[Saintly]

Quote:

 
I hope is different from the V200. BTW, I was not impressed with the Benchmark sound, and not with the hps amp section.

To each his own.  You also love the K701/702 above all else, so we have a resounding YMMV right here.
 

 

[Acix]

Quote:

 You also love the K701/702 above all else...

What this have to do?
 

 

[Saintly]

Quote:

What this have to do?
 

Your preferences are rather esoteric. 
 

 

[Naim.F.C]

Unlike headphones, amps/DAC's etc don't have the luxury of tinkering with physical and ergonomic designs the way headphones do (cup size, shape etc), so if a certain headphone has a wider soundstage, more intimate sound etc from a DAC or AMP, it is most probably due to the products afflictions on specific frequencies in sound.
 
 
I was going to wait to add some of this to my eventual review, but I'll just go ahead and say some of it now.
 
I am not in the least bit surprised that someone mentioned the V100 has a wider soundstage than the V200. But I'd also harbour a guess as to the difference being incremental at best, and anything more being an exaggeration or placebo on the part of the listener. My prediction as to why the V200 sounds more intimate is actually pretty basic and simple, that being the V200's very subtle colour or should I say, intentional extension to sub bass.
 
Imo certain frequencies can affect the perception of soundstage, and even playing around with EQ's (especially on IEM's) can highlight this. Less sub bass, lesser low mids and increased highs imo all open up soundstage and provide for a more airy or distant sound. Increased sub bass, upper mids, recessed highs etc, all provide a more intimate, less wide or open sound.
 
This is not to say that the sound IS actually narrower, only the perception of it, because certain frequencies drown out or encumber others, thus giving that illusion. I.e, increased sub bass taking attention away from that tiny little tap far in the distance of a certain track, a single sound that would have otherwise given the illusion of great width.
 
 
Earlier someone posted an email from Fried stating that the V200 was more "musical" than the V100. Many people had no idea what that actually meant, but now that I have the amp to test, I think I have some idea as to what he may have meant.
 
With the V200, I think the smoothness attribute or discriptor is mainly due to the increased sub bass extension offering up a very moody or black low end glaze and punch, balancing off the highs somewhat. I also think that the amp may have a slight boost to the upper mids, again, probably to balance things out and ensure there is no loss of detail despite the extra sub bass. In order not to stray too far from "neutral" or "true" sound however, all these differences are very subtle.
 
Whilst these changes make the V200 very subtly musical, natural sounding and smooth, they do have the adverse affect of making it's presentation appear slightly more intimate. I'll save more detailed impressions and findings for my actual review.
 
 
 
Suffice to say, I do find the V200 to be an exceptional amp. For my personal tastes, it is the best solid state amp I've ever tried. Not for everything mind, but on the whole, the smoothness of sound, with that rich kick in the upper mids and addictive addition of some low end oomph, it really suits me well. Suits the T1 even better. Having said that, these changes are extremely subtle and not glaring, so it's not going to offer colour too far from the neutral path.

 

[Acix]

Hehehe, I hope the extra 9 SUPRA OP amps are not there just for the ****s and giggles.

 
 
Quote:

I see your point Acix as both boards are vastly different, but I have spoken with the guys at SPL and they told me the Phonitor has a more complex circuit board to house the crossfeed circuitry. They told me the Auditor is the purist version of the Phonitor and uses a redesigned board as it does not have the imaging options. I was also told that since the board has much less in the signal path and gives the amp a cleaner sound due to lower distortion and less crosstalk. When I asked how they sound they responded saying that without the crossfeed circuit that they should sound the same. So the Auditor board is a revised version of the Phonitor's and yield cleaner performance.
 
You also can not judge how they sound by looking at the internal shots. My X-CANV8P looks basic inside but sounds very good.
 


 
 

 

 

[Zombie_X]

No they are there for operating the various imaging options the Phonitor has (more like processing I guess). That is what I have gathered from my e-mails with SPL, but I will e-mail them again to make sure.
 
Quote:

Hehehe, I hope the extra 9 SUPRA OP amps are not there just for the ****s and giggles.

 
 

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

Unlike headphones, amps/DAC's etc don't have the luxury of tinkering with physical and ergonomic designs the way headphones do (cup size, shape etc), so if a certain headphone has a wider soundstage, more intimate sound etc from a DAC or AMP, it is most probably due to the products afflictions on specific frequencies in sound.
 
 
I was going to wait to add some of this to my eventual review, but I'll just go ahead and say some of it now.
 
I am not in the least bit surprised that someone mentioned the V100 has a wider soundstage than the V200. But I'd also harbour a guess as to the difference being incremental at best, and anything more being an exaggeration or placebo on the part of the listener. My prediction as to why the V200 sounds more intimate is actually pretty basic and simple, that being the V200's very subtle colour or should I say, intentional extension to sub bass.
 
Imo certain frequencies can affect the perception of soundstage, and even playing around with EQ's (especially on IEM's) can highlight this. Less sub bass, lesser low mids and increased highs imo all open up soundstage and provide for a more airy or distant sound. Increased sub bass, upper mids, recessed highs etc, all provide a more intimate, less wide or open sound.
 
This is not to say that the sound IS actually narrower, only the perception of it, because certain frequencies drown out or encumber others, thus giving that illusion. I.e, increased sub bass taking attention away from that tiny little tap far in the distance of a certain track, a single sound that would have otherwise given the illusion of great width.
 
 
Earlier someone posted an email from Fried stating that the V200 was more "musical" than the V100. Many people had no idea what that actually meant, but now that I have the amp to test, I think I have some idea as to what he may have meant.
 
