[Sarvasaha]

I'm also very confused.
I do not need 400 wpc, I just wanted to stay balanced to be able to place the amps close to the speakers. The only way to do this with Vidar is mono block. If that means 400 watt that's fine with me. I expected I needed to buy inline attenuators.
I don't want to play very loud, I just want to have enough head room to be able to play the amp in a relaxed way as I think that improves the sound quality.

I am with you. I like my amps to have effortless power so they can get a proper grip on the transducers.
..and they do not sound like they are trying too hard.
Its quite possible to damage speakers with not enough power (amp clipping tends to cause bad things to happen)

 

[liquidsmote]

Vidar is essentially a dual-mono amp, this is from Jason's chapter:


I bet a single Vidar would be fine, be plenty loud with any speaker, would even satisfy your dual mono criteria! (Schiit has the 30 day trial period too!)

As for the heat, it's basically a non-issue with regards to sound quality.
All amps that aren't class D will get hot, often nothing happens to the sound, but sometimes the sound of an amp will change with the temp so for those it's best to let them warm-up and stabilize.

Honestly, I bet if you got a single Vidar your ears would break before you could send it into thermal protection...

Can you explain this? I'd assume an amp would sound the same at any temperature but then again I don't know a whole lot about amplifiers.

My Cronus Magnum with KT120s runs ~ 200F on the tubes ... and sounds ... OK. Same amp with KT-77 tubes halves the wattage and runs the tubes closer to ~375F ... but sounds absolutely magical. While @Ableza may have been joking, with tube amps there is definitely a sweet spot temperature wise. Methinks a hot running Vidar would be my ticket if I was interested in solid state.

Also, agree with @JoeKickass regarding Vidar's plentiful wattage = loud. I run a 3.5 watt SET that generates enough decibels to rattle furniture and make the wife whine.
3.5 Watts with efficient speakers is an enlightening experience ... I think too many people over-prioritize output power. My misconceptions came from the car audio world where it was normal to run multiple 1KW mono blocks for maximum SPL.

 

[leeperry]

Patience is only a virtue if you don't plan on buying until at least a few months after they are released

Right, anyway only one day to go now

 

[jseymour]

I have a good amount of experience with tube based guitar amps (still own 7 of them) and you are correct that tube amps sound better when warm/hot versus cold. But don't equate that with solid state amps. Totally different. You do not want to have a solid state amp get too warm. Harsh distortion versus what happens with tube amps when driven hard.

 

[US Blues]

I am with you. I like my amps to have effortless power so they can get a proper grip on the transducers.
..and they do not sound like they are trying too hard.
Its quite possible to damage speakers with not enough power (amp clipping tends to cause bad things to happen)

It's easier to fry speakers with too little power than too much power, it's the distortion components from an overloaded amp that destroys drivers.

Effortless power and "grip" make for blissful listening, Vidar's deliver.

 

[liquidsmote]

I'm also very confused.
I do not need 400 wpc, I just wanted to stay balanced to be able to place the amps close to the speakers. The only way to do this with Vidar is mono block. If that means 400 watt that's fine with me. I expected I needed to buy inline attenuators.
I don't want to play very loud, I just want to have enough head room to be able to play the amp in a relaxed way as I think that improves the sound quality.
My "old" Quad 520F is rated at 2x105 watt into 8 ohm, was fed with the same balanced output from Freya as the Vidars now. The 520F played at the same volume or even a little louder at the same volume control point on Freya. As this was close to max I thought I could use some extra headroom.
I don't agree with @belgiangenius and @hornytoad that that's what tube mode is for. Yes, tube mode has a higher gain but gives a different sound colouring, and some noise (don't say no, it does), I prefer either passive or JFET mode as I find them more relaxed and less fatiguing.
I must admit that tube mode sounds better with Vidar than it sounded with the 520F, but still on most tracks not my turf. I only use tube stage on some fifties and sixties recording that are not from major labels. Replaced the stock tubes with matched Tungsol 6SN7GTB. (no tube discussion, I don't want to spent more than the price of the Freya on tubes as I find that ridiculous)
I know that doubling the wattage of an amp gives only a 3 bB increase in volume, so I didn't expect anything to play very loud. But I'm still puzzled by the output the 2 Vidars produce in comparison to the 520F.
As to the sound quality: It is phenomenal. So much more detail. WOW. It blows the 520F away. The Vidars never run more than hand warm even if I play at close to 80 dB for a long time.
The ESL's protection did shut down when I tried the Ragnarok on them some time ago, but with the Vidars the protection doesn't need to kick in. That's another ?? at the output at almost maximum volume control setting on Freya.
The Freya is fed with a balanced input signal from the Gungnir MB. The Gungnir MB is fed with a BNC digital signal from the RME soundcard in my PC. As mentioned same line up that was used on the 520F.
Always open for ideas and useful input on the matter. Thanks

No tube discussion!?!?!?! Paying more for tubes than the actual equipment is the name of the game!

I jest! The Tung-Sol is an excellent modern tube (at least in the Saga), but gold can be had for cheap if you're OCD and constantly on the hunt. The Raytheon is the cheapest of my many, many, many 6SN7 tubes ... and yet it sounds (to me) the best out of them all. I've picked up some spares, USA and Japan, and they're amazing.

 

[JoeKickass]

...the car audio world where it was normal to run multiple 1KW mono blocks for maximum SPL.

I run 10 kW monoblocks... anything to avoid clipping!
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_88195_DC-Audio-10.0k.html

Look how massive this is!

 

[Jnan]

It was a joke aimed at those who were complaining about amplifier heat, and at other old guys like me who remember the PL400.

