[winders]

New addition: new tube takes #1 spot!

My person ranking:

CLASS A

1. Raytheon VT-231 flat plates - OMG!! This tube has it all. Extended highs, prodigious bass, and a sweet midrange. This is my new nirvana. This tube is seriously underrated.
2. Sylvania 6SN7W black base - simply awesome, all around
3. Kenrad VT-231 staggered plates - stunning bass, clear highs - simply awesome, almost tied with #2, but with slightly more visceral bass
4. RCA VT-231 grey glass - sweet, sweet midrange, slightly rolled off highs, but DAMN - nice for the right kind of music that emphasizes piano and vocals
5. Sylvania VT-231 - very, very neutral, a bit lacking in bass, good in buffer position

CLASS B

6. CBS 5692 / RCA 5692 - these tubes sound the same to me and, based on the hype, are a big disappointment. They do sound good but are flat, neutral, lacking bass, and just disappointing compared to #1 - #3.
7. GE 6SN7GT side getter - 1950s - good overall, not detail monsters, but good
8. Sylvania 6SN7GT chrome dome top getter - super yawn, boring, but better than #9 and #10

CLASS C

9. New production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB - these were a disappointment to me, fairly balanced but kind of veiled and syrupy - these suck compared to everything above
10. Stock Russian tubes that came with Freya - these suck hard compared to everything above

Still have not heard a new production tube that did not suck balls. Is it really that hard to manufacture a tube for audiophiles?

Got some Sylvania 6SN7GT bad boys on the way for my next evaluation.

Okay, I have had some time to listen to some tubes and form some impressions. I will follow your format as I have no better idea. This is a bit unfair to the tubes because I have not given any of the them enough hours to fully burn in. Here it goes:

Class A:

1. Raytheon VT-231 (Opposing Black Flat Plates ) - Best overall sound. Nice clarity and detail everywhere. Bass is strong but not over done. Soundstage is deep and has good height.
2. Ken-Rad VT-231 (Black “Staggered” Flat Plates, Copper Rods, Black Glass) - Very close to #1. I almost made it co-#1. The soundstage is not quite as deep.
3. Sylvania 6SN7W (Black Base, Short Bottle) A step below #1 and #2. This tube sounds great until I listen to #1 and #2. Less clarity up top and the bass in not as strong.


Class B:

4. Raytheon 6SN7WGT (Brown Base, Opposing Black Flat Plates) Not as good as the VT-231 but is very good overall. Maybe a good output buffer stage tube for the Raytheon VT-231.
5. RCA VT-231 (Grey Glass) - This tube sounds good but not great. Too much roll off in the highs and lack of detail in the bass.
6. Sylvania 6SN7GT (2 Hole version of "Bad Boy") - Same construction as Syl VT-231. I bought these for the output buffer stage but they sound quite good in the gain stage.
7. Sylvania 6SN7WGTA (Brown Base, 1966) - Great in output buffer stage but a little boring in the gain stage.

Class C:

8. The OE Russian tubes.

I bought another matched pair of the Raytheon VT-231 (Opposing Black Flat Plates) off eBay for $70. That's a steal!!

I have Sylvania 6SN7GT (3-hole Black Plates) "Bad Boy" tubes coming too. I can't wait to see if the hype is real or not.

 

[winders]

I am rolling with two of the 6H8C tubes that came with my Freya in the output buffer stage along with a pair of Sylvania 6SN7W tubes in the gain stage. I will give the 6H8C some time to burn-in and then listen to them more critically. But so far, they seem just fine. What have you guys found?

 

[Mike Thompson]

I have a new Freya as of about a week ago. I'm very happy with it. I was a little disappointed by the size of the holes for the tubes. The ones I was planning on using do not fit. I do, however, have some tube savers coming in which will hopefully solve the problem. In the mean time I'm using a new pair of Northern Electric 6SN7's on the gain side and still using the stock tubes on the other side. The Northern Electric's (Canadian Made) are new and require a little burn-in time but already are a significant upgrade over the stock tubes. I'm really happy with my Freya.

 

[acguitar84]

I have a new Freya as of about a week ago. I'm very happy with it. I was a little disappointed by the size of the holes for the tubes. The ones I was planning on using do not fit. I do, however, have some tube savers coming in which will hopefully solve the problem. In the mean time I'm using a new pair of Northern Electric 6SN7's on the gain side and still using the stock tubes on the other side. The Northern Electric's (Canadian Made) are new and require a little burn-in time but already are a significant upgrade over the stock tubes. I'm really happy with my Freya.

