[slim.a]

Quote:

I've found the DAC19-DSP to be very sensitive to the digital signal which it is fed. I would suggest using a USB/SPDIF converter over straight USB but ultimately it comes down to what sounds good to you in your system.

I believe that audio-gd should never have included the usb input on the dac19, even with people pressuring them to do so. Using the dac19dsp from its usb input is like using a top tier headphone from an ipod: you might get sound but you are not using the equipment to its full potential.
I believe that your experience is similar to that of many others and that spdif is the way to go for people looking for the best sound possible.
 
Quote:

From my experience I would suggest you to go with the Digital Interface from Audio-gd, and I'm quite sure everybody which has tried it or have it would recommand you so.
I've had m2tech HiFace which was "the better" USB interface before DI launched, I had it modded by jkeny, and I must say the DI outclasses it easily.
Personally I've put a RCA to RCA adapter directly between DI and DAC-19, so that I get rid of cable and I'm very pleased with that cheap yet best sounding option I had. I tried several adapters and found a good one but each are performing good.

My experience with the Digital Interface vs. Jkeny's Hiface MK1 is slightly different.
 
Playing straight 44.1K (RBCD) files through both units, I personally found the JK MK1 superior sounding.
It is only after I upgraded the clock on the DI (w/ a Tentlabs), turned on the upsampling to 96K and plugged the external PS of the DI into a power filter that I subjectively preferred the DI.
Moreover, I found the results of the Jkeny MK1 to be more consistent when used with different system and different DACs.
However, for whatever reason, there seems to be some "synergy" between the DI and the dac19dsp and, under the $200 mark, the DI is hard to beat. And as it has been mentioned previously, subjective tastes and preference will also play an important factor.
 
My main complaint with the DI is that it doesn't support the 88.2K rate from its usb input, contrary to the Kingrex UC192 (reviewed here) or the Hiface. I am currently using the Musiland into the spdif input of the DI to get the 88.2K support. As a side effect, the sound is different through the spdif input (mainly a bigger and deeper soundstage).
 
Overall, with long term listening, I feel that the DI is still the bottleneck in my system right now. After discussing with Currawong, I ordered an Audiophilleo usb converter, which seems to have lifted the performance of his dsp1 Ref1 considerably. I will report back the results when paired with the dac19dsp when the AP2 gets here.
 
 
 

 

[thebathingape]

Quote:

I believe that audio-gd should never have included the usb input on the dac19, even with people pressuring them to do so. Using the dac19dsp from its usb input is like using a top tier headphone from an ipod: you might get sound but you are not using the equipment to its full potential.
I believe that your experience is similar to that of many others and that spdif is the way to go for people looking for the best sound possible. 
My experience with the Digital Interface vs. Jkeny's Hiface MK1 is slightly different.
 
Playing straight 44.1K (RBCD) files through both units, I personally found the JK MK1 superior sounding.
It is only after I upgraded the clock on the DI (w/ a Tentlabs), turned on the upsampling to 96K and plugged the external PS of the DI into a power filter that I subjectively preferred the DI.
Moreover, I found the results of the Jkeny MK1 to be more consistent when used with different system and different DACs.
However, for whatever reason, there seems to be some "synergy" between the DI and the dac19dsp and, under the $200 mark, the DI is hard to beat. And as it has been mentioned previously, subjective tastes and preference will also play an important factor.
 
My main complaint with the DI is that it doesn't support the 88.2K rate from its usb input, contrary to the Kingrex UC192 (reviewed here) or the Hiface. I am currently using the Musiland into the spdif input of the DI to get the 88.2K support. As a side effect, the sound is different through the spdif input (mainly a bigger and deeper soundstage).
 
Overall, with long term listening, I feel that the DI is still the bottleneck in my system right now. After discussing with Currawong, I ordered an Audiophilleo usb converter, which seems to have lifted the performance of his dsp1 Ref1 considerably. I will report back the results when paired with the dac19dsp when the AP2 gets here.
 
 
 

 
I just got the DI a few days ago and I am experiencing the same with upsampling. Straight with no upsampling the sound was abit to heavy and "sticky" in a way. 
I actually preferred straight usb input on my NFB-8 since it sounded lighter and more dynamic. 
 
Even though I only burned in the DI maybe 50 hours I didn't believe it could change so much that those problems would go away.
 
I then enabled upsamling to 192khz. I also have the TCXO upgrade.
 
