[the finisher]

If for some reason, you love the sound of a pair of highly efficient speakers, then by all means get a low wattage, Class A/Continuity/etc. amp...if that floats your boat.

However, if you love the sound of some less efficient speakers, then buy them and a good sounding non-Class A (A/B, etc.) amp that has the headroom to properly drive them! You'll likely never know the difference between the amp classes.

Or you could end up like me, and have multiple pairs of speakers and need both. :-D

 

[Oveja Negra]

Or you could end up like me, and have multiple pairs of speakers and need both. :-D

You should seek help ASAP, dude

 

[winders]

You'll likely never know the difference between the amp classes.

I disagree completely.

 

[Snowpuppy77]

I understand that class A is harder to get the same wattage out of than something like class A/B, I understand what makes a pure class A amp more expensive then a different more efficient topology. You cvan show me expensive class a amps but we know thats not what Schiit does, They make what was expensive relativity reasonable. Which is why I am thrown I guess. Is 10 or 20 watts in class A louder than 10 or 20 watts of class A/B? Watts is watts right? Thats what is losing me. I guess when I see the amp I see something that will power a nice set of bookshelf speakers and could sounds really great doing it, but not really much else. I feel like Im missing a piece to the puzzle here and I want to know what it is. I know Schiit makes great stuff and usually when I see a product they release I can be like oh yeah thats cool, but honesty this is throwing me. I mean its cool but I dont understand why its a big deal. Unless you are telling me that we have gotten too caught up in power number and we are grossly overpowering out speakers..which I could definitely believe.

again this not not me hating or being argumentative or anything like that. I just really dont understand hype. Which may not be surprising because the extent of my speaker and amp buying is for home theater. I was never all that into a straight stereo setup, that was what my headphones were for. Lately though Ive been wanting to do a 2 channel setup in my living room for a turntable so in trying to figure this all out.

It is quality over quantity. If your speakers are very efficient you will likely get significantly better sound out of a properly designed lower wattage Class A amp than you will with a much higher wattage class A/B amp. That said yes it is true that Class A amps tend to drive speakers better at the same wattage. Go to the Music Direct site and look at the Luxman integrated amplifiers. The most expensive Luxman is a lower powered amp. Some of the less expensive Luxmans have more watts. It is not difficult to design a high powered amp that is reasonably priced. What is difficult is to design one that sounds good. This review of a low powered Luxman may give some insight:

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/08/04/luxman-l-550axii/

If Jason and the Schiit team have designed Class A amp at 20wpc that has serious delivery on sound quality for under $1k it will be quite an accomplishment. Granted they will not be a good match for some speakers like Magnepans but if you have ZUs, Tektons, Spatials, Klipsch, or another high efficiency speaker it could be a great match and potentially better than the Vidar.

 

[Snowpuppy77]

Very well said. I'd get bigger speakers though.

Or get Vidar, it's great by all accounts.

The reality is that smaller book shelf speakers tend to have lower efficiency in order to deliver any kind of bass extension. More efficient speakers are often larger.

 

[Snowpuppy77]

Just another perspective -- First...find some speakers you really like and then buy the proper amp for them. There are many great speakers at a wide variety of efficiency levels....but the greatest speaker is the one that sounds best to your ears!

If for some reason, you love the sound of a pair of highly efficient speakers, then by all means get a low wattage, Class A/Continuity/etc. amp...if that floats your boat.

However, if you love the sound of some less efficient speakers, then buy them and a good sounding non-Class A (A/B, etc.) amp that has the headroom to properly drive them! You'll likely never know the difference between the amp classes.

I don't do stereo speaker setups any more but would probably look at planar (inefficient) speakers again if I chose to get back into this. For these speakers, I'm guessing I'd be much happier with the Vidar than the Aegir. My $.02

FWIW, I keep thinking a Vidar and set of Maggies w/Sub would be an interesting combo for the music that I spend the most time listening to.

Very well put. Its all a set of compromises. If I had Maggies I would get the higher powered Vidar for sure. Maggies just seems to do things no other speaker can quite do. My Dad has a pair of 3.7i Maggies being driven by a 500 wpc Musical Fidelity amp with NuVista tubes. Sounds amazing.

 

[TomSix]

@TomSix

This has probably been answered a thousand times but....

So using the example of a Aegir (with the specs we know at this time), when is the amp in Class A and when something else (ABish)?

Details/Conditions: What I mean is if it is class A at all it is running all out all the time right? An Aegir, Vidar, First Watt F5, BA-3 balanced, you pick your amp. None of these have a potentiometer or a switch to turn portions on/off or up/down (except inside a class B? transistor). Is it the "volume" level (current and voltage) of the source aka preamp signal that determines how hard the transistors in a Class AB are working and if they leave class A mode? for AB?

