[Timster]

but also about me, because I’ve never noticed it audibly and still don’t….

Hmmmm, I find the same. Interesting isn't it. Kinda like an accidental blind test, that we fail.

 

[sixergixer]

Why should I buy a streamer, rather than streaming from my computer?

A standalone streamer is built with a single purpose: To stream music with as much fidelity as can be mustered given the design and price constraints.

A computer is designed to do literally a million different tasks and *maybe* one of those tasks is to output passably decent audio. Maybe.

 

[rkw]

And if it’s repeatable, and different tracks are actually being served at different bitrates on single albums, that says something about Apple Music

Or possibly that's how the album was delivered by the record label. I occasionally come across an album on Qobuz that Roon identifies as having "Mixed track formats", and upon playing, it has a mix of hi-res and CD quality tracks.

 

[wout31]

I’m aware the DAC clicks when bitrate changes.

But what I’m seeing is albums that are supposed to be at the high-res lossless rate switching over to regular lossless between tracks (and sometimes down to regular AAC 256kbs rates), while also going back up the tiers.

Why? Can’t say. It’s not a Schiit issue, it’s an Apple Music issue and one I would not be aware of if not for the *click* happening within an album that started at one sample rate and changed.

Saw this with Qobuz in the beginning, years ago, too. The Yggdrasil DAC click was sometimes seconds or even close to a minute into the song.
What I think happened, is that the stream was re-initiated way too late.
They solved it with software updates. My idea was that the software was too slow to keep up with the stream's bitrate changes in real time.
Maybe someone who knows more about how this kind of software is working can clarify.

 

[wout31]

A standalone streamer is built with a single purpose: To stream music with as much fidelity as can be mustered given the design and price constraints.

A computer is designed to do literally a million different tasks and *maybe* one of those tasks is to output passably decent audio. Maybe.

A streamer IS a computer and often a very cheap one too. Most often it is kind of a Raspberry Pi in a fancy cabinet with a dazzling display.

 

[R3DFIV3]

...I also use a Gungir MB connected direct into some active speakers in my 'second system'.
The speakers are ELAC NAVIS ARB 51, which also have XLR inputs.
https://www.elac.com/category/powered-speakers/navis-arb-51/
In this system, my only source is a streamer with a digital volume control, so I can run it without a preamp.
It is a very compact, elegant solution, which sounds very good.

To those individuals looking at / considering the above type of setup, do be aware that *some* active speakers will take your analog signal and convert that to digital for processing and playback.

You may want that or prefer the house sound / DSP correction done by that speaker manufacturer, but I prefer my Schiit unaltered.

There's no wrong choice, just preference.

Just be aware this may be occurring and it may not be immediately apparent from the manufacturer's basic literature.

Enjoy!

 

[O8h7w]

A streamer IS a computer and often a very cheap one too. Most often it is kind of a Raspberry Pi in a fancy cabinet with a dazzling display.

This is true, but it is also true that such a small and cheap computer has a LOT less components in it, compared to a regular computer or even a smartphone.

Whether that results in any noise difference is dependent on implementation. It is probably easier to limit noise on a small one, but there may be more budget and more incentive for it on a larger one.

Finally, whether such noise in any way (as jitter in the datastream or any other way) gets transferred to the DAC and causes any audible difference there is far more dependent on the input interface on the DAC component than on exactly how much noise there is to block.

( Unless you can get the noise really low... which is probably easiest to achieve with a good PCIe USB card, the rest of the computer should be fairly irrelevant. )

As far as I understand the matter of sound quality differences caused by computers and streamers, that's it. Assuming they all are set up to be bit perfect with no processing of the audio. There may be more to it, but you'll have a very VERY hard time convincing me that a bit perfect digital stream can carry any sort of sound signature. It can only carry noise, which may or may not affect the sound of the DAC. I know too much about both physics and engineering to believe otherwise.

 

[Les Strat]

To those individuals looking at / considering the above type of setup, do be aware that *some* active speakers will take your analog signal and convert that to digital for processing and playback.

You may want that or prefer the house sound / DSP correction done by that speaker manufacturer, but I prefer my Schiit unaltered.

There's no wrong choice, just preference.

Just be aware this may be occurring and it may not be immediately apparent from the manufacturer's basic literature.

Enjoy!

Good point @R3DFIV3

There is absolutely no DSP in either of my active speaker set ups.

As a technophobe, still uncomfortable with a computer anywhere near my audio gear, I take a very simplistic view; the less digital processing, the better.