The sound now is really something I like and I could hear it straight away even though the TCXO is brand new. Best pc source for me up to now and many steps in the right direction.
 
 
 

 
 

 

[treal512]

Thanks for the input and explanations everyone. Does anyone have experience or comments on the V-LINK? I'm intrigued by the DI because of the synergy talk, but I don't want to get a power filter and have to do all the other upgrades. My current route is AudioQuest USB > V-LINK > AudioQuest Coax > DAC19 DSP1 > DH Labs RCA > HK730 receiver > Norse Norn cable > LCD-2. I still plan to do experimenting of my own, but other experience in welcomed.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Thanks for the input and explanations everyone. Does anyone have experience or comments on the V-LINK? I'm intrigued by the DI because of the synergy talk, but I don't want to get a power filter and have to do all the other upgrades. My current route is AudioQuest USB > V-LINK > AudioQuest Coax > DAC19 DSP1 > DH Labs RCA > HK730 receiver > Norse Norn cable > LCD-2. I still plan to do experimenting of my own, but other experience in welcomed.

I don't have any direct experience with the V-Link, however it seems to be well reviewed. In case you think jitter measurements are relevant for digital transports, you can find Stereophile measurements here: http://www.stereophile.com/content/musical-fidelity-v-link-usb-spdif-converter-measurements
The V-Link was measured to be on par with the Stello U2 and slightly more jittery than the Halid Bridge.
 
Of course, those measurements won't tell you how it will sound in your system, but it is async and it supports the 88.2K sample rate in case you have or intend to get high rez files at that particular frequency.
I personally believe that there will be an increasing number of 88.2K and 176.4K files. Indeed, the math used to convert DSD files to 96K/192K sample rates is a lot more complicated than the one used to convert DSD to 44.1K/88.2K (non integers vs. integers). So to me, the 88.2K support is very important as you don't have to worry about what upsampler to use for those type of files.

 

[slim.a]

A quick update that might interest dac19dsp users and perhaps also Ref1/Ref7... users:
 
While it was mentioned that the DSP1 used in audio-gd DACs should be insensitive to the quality of the transport, it is clearly not the case for all those who have experimented with different transports.

I got an Audiophilleo2 last week, and the improvement in sound in comparison with the "tweaked" Audio-gd DI is impressive. There is no shift on tonal balance but there is simply more of everything: more refinement, more resolution, greater transparency, better extension at the frequency extremes, more details, better imaging...
 
I don't know if the big lift in performance should be considered as a sign of transparency of the digital input stage or, on the contrary, as a sign of poor jitter rejection.  But whatever the explanation might be, I highly recommend to owners of audio-gd dsp1 based DACs to try their DACs with the best source they can get their hands on ... as they might be surprise with the results.

 

[FauDrei]

I can confirm Amine's (and Curra's previous) notions on DSP-1 sensitivity to transport quality on RE-1/7. RE-1/7 substantially improves with better transport.
 
In fact, the magnitude of RE-1/7 SQ improvement with transport quality scaling is amazing, especially when considering that R2R DACs should be less susceptible to jitter. No ΣΔ DAC I have tried with various transports have shown that much improvement. Now I completely understand why KingWa rates his own DI as mid-fi in comparison with, also his, CD-7 transport. At the moment, audiophilleo2 is also my pick as best USB/SPDIF converter. It just "hangs" on the back of my RE-1/7 (BNC/BNC adapter; no SPDIF cable) and I consider it as an integral "USB extension" of the RE.
 
DSP-1 filter transparency or poor jitter handling? I would say transparency - because RE-1/7 ordinary fares better and scales much, much better than ΣΔ counterparts with same USB/SPDIF transports. Of course, there is always possibility that this is not due to DSP-1 transparency but due to PCM1704 DAC chips qualities and/or my subjective SQ preferences.
 
So, also I recommend DSP-1 based DAC owners to consider transport upgrades, not necessarily audiophilleos or hiFace variants - the likes of f.e. Musiland Monitor 01 USD already makes SQ difference... and while at it - do not forget the computer configuration/player latency part of the equation - you could be surprised how you can "hear" SP1 installation on your 7 x64 machine and/or application of Fidelizer before playing your music. I know I was few days ago when I installed openELEC in 15 minutes on an old laptop and hooked my main rig to it...
 
