Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread.

[Anaxilus]

If Jason hasn't fallen off the wagon at least once or twice I'd be disappointed to say the least.  

 

[Jason Stoddard]

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If Jason hasn't fallen off the wagon at least once or twice I'd be disappointed to say the least.  

 
I've run out of fingers . . .

 

[Meoow]

USB or SPDIF is still a huge debate which involves "Cables" to make it even more complicated and making us audiophile spending extra huge money. I don't have much knowledges about these things but I did an experiment a while ago where I had my Fiio E17 connect in USB (stock cable) and SPDIF (Optical, a cheap $36) modes (Asus Xonar D2X soundcard) to my PC.
 
Gears:
Audio Techinca A900x
Sennheiser HD650
Grados Rs1i (housemate)
 
Music (can't remember =,=)
 
- What i found was that only the Grados was able to tells the differences between USB and Optical in only *certain songs (maybe so) and the rest just sounds exactly the same through out (all Flac). Conclusion was that USB sounded more neutral and uncoloured while Optical had somewhat fuller sound like comparing between the same song in Mp3 and Flac, where Optical sounded more like Flac quality.
 
Weird...but I think in the end both USB and SPDIF sound signature and quality wise , are exactly the same. That's why I am not go for the extra $100 USB for my Bifrost purchase. I hope it's a good decision

 

[hionhifi]

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I want one!

 

I second that emotion!

 

[stenjc]

I've been using a DS Pro Generation VA for what seems like forever, but lately the upgrade bug has been starting to itch and I'm wondering if something like the Bifrost or the Gungnir would improve on what I've already got? The Mike Moffat connection is of course intruiging, but has anyone compared a Bifrost with the older top of the line Theta DAC's? Could it be that $400 in 2012 buys you what $5000 couldn't 15 years ago?

 

[judmarc]

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I've been using a DS Pro Generation VA for what seems like forever, but lately the upgrade bug has been starting to itch and I'm wondering if something like the Bifrost or the Gungnir would improve on what I've already got? The Mike Moffat connection is of course intruiging, but has anyone compared a Bifrost with the older top of the line Theta DAC's? Could it be that $400 in 2012 buys you what $5000 couldn't 15 years ago?

 
I don't have exactly what you're looking for, but perhaps this will do until something else comes along that's closer.
 
I owned a Pro Basic II upgraded to Balanced, so not top of the line, and around 20 years old, so older than yours.  The Bifrost was clearly better in my listening, and that was before it was fully burned in.
 
Another consideration: Schiit has two DACs coming along in the next while - Gungnir in ~August, top of the line by sometime late this year or early next? - so you may want to hear one or both of those first.

 

[yeehc0729]

just got my bitfrost last week, been loving it so far. However, It cant play 24/192, 24/88.2 flac though Foobar2k wasapi. Also it only shows up to 24/96 in spdif device.I have the non USB model. I am feeding it though desktop Win7 Ultimate, onboard soundcard (via vt2021)>optical out>bitfrost>rca to HA540. any help would be appreciate.

 

[Defiant00]

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just got my bitfrost last week, been loving it so far. However, It cant play 24/192, 24/88.2 flac though Foobar2k wasapi. Also it only shows up to 24/96 in spdif device.I have the non USB model. I am feeding it though desktop Win7 Ultimate, onboard soundcard (via vt2021)>optical out>bitfrost>rca to HA540. any help would be appreciate.

 
Using SPDIF your computer has no idea what the signal is going to, it's just outputting the digital signal through the optical connection and assuming something's on the other end, so any limitations would be from your onboard sound not the Bifrost.

 

[yeehc0729]

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Using SPDIF your computer has no idea what the signal is going to, it's just outputting the digital signal through the optical connection and assuming something's on the other end, so any limitations would be from your onboard sound not the Bifrost.

thank you for the reply.that makes sense to me..I look up my onboard sound card and it state "

2 independent 16/20/24-bit S/PDIF TX Outputs supporting 48K/96K/44.1K/88.2 KHz sample rate". I am guessing that 88.2KHz wasn't support by the optical out on the back panel, since theres another "internel optical out" for expansion card?  I uninstalled the VIA audio driver and use the windows audio drvier, it can play both 88.2k/192k. In the sound option, the name changed to digital audio spdif instead of SPDIF interface when using the VIA driver. But I think using the VIA driver sounds better, no sure if thats a placebo tho. Can someone explain this?

