D. But I'm not convinced by its power conditioning abilities.

Anyway, as previously posted I had your EXACT same issue, exact same symptoms. I'm assuming you've tried plugging your Jot directly into the wall with a high quality shielded power cord?

Not really, I don't think I have a single shielded power cord. Mouser.com lists the 14 AWG Tripp-Lite cords I have, but filters them out when I select "shielded". Only a 2 m and 3 m long Volex cord remain (when looking for 14 AWG as well), but looking on their website, there's no indication that they actually are shielded. I now reached out to both Tripp-Lite and Volex to find out which of these is shielded.
Of course, once you go into audio specific power cords, there are quite a few shielded ones available, but also at higher prices. I couldn't hear a difference between a $10 Tripp-Lite power cord and a $750 Audioquest Thunder power cord, so I'm not eager to spend a lot more just to get shielding. Of course I'm still tempted by Pangea power cords... but they seem almost too cheap compared to the competition, and their talk of separate bass conductors makes me very skeptical.

In both of those cases I think YOU can be the input vector of the EMI or the change in ground plane potential by acting as an antenna - that's why I went with a high quality shielded power cable and interconnects: you want to keep the EMI from getting into the inputs.

But for this particular issue, the noise seems to be coming from me, so I guess I would have to be shielded, not my power cords. Maybe I should try wrapping myself in aluminum foil :-D
I do admit that I could try even more, though, like different outlets. To be continued, I suppose :-D Luckily this is not an issue I have in actual use. There is a faint buzz on max volume even when not touching the amp, but all of my headphones are way to efficient to require going past 12 o'clock - even that would be high.

my general recommendations are: high quality shielded power cord and interconnects, amp into it's own socket on it's own circuit if possible, digital into a separate circuit.

In general, certainly sound advice. I was happy to see that the Kabeldirekt RCA interconnects I normally use have dual shielding.

I thought the PST-8 had that separation BTW ...

The PST-8D (not the PST-8) claims to have that, but that clearly didn't make a difference at all here. Which is not the least bit surprising if indeed I'm injecting the noise by touching the Jotunheim. No shielded power cord or power isolation can prevent my laptop's power supply from emitting a field and my body from absorbing it.

 

[areek]

Email them (orders@schiit.com) and tell them exactly what you've said here. They will tell you what they can do. Was he having it shipped to a US address or picking it up directly from Schiit?

shipped to the usa. he will be travelling so it was supposed to be shipped to a us address.

 

[the finisher]

It's probably a great surge protector, which is why have two of them, and a PST-8D. But I'm not convinced by its power conditioning abilities.



Not really, I don't think I have a single shielded power cord. Mouser.com lists the 14 AWG Tripp-Lite cords I have, but filters them out when I select "shielded". Only a 2 m and 3 m long Volex cord remain (when looking for 14 AWG as well), but looking on their website, there's no indication that they actually are shielded. I now reached out to both Tripp-Lite and Volex to find out which of these is shielded.
Of course, once you go into audio specific power cords, there are quite a few shielded ones available, but also at higher prices. I couldn't hear a difference between a $10 Tripp-Lite power cord and a $750 Audioquest Thunder power cord, so I'm not eager to spend a lot more just to get shielding. Of course I'm still tempted by Pangea power cords... but they seem almost too cheap compared to the competition, and their talk of separate bass conductors makes me very skeptical.



But for this particular issue, the noise seems to be coming from me, so I guess I would have to be shielded, not my power cords. Maybe I should try wrapping myself in aluminum foil :-D
I do admit that I could try even more, though, like different outlets. To be continued, I suppose :-D Luckily this is not an issue I have in actual use. There is a faint buzz on max volume even when not touching the amp, but all of my headphones are way to efficient to require going past 12 o'clock - even that would be high.



In general, certainly sound advice. I was happy to see that the Kabeldirekt RCA interconnects I normally use have dual shielding.



The PST-8D (not the PST-8) claims to have that, but that clearly didn't make a difference at all here. Which is not the least bit surprising if indeed I'm injecting the noise by touching the Jotunheim. No shielded power cord or power isolation can prevent my laptop's power supply from emitting a field and my body from absorbing it.

If you don't mind spending a bit more than Pangea. https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/analysis-plus-pro-power-oval-power-cable


Wrap the power brick in foil.

 

[the finisher]

shipped to the usa. he will be travelling so it was supposed to be shipped to a us address.

Contact them, different shipping address from a credit card address is a red flag.

 

[the finisher]

@Alcophone Don't wrap it tightly, should not be necessary, aluminum conducts heat well so should be ok

 

[Th3Drizzl3]

so ill have a brand new silver version to compare with both my old silver one and the newer black one next weekend. i found a local person i know who got his newer silver jot about 3 weeks ago and is letting me borrow it so i can sit and compare all three to see whats up.

 

[GrussGott]

Of course I'm still tempted by Pangea power cords...
In general, certainly sound advice. I was happy to see that the Kabeldirekt RCA interconnects I normally use have dual shielding.

Well, there's a bit of a trick with the cable shielding - it's very easy to claim "99% shielded" ... what that doesn't tell you is how much EMI is actually getting in (which can be 60% or more). Further, most cheaper cables don't shield the connectors. Ultimately this is why I just went with AQ interconnects: any reputable dealer gives you 60 days in-home trial and Amazon is at least 30 depending on the vendor. I did see the engineering specs for a few of AQ's cables; they're insanely spec'd. These aren't just some off the shelf wire with some connectors, they're 100% in-house spec'd, built, and tested. (btw, I have zero relationship AQ, just a happy customer). Blue jeans cables were fine too, I just liked the AQ better.