 

 

[MohawkUS]

I'm thinking of upgrading from my ASUS Essence to the C2.2 and NFB2 or 3.1 DAC which seem to both be newer revisions of the DAC-19 and C2 and I was wondering a few things.
If I go with this combo will my headphones be any warmer or aggressive? I'm using Ultrasone 2900s and they have the perfect balance between the two, maybe a little much on the warm side.

Also has anyone tried the OPAs that Audio GD sells? I'm only going to be getting the C2.2 for now, and I'll get the DAC later on when funds allow, and I was going to try the Earth and Sun OPAs, can anyone comment on them, or even the default opamp quality wise? I'll probably be using ACSS once I have both pieces, but I'll be using the amp and my essence for a few months and be using the RCAs, just wondering if the OPAs are worth it or not.
Thanks.

 

[Mad Max]

Certainly not any more aggressive.  Since you'll eventually be going ACSS anyway, I would just skip on the "discrete" opamps and save up for the NFB3.1 instead.

 

[HaVoC-28]

 
Quote:

I'm thinking of upgrading from my ASUS Essence to the C2.2 and NFB2 or 3.1 DAC which seem to both be newer revisions of the DAC-19 and C2 and I was wondering a few things.
If I go with this combo will my headphones be any warmer or aggressive? I'm using Ultrasone 2900s and they have the perfect balance between the two, maybe a little much on the warm side.
Also has anyone tried the OPAs that Audio GD sells? I'm only going to be getting the C2.2 for now, and I'll get the DAC later on when funds allow, and I was going to try the Earth and Sun OPAs, can anyone comment on them, or even the default opamp quality wise? I'll probably be using ACSS once I have both pieces, but I'll be using the amp and my essence for a few months and be using the RCAs, just wondering if the OPAs are worth it or not.
Thanks.

Speacking about OPA : 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2  (peraphs it can help but the reviewer himself change a bit his mind in the folowing page of his own review thread) .
 
But it's a too much subjective thing ... some will like X opa , other Y opa etc ... , and it's not + 20$ or -20$ that will bring your DAC sooner i think For me anothers OPA are worth it (if it remain not too expansive)  

 

[MohawkUS]

Thanks for the link. I already read through it, but I think I'll go through it again.

I'm definatly getting the sun, I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy it, but it might be a little much for some of my music. I'm not sure if I'll get the earth or just use the default op for a more neutral sound. It seems no one stays with the default opamp unless they are using ACSS.

BTW: I've been meaning to ask, but what headphones do you have that you can use the moon and still get a nice sound for metal? I would think the "tube-like" OPA wouldn't be a good choice for metal. Or do you like having a warmer sound for metal?

 

[HaVoC-28]

 
Quote:

Thanks for the link.

I already read through it, but I think I'll go through it again.
I'm definatly getting the sun, I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy it, but it might be a little much for some of my music. I'm not sure if I'll get the earth or just use the default op for a more neutral sound. It seems no one stays with the default opamp unless they are using ACSS.
BTW: I've been meaning to ask, but what headphones do you have that you can use the moon and still get a nice sound for metal? I would think the "tube-like" OPA wouldn't be a good choice for metal. Or do you like having a warmer sound for metal?

Using a K702
 
Well many people say that K/Q/70X don't work great with metal but i don't agree , black metal well  for me guitares are focused  in highs and medium the sound should be COLD and sharp like a razor and  dynamique (there is faster headphone than K70x but for me they do very well , and i don't see the problem with the" too much soundstage" , furthemore i like the airie guitare presentation of my K702 , i dont like overwelming bass (not a basshead at all)  (and for black metal you don't need many bass impact ...) i mostly use ACSS (like 80% of my time) , but sometimes it's fun to change a bit , Moon is warmer than ACSS , but it's not day and night and it still very suitable for metal too my taste , a real TUbe amp would be much warmer ... (i hate K70x with tube amps ...) (not all tube amps are very warm but ... )
 
And i don't have any complain with them listening some "US death metal" like malevolent creation (they use too much first cord , but some times i like to listen kind groups like that)
 
i tryed other headphones ... but in their price range since i aslo listen a lot of classical , they are my favorite . (peraphs there are other but you can't test all headphones )
 
It's my personnal tastes .

