Schiit Freya Impressions and Tube Rolling Thread

[Zhon]

Hello, absolute tube newbie here. I am about to receive a Freya N to pair with my Kinki THR-1 and was wondering which tubes would be the most harshness-free and musical sounding, but still have excellent detail (same tonality as THR-1 or Violectric V281, with more neutral bass). It seems that the Raytheon tubes are popular, but I cannot find them online, or maybe I don't know where to look. Any tube recommendations and sites to buy them? Thanks and hppy listening!

 

[mystaiced]

Hello, absolute tube newbie here. I am about to receive a Freya N to pair with my Kinki THR-1 and was wondering which tubes would be the most harshness-free and musical sounding, but still have excellent detail (same tonality as THR-1 or Violectric V281, with more neutral bass). It seems that the Raytheon tubes are popular, but I cannot find them online, or maybe I don't know where to look. Any tube recommendations and sites to buy them? Thanks and hppy listening!

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/6fq7-6cg7-raytheon-japan-nos-valve-tube/

These are the ones that I’m currently running. Raytheons are harder to find in the US. But this company has a healthy supply

 

[Zhon]

Just curious, does anyone have any experience with RCA Black Plates 6CG7 w/ the white label and top getter? I also came across some Sylvania grey plates with the green labels (from the 50’s?). Any impressions or comparisons vs the Raytheons?

 

[mystaiced]

No experience with the RCA Black plates. But I have RCA Clear Tops in the left hand sockets on my Freya N.

 

[mystaiced]

The RCA a clear tops were very neutral sounding to me. Didn’t have any punch. So I moved them from right sockets to left sockets where they have stayed.

 

[wag12]

My guess is something wrong with the heaters. If you have switched out tubes with known working tubes, but everything else works, then the heaters aren’t firing up. That’s about all the trouble shooting you can do. I’d reach out to the seller, was it working properly? Or get damaged in shipping? Maybe you can get some money back. Otherwise it’s probably got to go back for warranty work. Sorry

If you want to reduce the load on the heater filament transformer try using two LISST device in the buffer with two 6SN7 tubes in the gain. Schiit says the Freya+ can supply up to 2.4A to the filament heaters. Each 6SN7 tube uses .6A so four tubes are using 2.4A which is right at the limit. If you use two LISST devices in the left side buffer and two 6SN7 tubes in the right side gain, you are only drawing 1.2A as the LISST devices draw no heater current. I've been using two LISST with two RCA 5692 tubes and it sounds great nearly as good as my more expensive integrated tube amplifier. I tried it with the 4 JJ tubes and the LISST with two RCA 5692 tubes sounded much better. You don't have to use the RCA 5692 which are very expensive now. I has similar results using the RCA grey glass 6SN7 VT-231 which I only paid $75 for on Ebay.

The LISST devices actual sound a lot better than you might think. AudioHead did "A Schiit Tube Shootout - 6SN7 Vs. LISST Vs. 6N1P" just Google it to read the results of the blind test that they did.

Another suggestion is if you use some tube savers to elevate the tubes then all of the heat from the tubes is released into the surrounding air instead of inside the Freya+. The problem is that all of the Chinese and American tube savers I have tried have a death grip on the tube so when you pull out the tube the tube saver come out with the tube. I finally found some Russian Novik tube savers that work for me with the Freya+. They don't grip the tube as tightly and if you insert a tube into them and remove it many times it will loosen up and you will be able to easily remove the tube from the tube saver and the tube saver will remain plugged in to the Freya+ tube socket. This will save wear and tear on your Freya+ tube sockets which are mounted on the main circuit board. Since the Ukraine War started it is harder to buy Russian made products but you can still find them on Ebay from sellers in Estonia.

So if you do all of the above your Freya+ will run a lot cooler and last a lot longer. With only two tubes you get half as much heat as with four tubes; the tube savers elevate the tubes so all of the heat is released outside rather than being released inside the Freya+. The tube savers also save wear and tear on your Freya+ tube sockets. The heater transformer is only running at half of it's capacity instead of running at it's limit so it will last a lot longer.

 

[Musikfan]

Hi, I recently purchased a Freya + and have a question about use of the outputs on the unit.

Can I plug 3 different headphone amps into the balanced and single ended outputs of the Freya? I would use only one amp at a time, but would like to take advantage of connecting 3 headphone amps to the Freya's output connectors. Or do I plug only 1 headphone amp at a time into the Freya+?