 

[Defiant00]

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thank you for the reply.that makes sense to me..I look up my onboard sound card and it state "

2 independent 16/20/24-bit S/PDIF TX Outputs supporting 48K/96K/44.1K/88.2 KHz sample rate". I am guessing that 88.2KHz wasn't support by the optical out on the back panel, since theres another "internel optical out" for expansion card?  I uninstalled the VIA audio driver and use the windows audio drvier, it can play both 88.2k/192k. In the sound option, the name changed to digital audio spdif instead of SPDIF interface when using the VIA driver. But I think using the VIA driver sounds better, no sure if thats a placebo tho. Can someone explain this?

 
If both are actually doing bit-perfect data passing to the Bifrost then yeah it's placebo, but it's certainly possible that one (or both) of the drivers are actually doing something else to the data before passing it on.
 
When it comes to the sample rates supported by the drivers I  couldn't say for sure, but it certainly sounds like the info you found matches with what you've experienced except for the 88.2 (and sounds like that's a driver issue if the Windows driver actually works properly at 88.2). As far as the name change in sound options, I'm pretty sure that's defined by the driver used so that doesn't surprise me.

 

[judmarc]

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If both are actually doing bit-perfect data passing to the Bifrost then yeah it's placebo, but it's certainly possible that one (or both) of the drivers are actually doing something else to the data before passing it on.

 
Maybe not - entirely possible for two bit-perfect sources to sound different.  For example, one could be a coax out while the other could be optical.  Or one could have more jitter than the other.  Or one could pass along more electrical noise from the computer to the DAC and the rest of the system (not with optical, though, obviously, only with electrical connections - but with optical jitter can be more of a factor).  So there are several different possibilities, and I'm sure others I haven't thought of.

 

[O8h7w]

That would be the signal integrity of the connection itself, whether or not all those bits really make it to the receiver in recognizable shape. Between jitter, noise and signal integrity, I think we have the variables of digital connections pinned down. Please, someone with better knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Remember that on top of this, there's the use of different formats which may make these variables more or less relevant. ( As well as they differ in their ability to represent the audio from the very beginning, which is a completely different topic. )

 

[yeehc0729]

The weird thing is that my onboard sound card only support up to 24/96k for optical out, then why using the windows driver makes it able to output 24/196k? I use both driver with the same set up and bit perfect through foobar2k wasapi.

 

[Mr.Tom]

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I've been using a DS Pro Generation VA for what seems like forever, but lately the upgrade bug has been starting to itch and I'm wondering if something like the Bifrost or the Gungnir would improve on what I've already got? The Mike Moffat connection is of course intruiging, but has anyone compared a Bifrost with the older top of the line Theta DAC's? Could it be that $400 in 2012 buys you what $5000 couldn't 15 years ago?

I'm still running a MUSE model 2+ in my living room, it's got to be close to 20 years old and cost over $2k. It's smooth as silk with little detail compared to the Bifrost. I'd say the Bifrost smokes in in every way! I AB'd it with speakers, but it's too big and heavy to used at my computer. So no headphone compare.
 
So far the Bifrost is the smoothest and most detailed DAC I've owned. I've never heard a DAC get so deep in the details without also getting harsh.

 

[Defiant00]

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Maybe not - entirely possible for two bit-perfect sources to sound different.  For example, one could be a coax out while the other could be optical.  Or one could have more jitter than the other.  Or one could pass along more electrical noise from the computer to the DAC and the rest of the system (not with optical, though, obviously, only with electrical connections - but with optical jitter can be more of a factor).  So there are several different possibilities, and I'm sure others I haven't thought of.

 
Well yes, but when the only difference is the driver he's using then if they're both bit-perfect they should be the same since they're going through the exact same hardware.