[yonson]

Small bass drivers vs big?

I could always listen to a Rogers LS35A on cuts I know well, and let that memory fill in the bass. Probably why a lot of subless planars didn't disturb me. That Gradient woofer the one used for Quads and ML CLS's, that's a fine very quick producer of bass. Probably not enough volume to satisfy folks used to horns, but certainly enough for the lower efficiency high end crowd.

My current speakers give pretty loud clean bass (to me, since I don't listen with peaks over 94 db at my ear ever, and usually 88 or so) to about 48 Hz (two 7" and a port), and my HE-500's can give a decent account of itself at 30 Hz. Less so with the rear screens off.

I haven't heard any compression drivers in some years... but if Joni Mitchell seems to have a head cold, or be 20' wide - not for me.

Problem with a big say 15" woofer with a cabinet is that if its a pair and the rest of the speaker is physically attached to it, it's a heck of chunk of the front of the listening stage to give over, big baffles are tough to hide. If its a single sub loaded into the best spot in the room for flat bass and the Q is .707 or under - congrats, that's a heck of a woofer. But if its some BIC 5 wannabe with a Q over .9 - then our tastes are far apart.

While my current towers have a pair of 20cm bass drivers, some of the best sounding towers I've ever heard only had 3 115mm bass drivers. If anyone ever gets a chance to listen to a pair of Raidho D3.1's (or 2.1's even the 1.1's are quite impressive) I definitely recommend it...

 

[yonson]

Metallica's CD release of Death Magnetic, is woeful to my ears, yet the "bootlegged" version from the Guitar Hero game was way better, much more dynamic, less crushed. Apparently newer releases are better too. I might have to check.
.

I was blown away by how much this CD sounded like ass when it was first released, I was beyond pissed. Then when I found out about the GH BL I had to give it a try, and was amazed by how much better it sounded, I refuse to give them any more of my $$$ so I'll have to take your word on newer releases being any better...

 

[Xcalibur255]

May I ask a question? Are the definitions you have for value yours, or those given to you from outside? I was a software eng, architect, mgr, and worked hard for them and my wallet. But I also went for the really nice 1/2 acre woodland garden all planted by hand full of salamanders and tree frogs and azaleas, and the family, and sometimes the high end audio. If those things were not at zero, they at least provided some balance away from the cube. Maybe that's enough for you not to feel crushed. Joy in simplicity or complexity is still joy. Simple and pure joy to you.

Hmm. Perhaps the simplest way to put it would be this: I've always wished I could be a creator instead of merely a consumer. But I don't have the talent for it. Aside from that there are........ other things that have always held me back. When every mole hill in your life feels like a mountain you don't climb any more than you absolutely have to. I really admire people who have aspirations and can actually act on them. I simply have no spare capacity for it, even if I wanted to.

 

[Slaphead]

Let me explain. Last year, we focused on all the things you need to concentrate on if you want to grow efficiently. Things like:

• Better vendors
• Better ways to make products
• Enhanced test procedures
• Better test equipment
• Improved production control
• Consolidated product lines
• Enhanced current products

Or, in other words, ZzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzZZZzZzzz….

So, good solid consolidation then. It might feel like ZZzzzzzz but it's part of the process of producing good solid products, and good on you for doing that. Some other companies, especially in the tech industries, simply want to ply you with new rushed flashy features every year rather than actually stopping and getting the basics right in the "zeroth" place.

 

[sam6550a]

So, good solid consolidation then. It might feel like ZZzzzzzz but it's part of the process of producing good solid products, and good on you for doing that. Some other companies, especially in the tech industries, simply want to ply you with new rushed flashy features every year rather than actually stopping and getting the basics right in the "zeroth" place.

There definitely is a required balance between the two extremes to assure that the company stays progressive and solid. I have seen companies fail from pursuing either extreme,

 

[Robert Wortman]

You are not used to very good gear. Any narrow tower speaker with small woofers automatically disqualifies as very good because of the high distortion in the bass. A better speaker with big woofers and compression drivers can be build for under 2k.
I really don't mean 5-digits-expensive gear. It's sort of like U.S. college where you have to spend a certain of amount of money in order to be able to study, but the most expensive ones do not make you smarter.