I hope my question makes sense. Thanks in advance.

 

[wag12]

Hi, I recently purchased a Freya + and have a question about use of the outputs on the unit.

Can I plug 3 different headphone amps into the balanced and single ended outputs of the Freya? I would use only one amp at a time, but would like to take advantage of connecting 3 headphone amps to the Freya's output connectors. Or do I plug only 1 headphone amp at a time into the Freya+?

I hope my question makes sense. Thanks in advance.

I have been using Bing instead of Google to do my searches because Bing will give me the standard search results on the left side of the screen and I also get an answer to my question from the Bing AI. This saves me time having to search through all the results to find the answer; I just let Bing AI do it for me. I asked the question "Freya+ how many outputs can I use at the same time". The Bing AI said the following:

"According to the manual1, the Freya+ has three pairs of outputs: one balanced and two unbalanced. You can use any of these outputs at the same time, depending on your amplifier or speaker configuration. For example, you can use the balanced output to connect to a power amplifier, and one of the unbalanced outputs to connect to a subwoofer. You can also switch between the outputs using the remote control or the front panel button."

Since you are only going to be using one amp at a time, I don't think you should have any problems connecting 3 headphone amps to the Freya+ as Bing AI says you can use any of the outputs at the same time.

I'm a little confused by the AI's answer as I only see a button on the Freya+ to switch between the inputs; I don't see any button to switch the outputs. I would assume all three would be active. I think the AI got confused and was talking about the mode switch that allows you to change the output mode from passive, buffer, or tubes.
Even AIs can make mistakes. Probably its best to go read the manual and see what they say about this. I just checked the manual and it says this:

Can I use both outputs at the same time?
Most of the time, yes. If you have products that short the input
when turned off, then that can cause distortion.

 

[Musikfan]

I have been using Bing instead of Google to do my searches because Bing will give me the standard search results on the left side of the screen and I also get an answer to my question from the Bing AI. This saves me time having to search through all the results to find the answer; I just let Bing AI do it for me. I asked the question "Freya+ how many outputs can I use at the same time". The Bing AI said the following:

"According to the manual1, the Freya+ has three pairs of outputs: one balanced and two unbalanced. You can use any of these outputs at the same time, depending on your amplifier or speaker configuration. For example, you can use the balanced output to connect to a power amplifier, and one of the unbalanced outputs to connect to a subwoofer. You can also switch between the outputs using the remote control or the front panel button."

Since you are only going to be using one amp at a time, I don't think you should have any problems connecting 3 headphone amps to the Freya+ as Bing AI says you can use any of the outputs at the same time.

I'm a little confused by the AI's answer as I only see a button on the Freya+ to switch between the inputs; I don't see any button to switch the outputs. I would assume all three would be active. I think the AI got confused and was talking about the mode switch that allows you to change the output mode from passive, buffer, or tubes.
Even AIs can make mistakes. Probably its best to go read the manual and see what they say about this. I just checked the manual and it says this:

Can I use both outputs at the same time?
Most of the time, yes. If you have products that short the input
when turned off, then that can cause distortion.

Thanks for your reply and your time. Much appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, and happy listening!

 

[wag12]

If you want to reduce the load on the heater filament transformer try using two LISST device in the buffer with two 6SN7 tubes in the gain. Schiit says the Freya+ can supply up to 2.4A to the filament heaters. Each 6SN7 tube uses .6A so four tubes are using 2.4A which is right at the limit. If you use two LISST devices in the left side buffer and two 6SN7 tubes in the right side gain, you are only drawing 1.2A as the LISST devices draw no heater current. I've been using two LISST with two RCA 5692 tubes and it sounds great nearly as good as my more expensive integrated tube amplifier. I tried it with the 4 JJ tubes and the LISST with two RCA 5692 tubes sounded much better. You don't have to use the RCA 5692 which are very expensive now. I has similar results using the RCA grey glass 6SN7 VT-231 which I only paid $75 for on Ebay.

The LISST devices actual sound a lot better than you might think. AudioHead did "A Schiit Tube Shootout - 6SN7 Vs. LISST Vs. 6N1P" just Google it to read the results of the blind test that they did.