I could be misguided in my approach, but both systems sound good to me

 

[AstronomerXI]

Wharfedales are quality and have been for a very long time. Your Denon is probably holding them back. Those AVR amps feel like they don't have a lot of oomph down low nor a lot of reserves for the dynamics presented by the most compelling music. (that Denon have pre amp outs?)

One of the most surprising things to me is how much difference a good amp makes. Never expected that.

The Denon X4500H does have pre-outs, which got me thinking seriously about separate power amps. The Wharfedales are very good mid-towers. I've had them for about 18 years and in 2.1 mode they sound very good. Before I put the sub into the chain and implemented crossover at 80Hz, they could dig nice and low all on their own.

 

[Derrick Swart]

Enjoying Schiit & music

do you use tape to connect your speakers to Tyr?

 

[O8h7w]

I should also note that what is and what isn't a computer can be a bit murky. This is my view of the matter, which I do think holds water when talking about audio:

1. Does it have a CPU with variable clockspeed? Then it is a computer. All modern smartphones and computers do this, and most but maybe not all single-board computers.
2. Does it run a general OS? Then it is a computer. A Linux kernel on it's own cannot really be called a general OS, but stuff that runs a Linux kernel generally can have software added to it that clearly makes it a computer. Pretty much everything with a touchscreen does this. Pretty much everything with an internet connection does this, but not everything with a network port. I'm fairly sure that everything that can do automatic updates does this.

Murky:

An ARM SoC with fixed clockspeed and custom code? Maybe, maybe not. To me this depends entirely of the generality of the code that it runs and it's reprogrammability.

Booting a custom Linux kernel on hardware that would otherwise be considered a microprocessor, intended for single-purpose custom code? Again, that is a computer to me, but maybe not to everyone.

And even if there is fully custom code on a basic microprocessor, like in many Schiit products, at what point does it cease being single purpose electronics and start being a general computer? Sooner than you'd think it is more powerful and more general than many early computers that are undeniably computers. As long as it retains programmability. So if it can get a code update, it is probably a computer.

And by that logic the Bifrost 2 contains a computer.

Hmm.

In a more practical sense, if the device in any way connects to the internet, it should get security updates and generally be treated like the computer it is.

But, as I was trying to say in my previous post: the sound quality qualities of the device is an entirely different matter. It is entirely independent of whether or not it is a computer.

 

[Godaisan]

I had a dream last night that I ordered a Kara and was tracking the FedEx package. I really need to log off of this site.

 

[Erratic Gravy]

Like this?

This image is from my actual phone, not my streamer phone, but the circled portion is the relevant bit.

If I’m playing an album that is supposed to be Hi-Res Lossless, this shows up, but if there’s a *click* on the next, or subsequent, tracks, and I check, that text/click has changed to “Lossless.” Another, later *click* and it’s back to “High-Res Lossless.”

Would be interested to hear from someone who has a DAC that displays sample rate to test, but not interested enough to pursue that hard.

Yep - one of my I phone dongle dacs shows bitrate and it does change track to track on a supposed Hi-Res or 24 bit album - my Bifrost Multi clicks ( relay )when I playback via Apple music /USB in - technically still gapless but paused whilst the DAC switches bitrate !!! Annoying as heck

 

[wout31]

This is true, but it is also true that such a small and cheap computer has a LOT less components in it, compared to a regular computer or even a smartphone.

Whether that results in any noise difference is dependent on implementation. It is probably easier to limit noise on a small one, but there may be more budget and more incentive for it on a larger one.

Finally, whether such noise in any way (as jitter in the datastream or any other way) gets transferred to the DAC and causes any audible difference there is far more dependent on the input interface on the DAC component than on exactly how much noise there is to block.

( Unless you can get the noise really low... which is probably easiest to achieve with a good PCIe USB card, the rest of the computer should be fairly irrelevant. )

As far as I understand the matter of sound quality differences caused by computers and streamers, that's it. Assuming they all are set up to be bit perfect with no processing of the audio. There may be more to it, but you'll have a very VERY hard time convincing me that a bit perfect digital stream can carry any sort of sound signature. It can only carry noise, which may or may not affect the sound of the DAC. I know too much about both physics and engineering to believe otherwise.

That is a lot of assumptions
There is one thing for sure: There is Schiit Unison USB™.

 

[wout31]

do you use tape to connect your speakers to Tyr?

You might think that.