[king.mark]

What makes you think the B22 is the better choice?
I know the the B22 has proofed it self over and over to be among the very best SS amps.
But SPLs design is new and professional so I hope that it will be in the same league.

 

[Gradofan2]

My perspective is that the B22 will have much better components than most any commercial amp in its price range, as well as a great design developed after much experimentation by highly experienced dedicated headphone amp developers, rather than corporate engineers assigned to "a project."

Moreover, the B22 will not have the corporate "overhead cost" to be loaded into the price, or the magnitude of the profit margin.

In essence you are getting a much greater value - inherent in DIY products.

Now... all of that does not assure that the B22 would necessarily sound better than the Auditor. But... without the unique supplemental controls of the Phonitor... its just another commercial SS amp. The acclaim the Phonitor has received, has been related directly to its unique "speaker-like" soundstage, and nothing more. So... it does not follow that the Auditor would necessarily sound any better than any other good SS amp in that price range.

Don't make the mistake of "projecting" the sound quality of the Phonitor, that results from its special controls and its "tunable, speaker-like" soundstage to the Auditor, which does not have the controls, or that unique soundstage.

In fact... if I were going to invest in a commercial amp in the EU, other than the Phonitor with its unique soundstage, it would be the GS Solo SRG, or one of the Rudistors for a little more. Though, it is possible that the Auditor might sound as good as these other amps, its not proven, as these others are.

 

[bizkid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now... all of that does not assure that the B22 would necessarily sound better than the Auditor. But... without the unique supplemental controls of the Phonitor... its just another commercial SS amp. The acclaim the Phonitor has received, has been related directly to its unique "speaker-like" soundstage, and nothing more.

Wow dont spread your crap around here. You might want to read those reviews again. I never use the crossfeed on my phonitor and i still rank it higher than any other solidstate amp i ever heard (LOTS). And once again it's not speaker-like, it's simple crossfeed.
The other phonitor owners here on head-fi came to similar conclusions regardless of the crossfeed.
No offence but that crap rudistor makes in his garage is no competition.

 

[Drosera]

Hmm, I don't think you're making a good case for a certain product if you have to do it by badmouthing products from other companies. Certainly if you haven't done any direct comparisons.

 

[bizkid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm, I don't think you're making a good case for a certain product if you have to do it by badmouthing products from other companies. Certainly if you haven't done any direct comparisons.

Woobdiedoo, I dont have an agenda for anyone, I dont need to defend anything, i certainly don't need to push any companies product. I just don't like wild speculation from people who never even heard a particular piece of gear, especially as absurd as this one. And yes i have heard some Rudistors. Have you ever looked inside one? You dont need to be an EE genius to put things into relation.
So it's ok for someone who havent even heard BOTH amps to speculate how they would compare? How useless is that?
I have heard the phonitor and some rudistors and i made my points. Thank you.

 

[smeggy]

I'm sure it's a damn fine amp, like the Beta. I doubt I'll ever get the chance to hear one but I'm sure I can get by with the beta

 

[knopi]

I have to only agree with Bizkid. Phonitor is professional product from great company. if I had the money I would always rather buy this professional products as are SPL, Chord, Emm labs etc.. And I also couldn't say that Auditor is another SS ampfiler without listening compared, it is not fair write "I think" or draw conclusions and mindlessly throw dirt. I guess speculation is normal here on head-fi..

 

[Townyj]

I have been interested from day one when the Auditor hit the market and i must say that slander such as Gradofan's is a little over the top. Since no one has heard this amp at all, why are we even talking about how the sound may or may not be. To be honest I have not heard a B22, but i would definitely like to hear how these two go against one another in the future. These forums can be typical for arguement's! What's better etc etc. But we all know in the end it comes down to what the person enjoys as sound and how much you are willing to spend on an item. Im really looking forward to impression's on the "Auditor"

 

[Gradofan2]

Well... you guys can blindly defend an untested product all you want... but... the fact remains that no commercial product can compete with a DIY product regarding the "value proposition" - of course "all other things being equal."

I don't understand such "blind loyalty" to any commercial product, which is not designed by headphone afficinados, who focus only on designing the best headphone products.

And... as far as the Phonitor vs the Auditor... you apparently missed the review comments that made it quite clear, that its "claim to fame" was primarily its unique soundstage, and the ability to "tune" the soundstage to compare to your speakers' soundstage.

Beyond that, it offers nothing unique - certainly at its inflated "commercial" price. There is simply no way anyone can rationally argue, that any "commercial" product provides equal, or better, value (price / performance) than an equivalent DIY product (of course all other things being equal - e.g. currency rates, etc.).

And... I should clarify... that I consider "boutique" products to be DIY products (e.g. Woo Audio amps, MAD amps, etc.).

Now... I do not discriminate against any "commercial" product - I'm big supporter of GS, and MF products. But... they do not represent the true value, that other DIY products do (e.g. Millett MiniMax, etc.).

But... hey... if you want to go "blindly" down that path, based on the Phonitor reviews and its unique sound - by all means... "be my guest."