Another suggestion is if you use some tube savers to elevate the tubes then all of the heat from the tubes is released into the surrounding air instead of inside the Freya+. The problem is that all of the Chinese and American tube savers I have tried have a death grip on the tube so when you pull out the tube the tube saver come out with the tube. I finally found some Russian Novik tube savers that work for me with the Freya+. They don't grip the tube as tightly and if you insert a tube into them and remove it many times it will loosen up and you will be able to easily remove the tube from the tube saver and the tube saver will remain plugged in to the Freya+ tube socket. This will save wear and tear on your Freya+ tube sockets which are mounted on the main circuit board. Since the Ukraine War started it is harder to buy Russian made products but you can still find them on Ebay from sellers in Estonia.

So if you do all of the above your Freya+ will run a lot cooler and last a lot longer. With only two tubes you get half as much heat as with four tubes; the tube savers elevate the tubes so all of the heat is released outside rather than being released inside the Freya+. The tube savers also save wear and tear on your Freya+ tube sockets. The heater transformer is only running at half of it's capacity instead of running at it's limit so it will last a lot longer.

Thanks for your reply and your time. Much appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, and happy listening!

Happy Thanksgiving to you too. It sounds like you should be good as long as your headphone amps don't short the input when they are turned off. I also just bought my Freya+ recently. I haven't used it with headphones but it does sound very good with my speakers. I had a Freya S, Freya+, and RFTLYS A5 integrated tube amplifier on hand and I just finished doing a listening test trying to compare all three. For the test I used the following equipment:

Sony CDP-605ESD CD player
Schiit Bifrost 1 DAC
Schiit Vigar 1 Power Amp
Freya S using X1 buffer mode.
Freya+ using tube mode with two LISST and two RCA 5692
RFTLYS A5 with four Shuguang WEKT88 Plus Red Base, two Shuguang CV-181z, two Linlai E-6SL7
Martin Logan Motion 40i Speakers pair
Polk PSW111 8" Subwoofer pair

Being a tube guy, I was very happy and surprised to see how both the Freya S and Freya+ when paired with the Bifrost and Vigar sounded so close to my RFTLYS A5.

The winner is the RFTLYS A5. The midrange sounded just slightly better and the sound seemed fuller, especially in the bass.

Runner up was Freya+. Paired with the Vidar it sounded remarkably close to the A5. Mids and highs were very close to the A5. The bass was very good but was tighter and didn't have quite the fullness of the A5. But we are talking about a very minor difference here and it sounded very close to the A5.

The sleeper is the Freya S. That Schiit can get a solid state preamp to sound close to a tube amp is remarkable. Nothing to complain about with the midrange, its right up there with the A5 and Freya+. The bass sounds very close to the Freya+. The high end sounds very nice but it sounds like the treble output is slightly reduced from the Freya+ and A5 so it sounds very smooth but not as transparent as the other two. This could actually be the best preamp for you, if you have speakers that seem just a tad too bright. It is also the best bargain as you can buy a used Freya S for around $400-$500.

I'm not an expert but I think someone that doesn't want to deal with the hassle of tubes could get a very nice sounding system pretty cheap buy buying a used Freya S and a used Vigar 1. I paid $550 for a used Vigar 1 in mint condition that was three years old and $500 for a used like new Freya S three months old. My plan was to listen to both the Freya S and Freya+ and sell one of them. I had just bought my Freya S on Ebay for $500 and I hadn't even received it yet when I saw this great deal on Craigslist for a Freya+ that was too good to pass up. I paid $650 for a Freya+ in mint condition and it came with 4 LISST, 4 JJ 6SN7, 2 Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB, and 2 RCA 6SN7GTB. It came with the LISST installed so he had been listening to it with them most of the time. I tested all of the tubes on my tube tester and they all tested like new. Even the old RCA tubes tested at 2700-2700 mho. And if that wasn't enough he gave me 66 4k UHD movies as well.

So my problem know is I didn't expect the Freya S to sound so good so now I may just have to keep both of them. I saw an interview with Jason Stoddard one of the founders of Schiit Audio and they asked him what preamp he used at home and he said that he and Mike, (the other founder of Schiit) both use the Freya S in their home systems. If you want to see the interview just google "jason stoddard interview audio belle"

 

[wag12]

Thanks for your reply and your time. Much appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, and happy listening!

If you have an multimeter you can just insert an RCA cable in the input RCA jacks on your headphone amplifier and with it unplugged and power switch in the off position measure the resistance between the center plug and the outside metal tabs that surround the center plug. You can do this easily at the unplugged end of the cable. As long as it is not reading close to zero ohms a direct short you should be ok.