With the V200, I think the smoothness attribute or discriptor is mainly due to the increased sub bass extension offering up a very moody or black low end glaze and punch, balancing off the highs somewhat. I also think that the amp may have a slight boost to the upper mids, again, probably to balance things out and ensure there is no loss of detail despite the extra sub bass. In order not to stray too far from "neutral" or "true" sound however, all these differences are very subtle.
 
Whilst these changes make the V200 very subtly musical, natural sounding and smooth, they do have the adverse affect of making it's presentation appear slightly more intimate. I'll save more detailed impressions and findings for my actual review.
 
 
 
Suffice to say, I do find the V200 to be an exceptional amp. For my personal tastes, it is the best solid state amp I've ever tried. Not for everything mind, but on the whole, the smoothness of sound, with that rich kick in the upper mids and addictive addition of some low end oomph, it really suits me well. Suits the T1 even better. Having said that, these changes are extremely subtle and not glaring, so it's not going to offer colour too far from the neutral path.

I am bummed out that you have to sell your V200 after only a short period with it but I think having your own place is of course well worth the sacrifice.  Good luck with your flat I hope you get it!
 
In terms of the V200 soundstage I have been able to actually increase the soundstage in my rig (W4S DAC-2, V200, LCD-2 r.2) by adding a Shunyata Venom 3 power cord to the DAC-2.  This not only increased the dimensionality of the entire rig but also increased the   width of the sound stage.  Many folks have found a Venom 3 to be most helpful on their digital source.  then when I added another Venom 3 to my V200 the inertia of the benefits form the Venom 3 on the DAC-2 carried into the V200.  Not nearly as dramatic a change as the DAC-2 Venom 3 combo but it did carry into it.  So now I have a larger soundstage than I had before. More than I realized I could have.  So I guess my point is that there can be other factors limiting or  increasing soundstage than just a basic setup.  even the addition of the Q cable helped.  The synergy of the three pieces of gear and the two power cords and one headphone cable have come together to give me a larger wider soundstage than I had previous to the two power cords.  Also going Balanced out of the DAC-2 and balanced into the V200 also helped open things up.   

 

[Zombie_X]

I agree, balancing does seem to make the sound crisper with more definition. It really does help open the sound up.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorAnt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Also going Balanced out of the DAC-2 and balanced into the V200 also helped open things up.   

 

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

I agree, balancing does seem to make the sound crisper with more definition. It really does help open the sound up.
 

I had almost forgotten the benefit of going balanced out of the W4S DAC-2 into the V200.  Right now I'm using a set of XLR cables from W4S but I recently found a pair of Black Mountain Pinnacle cables Silver/Gold alpine wire (yet to be shipped) that I couldn't resist so I'm waiting to try those out between the DAC and the V200.  One thing I noticed with the V200 is that it really shows the differences in cable changes wether it is an interconnect or headphone cable.
 

 

[krod3003]

WarriorAnt you gotta let me listen to your rig someday. I've been looking for a good DAC and the W4S Dac-2 is in my crosshairs.

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

WarriorAnt you gotta let me listen to your rig someday. I've been looking for a good DAC and the W4S Dac-2 is in my crosshairs.

Are you going to the Phoenix meet in March? 
 
I really like the digital pre amp in the W4S DAC-2.  I'm using it right now to feed a pair of DARED VP-20 tube mono block amps a friend sent to me.  Very dimensional.  

 

[baritone]

hi all
every time i read about the sound stage dimensions depth and wide  no body had tried to measure to get numbers
we all change  cables dacs ops hpamp hp to achieve what we want but one thing is not taken in account @@ our hearing biological system @@ that is not perfect and not stable as we can think
hormones affects moods affects  light and smells also affects in other words this is a virtual parameter that is a result of a complex mix of  personal human hearing /electronics and phisyologic
interaction that give a result called sound dimension and sound depth IMO cooper  wire can not change this

 

[Acix]

Quote:

hi all
every time i read about the sound stage dimensions depth and wide  no body had tried to measure to get numbers
we all change  cables dacs ops hpamp hp to achieve what we want but one thing is not taken in account @@ our hearing biological system @@ that is not perfect and not stable as we can think
hormones affects moods affects  light and smells also affects in other words this is a virtual parameter that is a result of a complex mix of  personal human hearing /electronics and phisyologic
interaction that give a result called sound dimension and sound depth IMO cooper  wire can not change this

Good point Baritone, in my experience changing the K702 cable with Mogami cable I've got a better sound separation /definition. in my case the change was around 15-20%, maybe is not dramatic for others but if I'll get 20% on every component of my system I'll be very happy.
 
Since you're in Israel, and not so far from me, I'll be glad to conduct with you this experiment and to announce our findings...
 

 

[Naim.F.C]

This amp has an uncanny ability to make vocals sound absolutely real. Just gives that tiny bit of added body and weight that transports them from sounding recorded to sounding like they're right there with you. Hate to beat a dead horse, but smooth really is the best way to describe the V200 sound sig. It's just so non fatiguing and natural.

 

[WarriorAnt]

 


Quote:

hi all
every time i read about the sound stage dimensions depth and wide  no body had tried to measure to get numbers
we all change  cables dacs ops hpamp hp to achieve what we want but one thing is not taken in account @@ our hearing biological system @@ that is not perfect and not stable as we can think
hormones affects moods affects  light and smells also affects in other words this is a virtual parameter that is a result of a complex mix of  personal human hearing /electronics and phisyologic
interaction that give a result called sound dimension and sound depth IMO cooper  wire can not change this

Numbers and measurements?  Take it to the appropriate forum.  The science forum. They have plenty of threads there for that.  In this thread we use our ears.