[Darkbeat]

$960>$850 or $750

So yes, a more expensive DAC. But this post makes my more general point:

 

Synergy and differing individuals tastes should not be overlooked. Just because some prefer these DACs over more expensive DACs does not mean you will in your system. Flavors of DACs and listeners' tastes differ, and synergy between components matters (though perhaps less in the DAC realm than in the preamp/amp/headphones (or speakers), or in the vinyl source realm.

As I posted earlier, the M-DAC is the equivalent of $500 cheaper than the Gungnir in Europe, so yeah I'd say they are comparable.

 

[Roscoeiii]

Regardless, if both are within a person's budget, listen to both if possible and decide which better suits your preferences and your system.
 
Though of course reviews and threads like this will be helpful in narrowing down choices. Online reviews are a weak substitute for actual listening.
 

 

[Jon Snow]

I've been looking at the Gungnir as my next audio component. If I decide to go this way, it will be my first external dac. As I research various dacs within my budget, I find that the process becomes both tedious and confusing, but I think the Gungnir may be a good fit with my system and intended use. I plan on using the Gungnir attached to both my Logitech Touch and my TV via the RCA coax and optical inputs. However, it just dawned on me that the Gungnir has two RCA outputs. My question is, can the two RCA outs be used simultaneously? If so, this would be a bonus in that I could run an additional amp to power outdoor speakers. Am I on the right track in thinking this could be done?

 

[grokit]

Ok - so I did an audition this AM between native 16/44.1 and my 'super sauced' converted redbook, this time with the Gungnir. With the Squeezbox Server its easy. I can play one file then the other in quick succession, back and forth. Same file, native, then upsampled.

One thing I can say for sure. The Gungnir handles 16/44.1 very well. With my Transporter DAC and the MSB DAC, there was a CLEAR lack of digititis with the 'massaged' files. Clearly 'smoother', less irritating, more 'musical', 'better' more natural highs etc.

With the Gungnir the task of finding a 'difference' was much, much harder. When I thought I noticed one, then on the next repeat try I heard something else that canceled that previous observation. There is NO WAY I could tell them apart in a blind test. At least now, with only about 60 min. of trying. Possibly with hours of exhaustive testing I could find a difference that I could pick out.

I'm sticking with the upsampled files only because I 'think' I liked them better. I think they were ever so slightly more 'musical'. Probably purely psychological. I even took the 16/44.1 and applied the same filters, dither, aliasing, and smart limiter to make for a more even comparison. I was hoping the 16/44.1 would sound better. There was no change.

The take away is that I dont completely agree with the above statement bashing upsampling techniques. I agree it shouldnt be done in the DAC. That doesnt make it all 'bad'.

Summary of my upsample 'formula' - Windows 7, Foobar with Sox SRC, output - WAV, 24bit, dither (always), resampler - quality (best), passband 95%, phase response minimum (0%), allow aliasing. Followed by advanced limiter (senses digital clipping).

Love your "what me worry" avatar

I agree that upsampling has it's place in software, but not necessarily in hardware. I use Pure Music to control iTunes' output, with "DSP turned off except for upsampling, mono and invert". I do kinda wish the Gungnir's chip could handle 176K, so I could try and suss if there's a difference with "power of two" upsampling.

 

[Roscoeiii]

Yes, all of the outputs are active simultaneously. I plan to make use of all three (bedroom headphones via balanced, living room headphones and speakers through the 2 RCAs)

 

[tokendog]

I got my Q-cable in and am now listening to the LCD-2.2 with the Mjolnir and Gungnir...let's just say it's rather sexy.  I am going to give it more time, of course, but... some naughty Schiit going on with this pairing...and it has me smiling.  Just a bit.

 

[Jon Snow]

Yes, all of the outputs are active simultaneously. I plan to make use of all three (bedroom headphones via balanced, living room headphones and speakers through the 2 RCAs)

That's good news! So, three outs on the Gungir and 2 on the Touch...lots of options.

 

[earwaxxer]

Love your "what me worry" avatar
I agree that upsampling has it's place in software, but not necessarily in hardware. I use Pure Music to control iTunes' output, with "DSP turned off except for upsampling, mono and invert". I do kinda wish the Gungnir's chip could handle 176K, so I could try and suss if there's a difference with "power of two" upsampling.

Thanks grokit! - I remember some moons ago someone telling me that 'multiples' doesnt matter with software SRC's. Something having to do with the way the algorithms work, being that its not in realtime etc. Unfortunately for me, the Transporter only goes to 24/96, so I cant experiment anything higher than that. That fact will gnaw at me until I splurge for a stand alone USB to SPDIF converter, or possibly an updated Schiit USB board. I figure I will let the technology settle a bit more. Maybe a year from now. Something to look forward to. I'm running out of mods etc!