That's your opinion. Completely unsupported by actual facts. Paul Barton spends untold hours in an anechoic chamber measuring his designs. I am absolutely sure he doesn't accept "high distortion in the bass"

 

[Robert Padgett]

That's your opinion. Completely unsupported by actual facts. Paul Barton spends untold hours in an anechoic chamber measuring his designs. I am absolutely sure he doesn't accept "high distortion in the bass"

Facts don't matter. Opinions are all that count. Especially if in the process of voicing your opinion, you are able "speaker shame" somebody in the process. Jeez, I always though Head-fi was about Headphones, not speakers.
Is there a forum called "Room-fi"? Speaker systems very expensive Wilsons or DaytonAudio $49 bookshelves, are not what you hear...you hear how speakers interact with the room of the listener. Big woofers vs small woofers... How about 50mm transducers less than an inch from your eardrum actually gives the listener an opportunity to Hear the music, not the room.
But, you can only claim superiority if you own Abyss HPs and everything less is just proof that you have never heard "real" headphones. :sarcastic:

 

[wink]

Well first you must answer the question:

Do I use Robbie the Robot laws

or

Do I use the Robinson's Robot laws

???

..

 

[audio philestine]

..

One for the programmers out there:

 

[porchwizard]

One for the programmers out there:

F'n brilliant !

 

[gljus]

One for the programmers out there:

took me a second to get it (as any debugging does)

 

[audio philestine]

took me a second to get it (as any debugging does)

I have a copy hanging by my desk for this very reason. That is a real bug there that is easy to miss. Makes for some nice discussions with others.

EDIT: just to close out the lesson, a trick I learned from a wiser programmer than myself is to reverse the 'if' statement:

if (true = isCrazyMurderingRobot)

and then if you inadvertently forget to use the '==' test operator instead of the '=' assignment operator, the compiler will generate an error ("invalid lvalue"), and the Humans get to live.

 

[jimmers]

took me a second to get it (as any debugging does)

Especially if you used to use := and =, not = and ==


isCrazyMurderingRobot is defined as a Boolean so testing equal True should not be necessary anyhoo

 

[wout31]

[QUOTE=" I am absolutely sure he doesn't accept "high distortion in the bass"[/QUOTE]
ALL speakers have high distortion in the bass. Read that first word again! ALL.
Specially when it is a "conventional" loudspeaker with drivers, not an "electrostatic" speaker.
Electrostatic speakers can keep distortion very low (below 1%), but not in the frequencies below 50 Hz. It will rise to 5% on the second harmonic.
Distortion in a drivers speaker will easily be 10 percent or more (and not only on the bass). On top of that comes the fact your listening room is not an anechoic chamber and there you have even more distortion. Next, your room (just like mine) is probably not big enough to contain the very low tones (for 20 Hz it needs to exceed 60 feet = 18 meters in length) and even more distortion comes in. Any speaker designer has to accept the law of physics and hence have high distortions in the bass region. There would be little distortion if the speaker would move evenly and linear forth and back without delay and deformation, but it doesn't. It can't because of the weight, the construction, the air resistance, the cabinet, magnetic field, heating of the voice coil etc. etc.In fact the speakers are by far the weakest link in the 2-channel audio system. If you want to be a little bit closer to perfection buy full range electrostatic loudspeakers, not the hybrid ones. As Jason mentioned in one of his very first chapters of his book the largest amount of money on your 2-channel system should go to the speakers. I totally agree on that statement. Please note this is all just my opinion and as an Quad ESL-63 enthusiast I'm very biased.Enjoy your music.

 

[Derrick Swart]

[QUOTE=" I am absolutely sure he doesn't accept "high distortion in the bass"

I heard the esl63 with vanmedevoort amplification at a colleague’s home many years ago. Fantastic sound, i can’t live with the placement and the maintenance though, otherwise a great option. I remember the sense of realism they produced and his story that he had to clean the mylar every now and then because of the dog hairs.