Joke well taken no issues here . I m used to amps getting warmed up and could sound better. "Electron-Holes pairs exchanges faster and hence better SI or better wave-shapping etc ?" Infact I had Devialet, which I let it play first 2-3 tracks with LOW freq for few minutes so it could ramp up its temp quickly and then get into my playlist so I could enjoy more. There could be many reasons why hoter (not fry hot so it damages the circuitry) sounds better, but I liked it that way.

 

[earnmyturns]

It's easier to fry speakers with too little power than too much power, it's the distortion components from an overloaded amp that destroys drivers.

Effortless power and "grip" make for blissful listening, Vidar's deliver.

Listening to Yggy>Hegel H360>KEF Reference 1s. The H360 is rated at 250W/c into 8 Ohm, the KEF Reference is specified for 50-200W. It all works really well to as loud as I feel comfortable listening to 11ft away from the speakers.

 

[winders]

I have a good amount of experience with tube based guitar amps (still own 7 of them) and you are correct that tube amps sound better when warm/hot versus cold. But don't equate that with solid state amps. Totally different. You do not want to have a solid state amp get too warm. Harsh distortion versus what happens with tube amps when driven hard.

That would depend on the SS amp and where it is getting hot......my Pioneer M-22 amp gets very hot on the heat sinks...and it has fantastic distortion numbers when hot.

 

[sublime9]

No tube discussion!?!?!?! Paying more for tubes than the actual equipment is the name of the game!

I jest! The Tung-Sol is an excellent modern tube (at least in the Saga), but gold can be had for cheap if you're OCD and constantly on the hunt. The Raytheon is the cheapest of my many, many, many 6SN7 tubes ... and yet it sounds (to me) the best out of them all. I've picked up some spares, USA and Japan, and they're amazing.

If you know where to look, you can pick up NOS and used, but still testing new on a TV-7, 539B, 6SN7 tubes for silly cheap. I have picked up 12 (GTB Sylvania) for $5 a tube and 4 for $6(3 RCA and a GE). Not interested in reselling, just an informational post.

Edit: I am not talking about swap meets but internet advertised sales.

 

[jseymour]

That would depend on the SS amp and where it is getting hot......my Pioneer M-22 amp gets very hot on the heat sinks...and it has fantastic distortion numbers when hot.

You caught me in a generalization. Your amp, like some of the Pass product is an exception and I am sure there are others. A Class A solid state amp. Also, by all accounts, an exceptional sounding amp. There are many solid state amps that start out Class A for the first few watts, before going into AB mode. But, a solid state amp that is pure Class A is not the norm.

 

[wout31]

You're having some very bizarre problems. 120 steps = about 5dB down from full output, full output = 2V, this will drive Vidar into clipping. If Vidar is running cool into the load and not going into protection, then it's not getting enough input signal. Which means either the cables from DAC to preamp or preamp to Vidar are wired incorrectly, or there's a volume control being applied in software, or there's something else wrong.

Start with basic troubleshooting--different cables, running ONE Vidar, looking for volume control on the player software, etc. This is all on our website under schiit.com/faq/system-problems, by the way, If you have problems beyond that, contact the distributor you purchased the Vidars from, or us, if you purchased directly, contact tech@schiit.com.

OK,
I've checked all the cables (opened up the plugs to see how wires are connected.Everything OK.
Measured all the cables for shorts. Everything OK.
Swapped all the cables in steps
- 2x Loudspeaker cables. 3 types. No change
- 2x XLR cables Gungnir -> Freya. No change
- 2x XLR cables Freya -> Vidar. No change
Changed input from BNC to USB. No change
Checked all the volume settings in the PC for the different outputs. All are on 100% output. Played with the volume to see if it affects. It does.
Checked the volume settings on the players (I use MusicBee and Qobuz), both are on 100% output. Played with the volume to see if it affects. It does.
Connected Gungnir to Freya SE. Volume a little bit down, not much. Rest the same.

Not sure it I can set a volt meter to the XLR cable to see what voltage is measured on the plug going into each Vidar. Don't want to damage anything.

I'm very much out of options here.
Going to test with 1 Vidar connected SE to Vidar, but that is a construction I don not prefer.

 

[HumanFly]

And you don`t have an old cd-player laying around? Or a minidisc or discman?
Just to make 100% sure its not source related. I can see you changed everything around but the source was never anything else than the PC.
Or was it? I mean if it`s some weird driver thing changing BNC to USB might not make a difference.

 

[wout31]

And you don`t have an old cd-player laying around? Or a minidisc or discman?
Just to make 100% sure its not source related. I can see you changed everything around but the source was never anything else than the PC.
Or was it? I mean if it`s some weird driver thing changing BNC to USB might not make a difference.

Good point, but also tried switching to CD player S/PDIF out and record player through Mani. Sorry, forgot to mention that.

Just connected 1 Vidar SE to Freya.and it plays at the same level as 2 balanced Vidars do.
Attenuator on Freya still has to go to beyond 4-5 o'clock, close to max, to get to 80 dB. Same as with 2 Vidars. Not 5-6 dB less (22 -> 27 dB amplification SE to balanced specs Vidar)

Just for general information:
My listening position is 7 meters = 23 feet from my speakers. The speakers are 5 meters = 16 feet apart. My listening room is 8 x 12 meter = 26 x 40 feet.
The speakers are 1 meter = 3 feet from the rear wall. As needed for dipole speakers.

Another check I did, if the minus of the speaker was connected to earth of the power supply of the speaker. not the case.

So is Vidar not suited to drive the ESL's in balanced mode? Quad ESL looks to the amplifier(s) as 2 big capacitors connected to the speaker terminals I'm told.