 

[M3NTAL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well... you guys can blindly defend an untested product all you want... but... the fact remains that no commercial product can compete with a DIY product regarding the "value proposition" - of course "all other things being equal." I don't understand such "blind loyalty" to any commercial product, which is not designed by headphone afficinados, who focus only on designing the best headphone products. And... as far as the Phonitor vs the Auditor... you apparently missed the review comments that made it quite clear, that its "claim to fame" was primarily its unique soundstage, and the ability to "tune" the soundstage to compare to your speakers' soundstage. Beyond that, it offers nothing unique - certainly at its inflated "commercial" price. There is simply no way anyone can rationally argue, that any "commercial" product provides equal, or better, value (price / performance) than an equivalent DIY product (of course all other things being equal - e.g. currency rates, etc.). And... I should clarify... that I consider "boutique" products to be DIY products (e.g. Woo Audio amps, MAD amps, etc.). Now... I do not discriminate against any "commercial" product - I'm big supporter of GS, and MF products. But... they do not represent the true value, that other DIY products do (e.g. Millett MiniMax, etc.). But... hey... if you want to go "blindly" down that path, based on the Phonitor reviews and its unique sound - by all means... "be my guest."

Well answered!

 

[mopps]

Quote:

Originally Posted by king.mark /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well so far the lucky ones that tried the Phonitor also tried it with the effects switched off and from what I'm reading they are very impressed. Since I'm just interested in an SS amp that brings my HD800s to really shine my personal choices are B22 or Auditor. I finally decided to go with the Auditor and hope that the unique new amp technology of SPL really is excellent.

Then I'm the only one who isn't too much impressed by the Phonitor, I guess?

Sure, the different effects of all the settings and their combinations were clearly audible, like the different speaker angles. But I can't say it was that realistic, like sitting in front of a speaker system. It was just a little improvement of the three-dimensionality, IME. Maybe my ears are more sensitive to the S-Logic stuff than to crossfeed circuits.

OTOH I was REALLY impressed by the outstanding dynamic and power of the Phonitor which I've never heard before in this intensity. Very amazing!

But in the end I got the feeling that the Phonitor didn't match very well with my Edition 9 which I brought to the listening session. The Phonitor gave it an extremely bloated bass (which is a thin line with the Edition 9). IMO my Lake People G99/2, also a professional studio amp, gave me a more neutral and balanced sound. So I refrained from buying the Phonitor.

 

[bizkid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well... you guys can blindly defend an untested product all you want... but... the fact remains that no commercial product can compete with a DIY product regarding the "value proposition" - of course "all other things being equal." I don't understand such "blind loyalty" to any commercial product, which is not designed by headphone afficinados, who focus only on designing the best headphone products.

What blind loyality are you talking about? I have owned more headphone amps than i like to admit during the last 6 years, all from completely different brands and various DIY kinds (b22 being the last one). I'm not loyal to any company. As soon something better comes out i'll drop the SPL stuff like a hot stone

But until today there isnt such a SS amp.

SPLs goal with the phonitor was infact to design the best headphone amp. This surely doesnt need some voodoo "headphone only" EE knowledge to accomplish. SPL knows alot more about what they're doing than most of the companies build around head-fi. I could name a few big names who ripped of exisiting designs but that will lead nowhere.

Otherwise this is useless to continue as you have nothing to backup you lame claims of DIY designs being superior. If you come with indepth measurements and comparisons you're welcome.

Oh and please point me to those reviews, because i obviously i must have missed them.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/spl...eviews-428760/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/spl...ce-amp-329765/

These mention the basic amping capabilites AS WELL AS the crossfeed implementation. Did you even read those?

 

[Kane-DK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif "be my guest."

It really doesn't seem that way. I really can't understand your need to bring down these products. If you're not interested in them, and you have clearly stated that you aren't, why on earth use your energy on this threadcrapping?

 

[Gradofan2]

Yes... I have read quite a few review comments re: the Phonitor...

... and... here are some of the several that impressed me... which suggest it is the unique soundstage that most distinguishes the Phonitor... particularly... as it relates to the introduction of the Auditor.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/spl...65/index9.html

Moreover... its not remotely rational that SPL could have "discovered" some new design that would cause the sound quality of their amps to well exceed the many other great amps in their price ranges... or... much lower (in the case of various DIY / boutique amps)... except for the reports of "speaker-like soundstage" in the case of the Phonitor.

However... it is rational that they might have developed some new approach to processing the sound that would produce a speaker like soundstage that would distinguish the Phonitor... or... the Auditor, should they add the sound processing controls to it. That is most interesting aspect of the Phonitor, by far.

After all Smyth seems to have done so...

Which is, after all, my primary interest in the SPL, and Smyth products - the other more commonplace aspects of their sound quality, are of little interest to me - since they're provided by many other products, at more competitive prices (particularly in the case of DIY / boutique amps) - back to the "value proposition."

Nor, except in the case of the Chinese made amps, is there any rational argument that DIY / boutique amps do not provide a much greater "value proposition" than virtually all commercial products. Is there an exception somewhere... perhaps... but, I know of none. Do some commercial amps sound very good... perhaps, as good as DIY / boutique amps - sure... but... typically at much higher prices.

So... for me... the only rational justification for compromising the focus on the "value proposition" is... "all together now"... some unique aspect of these products, which create a realistic, speaker-like, soundstage... which is paticularly noteworthy, since these are seemingly the only two products (the Phonitor and the Realiser) that suggest they provide that (so far as I'm aware). And... in the case of the Realiser... it is really unique... perhaps "revolutionary." Such a unique quality... might justify their higher prices - at least until a competitor is available.

 

[king.mark]

You make a lot of assumptions about the amps.
I guess that if the Auditor was $3000 and the Phonitor double that you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
Fact is that several members tried the amp and the vast majority was not just impressed by the sound processing but by the amps sound itself.
So if you have no evidence, other than your assumptions, that the Auditor not a top amp that's able to make top phones like the HD800 shine, then I thank you for your input. We all get your opinion and fear not, you will not be forced to buy one.