 

[Zhon]

I just received the Freya N today and am listening to it with the stock 6n1p tubes. Current impressions are that they are very detailed (more like extremely detailed) and improve upon the relatively average treble response of the Reference 5 DAC. It also helps that the THR-1 has a very laid-back treble presentation as well. Have not noticed any sibilance so far (though it is getting close in certain tracks), and it shows how much the overall setup matters in terms of sound. I may try out the RCA 6cg7 black plates (similar to clear tops, except slightly more laid back) as I fear that the Raytheons may be too warm and laid back, given that I did not find the stock tubes to be harsh or sibilant. The Freya N is a very nice-sounding pre-amp

Edit: Purchased some Raytheons and RCAs to see how much better it gets

 

[sahmen]

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/6fq7-6cg7-raytheon-japan-nos-valve-tube/

These are the ones that I’m currently running. Raytheons are harder to find in the US. But this company has a healthy supply

Are you using 4 of these tubes in the Freya N or just one pair?

 

[Borat]

I just received the Freya N today and am listening to it with the stock 6n1p tubes. Current impressions are that they are very detailed (more like extremely detailed) and improve upon the relatively average treble response of the Reference 5 DAC. It also helps that the THR-1 has a very laid-back treble presentation as well. Have not noticed any sibilance so far (though it is getting close in certain tracks), and it shows how much the overall setup matters in terms of sound. I may try out the RCA 6cg7 black plates (similar to clear tops, except slightly more laid back) as I fear that the Raytheons may be too warm and laid back, given that I did not find the stock tubes to be harsh or sibilant. The Freya N is a very nice-sounding pre-amp

Edit: Purchased some Raytheons and RCAs to see how much better it gets

I swap between quads of RCA Clear Top 6cg7 and Raytheon Japan 6cg7 in the Freya N in my speaker setup:

Denafrips Ares I -> Freya N -> Hypex NC252MP power amp -> KLH Model 5 / Magnepan LRS / Triangle Genese Trio / CSS Audio Criton 1-TD

It's completely subjective and my setup is very different from yours, but to my ears, the RCA Clear Top is the softest/most laid back sounding and the Raytheon are slightly more linear/snap everything into focus just a touch more. Not a huge difference but that is my impression. Both are enjoyable to me and I change them depending on mood and speakers that I am using.

Only other tubes I have tried were a pair of Amperex "Bugle Boy" 6DJ8/ECC88 in the right side with stock on the left side and I didn't really care for it. I had heard that the Bugle Boys were among the best noval tubes so I was disappointed. But looking back on it, I don't think I gave them a fair shot because I didn't balance the overall heater current by using 6H6P (800 mA) or 6N6P (750 mA) in the left side so the heater current was perhaps too low to hear their potential. I have since sold them and I am happy with the quads of 6cg7 tubes so I feel no need to spend any more money on tubes.

 

[sam6550a]

I swap between quads of RCA Clear Top 6cg7 and Raytheon Japan 6cg7 in the Freya N in my speaker setup:

Denafrips Ares I -> Freya N -> Hypex NC252MP power amp -> KLH Model 5 / Magnepan LRS / Triangle Genese Trio / CSS Audio Criton 1-TD

It's completely subjective and my setup is very different from yours, but to my ears, the RCA Clear Top is the softest/most laid back sounding and the Raytheon are slightly more linear/snap everything into focus just a touch more. Not a huge difference but that is my impression. Both are enjoyable to me and I change them depending on mood and speakers that I am using.

Only other tubes I have tried were a pair of Amperex "Bugle Boy" 6DJ8/ECC88 in the right side with stock on the left side and I didn't really care for it. I had heard that the Bugle Boys were among the best noval tubes so I was disappointed. But looking back on it, I don't think I gave them a fair shot because I didn't balance the overall heater current by using 6H6P (800 mA) or 6N6P (750 mA) in the left side so the heater current was perhaps too low to hear their potential. I have since sold them and I am happy with the quads of 6cg7 tubes so I feel no need to spend any more money on tubes.

Heater voltage is a constant, heater current is a function of the tube itself. Unlike plate current/operating point, tube filament current has nothing to do with the operating point [or sound] of the tube, filament power is only there to heat the cathode to promote thermionic emission. There will be no change in sound due to filament currents until you exceed the current capability of the filament supply and the voltage drops below the nominal voltage range.