I think the answer is that the Aegir AB circuit (or is it an AB transistor (are transistors an Amp class or is it the circuit or both?) runs class A until it hits a certain level (wattage?, voltage?, current?, temperature?) and then begins "switching?"

I ask so that I may be further enlightened, by putting it this way hopefully I'll get it.

Bonus points if you can describe the BA-3 Balanced mono-blocks (feedback less front end gain board with complementary output boards) amp class operation and whether they are always class A or if they do switch into AB. I think it is A all the time but if you pump 32V+- out of the PSU and run balanced into 4 ohms I think you are getting something like 245watts out of a balance monoblock with like 500watts of heat ?? For reference I'm talking a balanced build of the lower right quadrant of this link.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1006/5046/files/burning-amplifier-configurations.pdf

It's probably most sensible to think in terms of how much *output power* into whatever given load impedance 4, 6, 8 ohms, etc an amplifier will produce and still remain in Class-A. At whatever point the individual tube/s or transistor/s comprising the power output stage begin to turn-off for a portion of each 360 degree wave cycle, then that amplifier stage has transitioned out of Class-A operation.

Another interesting fact: the tube/s or transistor/s comprising a Class-A amplification stage actually dissipate the most power, and therefore generate the most heat, when the amp is at a zero signal condition. So yeah, when no music is playing, the amplification devices are running hottest! As the level of the audio (music) being amplified is increased, in tandem, progressively less power is being dissipated within the Class-A output tube/s or Transistor/s and proportionally this power is transfered to the load (loudspeaker). So, a Class-A amp actually runs a cooler as the output level is progressively cranked-up towards maximum rated output (volume/SPL)!

There are various clever 'sliding bias' and/or bias servo schemes that some manufacturers have implemented in an effort to increase the range/ wattage of an amplifier's Class-A output without causing the amplifier to exceed it's static dissipation ratings (aka: burn up!) but only varying degrees of success and various real caveats are attendant with such approaches.

Regarding the questions about the BA-3 amplifiers you mention: I simply don't have knowledge of the circuit/design of this amplifier, and so apologize I cannot answer your question. If I had time today to take a glance at it I would, but unfortunately I do not. Sorry about that.

 

[GearMe]

I disagree completely.

Not surprising...

 

[Oklahoma]

That's REALLY helpful and the first confirmation of being able to lower the output power I have yet found for any new equipment.

Which access point are you using?

And I did a perusal of their forums and didn't see where this topic was even mentioned, but I'll look even deeper now that it seems to be in there some where.

And which hardwired router are you using?
My 'combo' unit is acting flakey and I should probably upgrade the wired side as well.

Thanks for the reply

JJ

Mine is the Security Gateway Pro model: USG-PRO-4

the full setup is
USG-PRO-4 which feeds a Unifi switch 16 150W where it goes to my Access Point UAP-AC-PRO and a small switch in the office Unifi switch 8. This is the backbone and everything connects to 1 of the 2 switches, depending on where it is, or the AP.

 

[RCBinTN]

Derail THIS thread. I love this thread BECAUSE it exhibits so much Brownian motion!

It is like the best Geek Cocktail Party EVER!

Or, Bayesian probability theory ...

 

[RCBinTN]

Yea, right. Like I am the one that called in the mods. Wrong again.....as usual.

Retire in Franklin, TN ... well, we have expectations ...
#1 - only friendly people considered.
#2 - attend our HP meets, see #1.
PM me and I will send an application form .

 

[jimmers]

That can help predict when you might see the next uncalled for negative hateful post, although “who” will make it is a much smaller probability set.

Looks like we got an answer ...

You think someone who is the "worst poster on [redacted] (not a joke) and drives a Porsche like a 16 year old teenager on high heels knows what Bayesian Probability is?

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

 

[valiant66]

PS - for folks that want their system to be ruler flat, I wonder how many have had their hearing properly measured and take this into account (EQ? A no-no to many audiophiles).

I have had my hearing tested. I can’t hear a damn thing above 10k and my hearing response is “U” shaped. Loki makes more sense in my situation than a fancier amplifier would.
.

 

[GearMe]

I have had my hearing tested. I can’t hear a damn thing above 10k and my hearing response is “U” shaped. Loki makes more sense in my situation than a fancier amplifier would.
.

I'm sure this situation and many variants of it are pretty common for a lot of us folks. Loki makes a lot of sense for those people chasing the Holy Grail of ruler-flat response -- or for that matter, not-so-flat response!

To my way of thinking, if you enjoy the music with a boost/cut in bass, mids, or treble, more power to you! If ruler-flat's your thing...ditto!

I tend to like different sound signatures and hence own a variety of headphone brands/models that often sound better with some music genres more than others. Some of these cans are 'reference-level'. Others...not so much. That said, I can get as much enjoyment from Senns/Beyers as I do from Audeze/HiFiMan as I do from Fostex/Denon. Heck, every once in a while, I still throw on my Grado SR60s and they still engage me if the music/mood is right.