[ScubaMan2017]

I didn`t expect it to be as big a deal. Maybe this always-on-Schiit just doesn`t play well with our green energy
I shall build a browncoalplant in the backyard and report back if it makes a difference!

If a user has plugged in their Schiit rig to a Kill-a-Watt monitor, I’d like to see some kW-h recordings.... after a weekend of use. We might have to go off-grid up on the North Bruce Peninsula. As I buy more shiny silver boxes, I’d like to see how much they (bigger boxes like the Bifrost & Asgard) draw.

 

[ScubaMan2017]

And what about the wiring between the house and the electric pole? And the pole itself?

Audiophiles in Japan are installing their own electricity poles! (not an April Fool's joke)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-gift...ave-it-all-a-personal-utility-pole-1471189463

Maybe coal-fired electric plants have a better midrange than nuclear plants. Okay, I went too far there.

In my 20-30s, I used to work at a fish farm in Kyuquot Sound (east Vancouver Island). 100% diesel power. Computer power supplies didn’t last... heh.

 

[johnjen]

snip
…If it's not a 35mm photo of an analog CRT it didn't happen.

This was taken from my Tek 468 O'scope but I used my ipad to capture the image and then added the labels and lines using Graphic Converter.

JJ

 

[Ableza]

If a user has plugged in their Schiit rig to a Kill-a-Watt monitor, I’d like to see some kW-h recordings.... after a weekend of use. We might have to go off-grid up on the North Bruce Peninsula. As I buy more shiny silver boxes, I’d like to see how much they (bigger boxes like the Bifrost & Asgard) draw.

If you look at the Specs on any Shiit product page, you can see the rated power consumption. Bifrost draws 12 Watts. Asgard 2 draws 30 watts.

 

[jimmers]

This was taken from my Tek 468 O'scope but I used my ipad to capture the image and then added the labels and lines using Graphic Converter.

I guess the 35mm was a bit optimistic (hadn't had my second cup of coffee yet).
I find it amusing how people get hooked on "linear" power supplies as if there is something smooth and natural about then, perhaps not realising typically there's just a big spike of current every 10mS (or ~8mS for those of the 60Hz persuasion) and little else of value in between.

 

[johnjen]

My research thus far shows me that the duration that the current flows is between 3-4 ms± for every 1/2 cycle (60Hz).
This equates to ≈ 6-8ms out of ≈ 16.6ms per cycle or ≈ 36 to 48% of the available time does any current actually flow.

And the nature of that flow is in fast rise and fall time pulses, separated by ≈ 4-5ms of 'no flow' time.
Which means, of the available time to deliver current ≈ 1/2 or less is spent actually flowing current.

As for the benefits of LPS's, what I have found is that the amount of noise generated by SMPS's is the major contributor to their poor performance SQ wise.
Even the best filters used in them, not only dump noise to ground, which modulates the entire ground plane, and adds this noise to every other piece of gear that is grounded, it even infiltrates the neutral line which is connected to the ground back at the breaker panel.
So it's always best to NOT generate noise in the first place, than to try and eliminate it after the fact.

I have noticed that every time I eliminate, or turn off a SMPS, I can hear an improvement in my systems SQ.

And in my case, late at night, I'll turn off my router (SMPS), my modem (SMPS), my screen (SMPS), my scanner (SMPS), and hear into the music with better focus and depth than with these SMPS's even being plugged in, let alone powering the digital circuit (which contributes their own share of noise just operating).

When the ground plane is noisy, everything that is grounded 'sees' this added noise, and our audio gear is sensitive to these added ground voltages.

JJ

 

[Ripper2860]

When the ground plane is noisy, everything that is grounded 'sees' this added noise, and our audio gear is sensitive to these added ground voltages.

Interesting. Would there be any benefit in using a 3-to-2-prong adapter w/o ground for audio gear? If noise from other components come in via ground, it would seem logical in not grounding ones equipment that uses a 3-prong grounding power cord.

(Excuse me if this is a dumb question.)

 

[johnjen]

Say there. No question (or questioner) is dumb, in my book.

In my experience, sometimes 'lifting ground' might help and in other cases can make no difference, or it can make the system SQ worse.
There are a great many variables and each system is different, so there is no set advice that can cover all situations.
AND depending upon which devices are run ungrounded wrt the rest of the system etc, this condition can create a shock potential as well.
Like I stated, there are a great many variables.

The thing is our systems electrically and electronically 'sit on ground' and use it as a basis for and as a 'stable electrical platform' from which to operate from.
If there is no ground reference then that system will 'float' and sometimes floating is more stable, while in other cases not so much.

