[Iamnothim]

Quote:

 
'Tain't so. 
 
If you've ever been listening to your system when it's lost signal lock, you've heard the actual digital bits, and it's really unpleasant - sounds like a loud burst of static.  All DACs have to filter those bits to make music out of them (it's called "decimation").  The vast majority of DACs, including the Schiit DACs, make the sample rate higher (interpolation) before the decimation step in order to avoid certain forms of distortion.  Both interpolation and decimation are done by means of filters.  Those filters use math known as Fourier transforms.  Fourier transforms cannot optimize frequency and time domain response at the same time.  When you make one better, the other gets worse.  That's just the way the math works.  So the filtering in each and every DAC represents a compromise by the maker of the DAC, or the maker of the DAC chip, between best time response and best frequency response.  The sound you hear, which is the result of that filtering, is based on the designer's judgment (possibly aided by other listeners) as to which compromise provides the best overall sound quality.  So different DACs can and do sound very different based on the different filter designs the DAC makers or DAC chip makers chose.

Now that is an excellent response.
You've done a great job explaining the process.
Thank you.

 

[Erukian]

Quote:

Yea. Like releasing The New Ipad just months before The New New Ipad. 

Not to be too off topic, but apple seems to have clearly shifted to 6 month release cycles with iOS devices to keep pace with android. I'd expect the iPad 5th gen and iPhone 5S to be here in the next few months.

 

[AlphaChicken]

Thanks to Grokit and Paradoxper and all others who responded for helping me figure things out as far as interfacing goes. I will hopefully soon be purchasing a Gungnir and Mjolnir combo. After hearing all the positive feedback for this combo, I dare say I am extremely excited.

 

[budget minded]

method of digital conversion and filtering (with no mention of bitstreaming or dithering yet either) aren't the only factors that affect sound quality either... after analogue conversion, the signal still needs an amplification stage which also imparts a signature on the sound. the bifrost and gungnir both use different amplification stages for the same DAC, though the gungnir apparently has a better jitter reduction circuit which also affects sound too.
 
the "bits is bits" line of thinking sounds like it's a holdover from the "perfect sound forever" hype used to sell CDs at twice the price and 1/4 tthe manufacturing cost of LPs with actually inferior sound even to this day and if you heard the sound of even "high end" CD players like an $800 carver i tried to listen to in the 80s, DACs were hideous then, and even in the early 90s, i heard some "high end" player on a $20,000 pair of B&Ws sounding quite metallic.
 
if you want some proof that different dacs have different sound, if you already have a home theater receiver and a DVD player of a different brand or "era", switch back and forth between your player's analogue outs and digital outs into your receiver. i'll tell you right now, circa 2000 sony and 2005 panasonic sound VERY different, and even my former onkyo sounded different switching between PCM & bitstream modes.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

Not to be too off topic, but apple seems to have clearly shifted to 6 month release cycles with iOS devices to keep pace with android. I'd expect the iPad 5th gen and iPhone 5S to be here in the next few months.

Still kind of screwed over customers. Or at least many did seem outraged.
We'll see if Apple keeps up the 6 month iteration of new products.
 
And I'm of the opinion that Apple doesn't need to saturate the market or fragment it
by releasing side-grades or holding out on key features for next year, this way 
they'll have something "new" to release.
Quote:

Thanks to Grokit and Paradoxper and all others who responded for helping me figure things out as far as interfacing goes. I will hopefully soon be purchasing a Gungnir and Mjolnir combo. After hearing all the positive feedback for this combo, I dare say I am extremely excited.

 
Antsy, antsy! I'm sure you'll love the combo. Looking forward to your impressions.

 

[olor1n]

Did Schiit ever get to the bottom of the screeching usb issue some have encountered? I've had my NAD M51 running for weeks from usb and not once has it skipped a beat. Same could't be said of the Bifrosts and Gungnir I've had connected to the same source (MBP).

 

[judmarc]

Re screech, supposed to be an updated USB board to resolve that and allow 176.4 USB input in the very near future (weeks or even days).

 

[Jon Snow]

Re screech, supposed to be an updated USB board to resolve that and allow 176.4 USB input in the very near future (weeks or even days).

The SPDIF inputs do 176.4, right?

 

[grokit]

Re screech, supposed to be an updated USB board to resolve that and allow 176.4 USB input in the very near future (weeks or even days).

The SPDIF inputs do 176.4, right?

Good question, I was under the impression that the AKM4399 DAC chip was where the limitation is re 176.4.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

Good question, I was under the impression that the AKM4399 DAC chip was where the limitation is re 176.4.

Correct. Or at least thus far. The only way to achieve it would be upsampling

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Quote:

Correct. Or at least thus far.

The C-Media chip is the limitation for 176.4, not the AKM. SPDIF does 176.4 just fine.
 
And yes, there is a new USB input board coming in a couple of weeks, to solve the handful of remaining "screeching" problems (literally like 30 out of 3000.) Contact us (or your distributor) if you need a board.

 

[Jon Snow]

​

Correct. Or at least thus far.

So, do I understand correctly that the Gungnir will do neither DSD nor 176.4?

Edit: I missed Jason's remark above.

 

[Maxvla]

It will do 176.4 over spdif, not over USB until the new USB modules are ready. No to DSD, that's an entirely different animal.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

The C-Media chip is the limitation for 176.4, not the AKM. SPDIF does 176.4 just fine.
 
And yes, there is a new USB input board coming in a couple of weeks, to solve the handful of remaining "screeching" problems (literally like 30 out of 3000.) Contact us (or your distributor) if you need a board.

Ah, thanks for the correction. I know coax and optical take PCM resolutions, but Mac is limited to 96 on optical.

 

[judmarc]

It will do 176.4 over spdif, not over USB until the new USB modules are ready. No to DSD, that's an entirely different animal.

Right, but with some players (Audirvana+ on Mac is what I use), you can convert DSD to PCM on the fly. I'm pretty happy with the sound I get from DSD files that way.