 

[MoonUnit]

Quote:

I would say that, at least in my system, the Gungnir maintains its 'listen-ability' very well as the volume increases. The harshness/smearing etc. is much less. Much better than my Transporter or my 'long in the tooth' MSB. I would expect that characteristic from a current day DAC company that has rated well in those, and other important areas. To get this kind of performance for under $1K is why everyone is getting excited about it.
As others have said above, you do still, get what you pay for. The higher priced kit makers are also upping their game, with new technology, techniques, parts etc. You cant really compare a 5 yr old DAC to a 6 mo. old DAC. Better to look at them like you would a PC.

 
Thanks! That's very promising. I felt the Transporter was actually pretty good (relatively speaking, in DAC terms) at handling crescendos, so if the Gungnir is better that's great.

 

[MoonUnit]

Quote:

Thanks grokit! - I remember some moons ago someone telling me that 'multiples' doesnt matter with software SRC's. Something having to do with the way the algorithms work, being that its not in realtime etc. Unfortunately for me, the Transporter only goes to 24/96, so I cant experiment anything higher than that. That fact will gnaw at me until I splurge for a stand alone USB to SPDIF converter, or possibly an updated Schiit USB board. I figure I will let the technology settle a bit more. Maybe a year from now. Something to look forward to. I'm running out of mods etc!

 
It's asynchronous sample conversion where multiples don't matter (and in fact, you don't want multiples). For computer use, you'll probably find you get better sound quality by upsampling to 88.2 kHz, rather than 96 kHz. The math is way cleaner.

 

[earwaxxer]

It's asynchronous sample conversion where multiples don't matter (and in fact, you don't want multiples). For computer use, you'll probably find you get better sound quality by upsampling to 88.2 kHz, rather than 96 kHz. The math is way cleaner.

Hey moonunit - it was my understanding that software up-samplers are always asynchronous, or does it depend on the software?

 

[rx79ez08]

I had a chance to compare MDAC and the Gungnir for about an hour, both driven using an Audiophilleo 1.  Comparing the two, their sound signatures are quite different.  To me Gungnir is shaper, brighter and more forward, with a bit more detail.  At first instance that does give a favourable sound, but to me I feel might be more fatigating to listen to in the long run.  In comparison, the MDAC is more layback and easy to listen to, but not as exciting.  To me the two compliment each other, but doesn't necessarily make one better than the other.  It depends on personal perference and the music that is playing.  I quite like the sound of the Gungnir and was ready to buy one to try something different, but ultimately decided to get a NAD M51 which is only about $300 more in Australia, which I felt was a better product and also easier to sell even if I don't like it (it is going like hot cake in first and second hand market in Australia at the moment).
 
Interestingly I found the DAC section of the Gungnir has a similar signature to CEntrance DACmini, so maybe that is an option for people who do not need the balance output and want a decent headphone amp.
 
One thing that I am quite disappointed with the Gungnir is the build quality.  The one that I listen to have a bended coaxial input right out of the box.  To me that is not very professional for a product that price, and I was not impressed.  Also comparing the two I feel that the build quality of the MDAC is much better and more professional.  I also like the smaller form factor of the MDAC.
 
In terms of input and output MDAC have a larger range of input and output with 2 coaxial and 2 optical input, plus 1 USB in.  It also got 1 each of optical and coaxial output.  These IO options are very convient for connection to other equipments like PS3 and Xbox.  The added headphones amp is also decent (not the best but good enough for casual listen) which can be useful for some people.  The Gungnir in comparison is a bit limited.  However, the USB implementation of the Gungnir is arguably better.
 
Lastly some reason MDAC (~ $950) is actually cheaper in Australia than the Gungnir (~$1030), but I guess it is neither here nor there.

 

[olor1n]

Hey rx, PM me if you decide to offload the M51. 

 

[ceausuc]

Quote:

I had a chance to compare MDAC and the Gungnir for about an hour, both driven using an Audiophilleo 1. 
 
 

 
What setup was used? Speakers? Headphones? Have you considered/tested Audio Gd dacs in the same price range? Reference-5 looks so sweet...

 

[earwaxxer]

@RX - "I had a chance to compare MDAC and the Gungnir for about an hour, both driven using an Audiophilleo 1. Comparing the two, their sound signatures are quite different. To me Gungnir is shaper, brighter and more forward, with a bit more detail. At first instance that does give a favourable sound, but to me I feel might be more fatigating to listen to in the long run. In comparison, the MDAC is more layback and easy to listen to, but not as exciting. "


Interesting take on the Gungnir. That observation really does add up. Especially in the detail. I think thats why it performs well at higher volumes. The music doesnt 'break apart'. It amazes me how a DAC can have a certain sound!