And especially in SE systems, the shields of the interconnects are tied directly to ground and so will, or can, act as a source of ground just by being plugged in even if the ac power cable has it's ground 'lifted'.

IOW a component with a lifted ground will find and use ANY source of the lowest potential to act as a ground source.

But beyond the issue of where or how a reference ground is established if there is noise on it, it will 'get into' the rest of the circuit.
And in some cases this may not be a problem, while in others (analog equipment) if the very reference the device uses to establish a stable foundation, ie. operate on top of is 'noisy', the entire device is being affected because it's standing on 'shaky ground' so to speak.

Now in lots of systems this isn't the biggest nor most pressing issue that needs to be addressed.
But as any system is refined and is capable of greater and greater resolution, then these issues become more important.

In my case I have eliminated or can turn off all of the SMPS noisemaker's that are in proximity or are directly connected to my audio system, with one big exception.
Or they are on a completely separate and dedicated branch circuit including the one power supply and it's attached device that probably makes more noise than any other single piece of gear, namely my Mac computer which feeds my audio system.

All in all the entire topic of ground, as I understand it, is more or less taken for granted and is assumed to be just fine, thank you very much.
Only it's more complex and involved than these simplistic assumptions would imply.

And like I stated previously it's always better to NOT make noise and NOT have to filter it, than to use any type or combination of filters or other ways of suppressing it.

JJ

 

[winders]

@Jason Stoddard

The Lyr 3 web page reads (color is for emphasis):

Gain: 7.5 (17.5db) or 1.5 (3.5db), via rear switch

I think it should say:

Gain: 7.5 (17.5db) or 1.5 (3.5db), via front switch

 

[jimmers]

I have noticed that every time I eliminate, or turn off a SMPS, I can hear an improvement in my systems SQ.

And in my case, late at night, I'll turn off my router (SMPS), my modem (SMPS), my screen (SMPS), my scanner (SMPS), and hear into the music with better focus and depth than with these SMPS's even being plugged in, let alone powering the digital circuit (which contributes their own share of noise just operating).

I assume not all SMPS are created equal, the Neurochrome HP-1 has two SMPS (Mean Well IRM-20-24) mounted on the amplifier circuit board (6.0 x 7.75), the noise figures are very low.

 

[rkw]

The Lyr 3 web page reads (color is for emphasis):

Gain: 7.5 (17.5db) or 1.5 (3.5db), via rear switch

I think it should say:

Gain: 7.5 (17.5db) or 1.5 (3.5db), via front switch

Obviously your Lyr 3 is turned around backwards.

 

[winders]

Obviously your Lyr 3 is turned around backwards.

Seriously?

 

[johnjen]

I assume not all SMPS are created equal, the Neurochrome HP-1 has two SMPS (Mean Well IRM-20-24) mounted on the amplifier circuit board (6.0 x 7.75), the noise figures are very low.

True enough, however the very fact that SMPS's have to create noise of the sort that they do just to operate, is problematic.
And that isn't to say that LPS supplies don't create there own type of noise as well.
But it isn't anywhere near as hard to deal with.

As for measured noise figures for any device, there are always ways of measuring them at their 'best' and not in a worst case.
All I have to do is connect a probe to 2 different grounding locations and it's amazing how much noise I can find.
And granted that isn't a direct reflection of how much noise has been added into the circuits, but it is an indication of the amount of noise in the vicinity, and is on the ground plane.
Not to mention the noise that is created that is sent into the ground plane and then to other gear that directly shares the same ground connection.

And this sort of noise can act as a mask at certain frequencies which doesn't draw attention to itself mostly because its subtractive instead of additive.
By this I mean it can mask or cloud and thus be subtractive of any music at those frequencies, sorta like distortion by omission.
And it is similar in effect to how dithering functions where it can seem to make things better, but only up to a point.

Like I stated above "it's always better to NOT make noise and NOT have to filter it, than to use any type or combination of filters or other ways of suppressing it."

JJ

 

[mourip]

Thanks for reminding me to fix this--fixed!

Good Morning Jason.

On a different topic. Can you give us an update on the status of the Yggy analog board update queue? It seems to have been stalled for about 3 weeks. I put in my order in mid-January and it has moved just 34 places since then with no movement for the past three weeks. Since I placed my order the queue has backed up to over 262 places.

I have two Yggys and love them and am happily listening to them but would appreciate an idea about the updates.

Thanks!

 

[jimmers]

Seriously?

Probably not.