I saw those Northern Electric tubes at the tube store for 90 bucks a piece. They fit ok into the Freya? I'm thinking of a set myself for the gain side, then maybe tung sol on the other side. Or maybe just stick with stock tubes on the other side.

 

[Mike Thompson]

I have a new Freya as of about a week ago. I'm very happy with it. I was a little disappointed by the size of the holes for the tubes. The ones I was planning on using do not fit. I do, however, have some tube savers coming in which will hopefully solve the problem. In the mean time I'm using a new pair of Northern Electric 6SN7's on the gain side and still using the stock tubes on the other side. The Northern Electric's (Canadian Made) are new and require a little burn-in time but already are a significant upgrade over the stock tubes. I'm really happy with my Freya.

I paid a little more than that but it was Canadian dollars. They fit just fine. The bottom of the bottle just clears the metal.

 

[Sam Lord]

I have one important question and two unimportant comments. All help appreciated!

1) Will the Freya or Saga operate AT ALL without tubes in place? No mention in either manual but needed to ask, but I read this someplace once. Especially intrigued if the Freya FET buffer would work with nothing in the sockets.

2) Surprised that all the love for the RCA 5691 tubes has disappeared, I thought these were a favorite choice of Mike's.

3) Similarly, there was lots of praise for the new Tung-sols, now they are spawn of hell. And the Northern Electric tubes from Canada: nobody mentioned them for months, so I discounted them. Do those folks make any other good tubes? Will these like ALL new tubes lose their luster the same way? I'm agnostic about new vs. old, though I'm not going to buy a bundle of cheap old tubes only to test, and sort, ad infinitum, for problem samples like the experts. Life is too short.

 

[Mike Thompson]

Don't take my word for it but I'm pretty sure you can run the Freya without the tubes in place. It would certainly allow you to leave it on full time if you wanted to.

I'm very happy - so far - with the Northern Electric tubes I recently purchased. They sound great and (if you care) look great.

Mike

 

[winders]

I have one important question and two unimportant comments. All help appreciated!

1) Will the Freya or Saga operate AT ALL without tubes in place? No mention in either manual but needed to ask, but I read this someplace once. Especially intrigued if the Freya FET buffer would work with nothing in the sockets.

2) Surprised that all the love for the RCA 5691 tubes has disappeared, I thought these were a favorite choice of Mike's.

3) Similarly, there was lots of praise for the new Tung-sols, now they are spawn of hell. And the Northern Electric tubes from Canada: nobody mentioned them for months, so I discounted them. Do those folks make any other good tubes? Will these like ALL new tubes lose their luster the same way? I'm agnostic about new vs. old, though I'm not going to buy a bundle of cheap old tubes only to test, and sort, ad infinitum, for problem samples like the experts. Life is too short.

1. Yes, you can run Freya with no tubes and use either the passive or JFET buffer modes.

2. No love or hate here. I have not had the chance to listen to them. I was kind of hoping to find someone who was not impressed with them and convince them too let me try them with the option to buy.

3. I highly doubt any of the more expensive new tubes are better than the NOS tubes we can get for the same price or less.

 

[cskippy]

I've been using Freya without tubes for the last two weeks leaving it on 24/7. It stays nice and cool and sounds great in passive or JFET mode, although I prefer passive. I'm still undecided on which tubes I want to get and find passive has the most transparent sonics compared to stock tubes or JFET.

 

[winders]

If anyone here likes Ken-Rad VT-231 tubes, this seller has some good prices for matched pairs:

http://stores.ebay.com/totempole-99...H_TitleDesc=1&_fsub=7336610014&_sid=514927004

They are from India. I just bought a pair of clear glass Ken-Rad VT-231 tubes from them for $84 shipped. They don't have a lot of history on eBay but all the feedback is positive. I asked a question and had it answered quickly with the information I needed.

I verified that the tubes I ordered had the staggered plates and copper rods. These are WWII vintage. The clear glass tubes are the same sonically as the black glass tubes.

I'll post back about this with any issues or when I get the tubes.

 

[Pandahead]

I have one important question and two unimportant comments. All help appreciated!