 

[Mad Max]

 
Quote:

 
Quote:

I'm thinking of upgrading from my ASUS Essence to the C2.2 and NFB2 or 3.1 DAC which seem to both be newer revisions of the DAC-19 and C2 and I was wondering a few things.
If I go with this combo will my headphones be any warmer or aggressive? I'm using Ultrasone 2900s and they have the perfect balance between the two, maybe a little much on the warm side.
Also has anyone tried the OPAs that Audio GD sells? I'm only going to be getting the C2.2 for now, and I'll get the DAC later on when funds allow, and I was going to try the Earth and Sun OPAs, can anyone comment on them, or even the default opamp quality wise? I'll probably be using ACSS once I have both pieces, but I'll be using the amp and my essence for a few months and be using the RCAs, just wondering if the OPAs are worth it or not.
Thanks.

Speacking about OPA : 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2  (peraphs it can help but the reviewer himself change a bit his mind in the folowing page of his own review thread) .
 
But it's a too much subjective thing ... some will like X opa , other Y opa etc ... , and it's not + 20$ or -20$ that will bring your DAC sooner i think For me anothers OPA are worth it (if it remain not too expansive)  

No, +/-$20 here won't bring you a better DAC sooner.  Or +/-$15 over here, or $30 over there, or another $20 there yonder, and so on and so forth.  That's how it starts, then you spent a lot more on little things that don't really matter much soon after or you hardly use later than originally intended. 

 

 

 

[HaVoC-28]

 
Quote:

 

No, +/-$20 here won't bring you a better DAC sooner.  Or +/-$15 over here, or $30 over there, or another $20 there yonder, and so on and so forth.  That's how it starts, then you spent a lot more on little things that don't really matter much soon after or you hardly use later than originally intended. 

 

 

Peraphs MohawkUS will be strong  just ordering a C2.2 with earth + sun and he will not look for any other opa 

, he's final goal seams using ACSS 

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

I can confirm Amine's (and Curra's previous) notions on DSP-1 sensitivity to transport quality on RE-1/7. RE-1/7 substantially improves with better transport.
 
In fact, the magnitude of RE-1/7 SQ improvement with transport quality scaling is amazing, especially when considering that R2R DACs should be less susceptible to jitter. No ΣΔ DAC I have tried with various transports have shown that much improvement. Now I completely understand why KingWa rates his own DI as mid-fi in comparison with, also his, CD-7 transport. At the moment, audiophilleo2 is also my pick as best USB/SPDIF converter. It just "hangs" on the back of my RE-1/7 (BNC/BNC adapter; no SPDIF cable) and I consider it as an integral "USB extension" of the RE.
 
DSP-1 filter transparency or poor jitter handling? I would say transparency - because RE-1/7 ordinary fares better and scales much, much better than ΣΔ counterparts with same USB/SPDIF transports. Of course, there is always possibility that this is not due to DSP-1 transparency but due to PCM1704 DAC chips qualities and/or my subjective SQ preferences.
 
So, also I recommend DSP-1 based DAC owners to consider transport upgrades, not necessarily audiophilleos or hiFace variants - the likes of f.e. Musiland Monitor 01 USD already makes SQ difference... and while at it - do not forget the computer configuration/player latency part of the equation - you could be surprised how you can "hear" SP1 installation on your 7 x64 machine and/or application of Fidelizer before playing your music. I know I was few days ago when I installed openELEC in 15 minutes on an old laptop and hooked my main rig to it...
 
 

If one is contemplating the likes of a 900-1100USD transport upgrade then I suggest none other than the CD7FV as THE best possible maximum exploitation of a RE1/7/7.1 series A-gd DAC. I agree with you FD wholeheartedly about the upgrade the CD7 brings to the table. Then again if one does not like to spin discs anymore something like the Audiophilleo (SP ?) 2 is a great substitute but you will not gain the same amount of realism with that combo vs the tailor made CD7FV. I suppose it's a matter of convenience in the end.
 
I was pleasantly surprised by the rather large leap in performance when going from a number of well respected transports (used with the RE1 MAX) like the Denon 3910/Vanguard CDM12 Pro, and  number of mid tier CDP's vs the CD7 (which has been upgraded to FV clock + MAX mod). The synergy between the CD7FV and the RE series dacs is apparent from first listen.
 
Peete.

 

[quicksound]

I currently own an Audio-gd DAC19 DF and will soon be upgrading to the Audio-gd Reference One - from what I can tell, it sounds like I should bite the bullet and buy a Audiophilleo 2 on top of it, would you all agree? Initially I was going to get the m2tech, then the Audio-gd DI, and now I'm beginning to convince myself that the Audiophilleo 2 is worth it based on everyone's reviews.