What you might try is a cheap EMF detector from home depot or similar as they're like $20 and you can find how much EMI your power cables and other stuff is throwing off - it'll tell you right away how shielded your power cord is.

What I did was created the simplest set up:

(1.) macbook streaming flac all networking off and on battery power
(2.) usb cable
(3.) mimby
(4.) rca interconnect
(5.) Jot into balanced hd600

and then I moved all over the house trying different sockets. The first time I tried with just the jot and mimby plugged in, no hum, so then it was matter of slowly building out to find the culprit.

You can try these PS Audio Links too:
How to find and fix hum
hum extended
grounding best practices

 

[PointyFox]

Just got a Jotunheim that buzzes and hums at higher volumes. Touching the volume knob decreases the noise. Makes the noise with the USB detached too, so I think it's coming over the power cord. Will replace it with a fancy TrippLite on Sunday to see if it helps.

 

[GrussGott]

"With all inputs disconnected, no hum whatsoever at full volume, high gain. With my current inputs (relatively cheap RCA cables), power hum becomes noticeable at 1 pm on the volume knob. Update: The problem was the crossing between the stock power cable and the RCA cables. When I used instead a fancy Shunyata Venom power cable, hum disappeared to 4pm on the volume knob. When I raised the RCA cables 3in above the fancy cable, zero hum at top volume. I had gotten so used to the common-mode rejection of balanced interconnects that I had got sloppy with cable crossings."

Forgot to mention that I also NEVER cross cables and don't stack the digital stuff on the analog stuff. If you're facing the front of my amp, the power cord runs out the back left and away from everything. To the right of the amp 6" away, facing to the right, is the mimby. The RCAs are looped to minimum length and velcro wrapped so they touch nothing, coming out of the back of the Jot as far as possible from the power cord. The Eitr is sitting on top of the mimby with the back facing me, so 90^ to mimby and 180^ to the Jot. The spdif is also looped to minimum length, velcro wrapped, and touching nothing. The USB cable runs straight out of the Eitr (with the back and USB port facing me) to my laptop, as does the headphone cable from the Jot.

TLDR: don't cross the streams. It's bad. Very bad.

 

[Tuneslover]

so ill have a brand new silver version to compare with both my old silver one and the newer black one next weekend. i found a local person i know who got his newer silver jot about 3 weeks ago and is letting me borrow it so i can sit and compare all three to see whats up.

I'll be looking forward to hearing what you find.

 

[Tuneslover]

I purchased my Jot shortly after it was released and I have been reading this thread from the start and to the best of my recollection I don't recall too much discussion about this hum/buzz noise that seems to be discussed now. I am of the opinion that good quality cables are necessary to not only maximize the quality of sound but also minimize the effect of electrical interference. I have been a long time user of AQ cables (no affiliation, just a satisfied customer) on all of my setups because they are well designed and constructed and aren't over-the-top expensive. In addition, all of my equipment (on every system) is plugged into a decent quality surge protector that I'm sure is contributing to my successful results, however my main motivation is to protect my equipment in case of power surges or drops.

I should mention that my Jot is strictly an amp, in other words no DAC or PHONO module. I use a separate standalone Bimby DAC with my Jot. Also, my primary source is a FiiO X5ii using it's coaxial output into the Bimby. I also use the toslink input from my satellite receiver for TV viewing. I have no need for USB on any of my setups except for my iMac setup where I occasionally will rotate one of Mimby's into that setup using an AudioQuest Carbon USB interconnect. No interference or noise issues on that setup either. Final note, my Bimby and Mimby's don't have any current generation USB versions, nor do I use WYRD or EITR.

I assume you folks experiencing these issues have been in contact with Schiit in order to get their advice and assistance. Good luck all.

 

[hikaru12]

So I've finally had time to give the Jot some more impressions. I have the Jot and Gumby located directly next to my computer now and for whatever reason being closer and not stacked on top of each other seemed to really help with the heat, and some detail and instrument separation. Probably coincidence. I've basically changed my stance on the value of the Jot - I think it's a great value and could hit harder than a lot of solid state amps for it's versatility and shear power. At full 12, 1 o' clock with FLAC beat files from one of my favorite DnB artists who also samples really smooth melodies from Brazilian and crate loops from old Hip-Hop records, I just love it. The Jot is able to present a lot of detail, including reverbs very naturally but quickly. It's not as much when you have a holographic space provided by tubes but I honestly think when it's fully warmed up, paired with warm cans and with the Gumby it's maxing out what I can do with this combination. The Jot is just incredibly dynamic and when volume matched well with your music you can control the bass while still having a real enjoyable experience that will bring a smile to your face. Fully balanced is really the best way to enjoy the Jot imo otherwise you're missing out on it's full capabilities.

 

[Sonic Defender]

So I've finally had time to give the Jot some more impressions. I have the Jot and Gumby located directly next to my computer now and for whatever reason being closer and not stacked on top of each other seemed to really help with the heat, and some detail and instrument separation. Probably coincidence. I've basically changed my stance on the value of the Jot - I think it's a great value and could hit harder than a lot of solid state amps for it's versatility and shear power. At full 12, 1 o' clock with FLAC beat files from one of my favorite DnB artists who also samples really smooth melodies from Brazilian and crate loops from old Hip-Hop records, I just love it. The Jot is able to present a lot of detail, including reverbs very naturally but quickly. It's not as much when you have a holographic space provided by tubes but I honestly think when it's fully warmed up, paired with warm cans and with the Gumby it's maxing out what I can do with this combination. The Jot is just incredibly dynamic and when volume matched well with your music you can control the bass while still having a real enjoyable experience that will bring a smile to your face. Fully balanced is really the best way to enjoy the Jot imo otherwise you're missing out on it's full capabilities.

Which DnB artist is that, sounds like something I would enjoy.