1) Will the Freya or Saga operate AT ALL without tubes in place? No mention in either manual but needed to ask, but I read this someplace once. Especially intrigued if the Freya FET buffer would work with nothing in the sockets.

2) Surprised that all the love for the RCA 5691 tubes has disappeared, I thought these were a favorite choice of Mike's.

3) Similarly, there was lots of praise for the new Tung-sols, now they are spawn of hell. And the Northern Electric tubes from Canada: nobody mentioned them for months, so I discounted them. Do those folks make any other good tubes? Will these like ALL new tubes lose their luster the same way? I'm agnostic about new vs. old, though I'm not going to buy a bundle of cheap old tubes only to test, and sort, ad infinitum, for problem samples like the experts. Life is too short.

I still highly recommend Mike's RCA red base 5692 recommendation because mine are really fine, but like he said there may be some played out ones that are getting sold. I still stick by my old posts. Here's the new production: 2 Robert Shaw CV181, 2 Psvane best matched CV181 -T2's, 4 matched TungSol. They don't have the sound stage with precise imaging and dynamics in the listening room that the old production that I have serve up. It would be nice if they did. That's just how things have worked out for me so far. As far as cost some of the current production can get pricey too. I wonder what old production prices will be like in 5 years though. (2 of the 6H8C that came with Freya made so much noise they were unusable)

The JFET buffer is really fine. If tubes aren't an improvement or desire there's always that, so it's a nice option.

 

[Sam Lord]

Thanks to Mike, cskippy, winders, and (just now) Pandahead! The no-tube operation feature is very useful and ought to be added to the manuals. I have an unopened Saga purchased for a gift, and will try to see if passive mode and the remote volume function without tubes. A Freya is on its way for me . I have double socket savers for each socket, since I bought some fancy tubes. So I expect to run Freya without tubes fairly often because the buffer mode is well-liked and sometimes I'm not in a tube mood. Thanks winders for the NE tube report: I like to look at new tubes because a manufacturer has the best means of matching tubes, given the quantities. I agree about the general quality of NOS tubes, but again I don't want to spend a lot of time troubleshooting and measuring.

Don't take my word for it but I'm pretty sure you can run the Freya without the tubes in place. It would certainly allow you to leave it on full time if you wanted to.
I'm very happy - so far - with the Northern Electric tubes I recently purchased. They sound great and (if you care) look great. Mike

I've been using Freya without tubes for the last two weeks leaving it on 24/7. It stays nice and cool and sounds great in passive or JFET mode, although I prefer passive. I'm still undecided on which tubes I want to get and find passive has the most transparent sonics compared to stock tubes or JFET.

1. Yes, you can run Freya with no tubes and use either the passive or JFET buffer modes.
2. No love or hate here. I have not had the chance to listen to them. I was kind of hoping to find someone who was not impressed with them and convince them too let me try them with the option to buy.
3. I highly doubt any of the more expensive new tubes are better than the NOS tubes we can get for the same price or less.

 

[acguitar84]

It seems like, for tube use with Freya, a person only needs to secure 2 really good tubes for the power section, and then pretty much anything (stock tubes as well) can be used in the other two slots (going by the majority of tube rolling impressions).

 

[jseymour]

It seems like, for tube use with Freya, a person only needs to secure 2 really good tubes for the power section, and then pretty much anything (stock tubes as well) can be used in the other two slots (going by the majority of tube rolling impressions).

I must be the exception to that rule. Yesterday I received a pair of Ken-Rad VT-231 Black glass. I had them in the gain position and Sylvania 7N7 in the output buffer. Played music for at least 4 hours and was not completely thrilled and chalked it up to the Ken-Rads needing more burn in time. This morning I reversed them and was instantly impressed. Played music for over 2 hours and selections from the night before all sounded better. You never know. Tonight I will put in something different in the gain position and see what changes.

 

[Mike Thompson]

I've had good luck with some of the new tubes. I have been playing with the Northern Electric tubes and today i put in a matched pair of ShuGuang Art Treasure CV181-Z tubes on the right side and the Northern Electrics on the left. Sounds great. In fairness the ShuGuang's are well run in. I had to use tube savers on with the ShuGuang tubes but works really well.

That's one of the best things about audio in my opinion. It's subjective and just so enjoyable.