[PinkyPowers]

The problem I had with the IM03 and IM04 was not the volume but th lack of any details in the music, it was like having IM07 in your ears naked without any silicon tips on them.

When headphones don't get enough power, they lose dynamics, detail, soundstage, and many, many other things. It's not about loudness. On devices with weak output, like smartphones and tablets, you may have to raise the volume well past the point of comfort before the headphones get enough current to come alive. I guess multi-driver IEMs are among those that need a little extra juice.

Obviously, this is not ideal. Which is why dedicated music players are so preferable. Practically all of them do a better job of driving headphones than your cell.

 

[Tom22]

When headphones don't get enough power, they lose dynamics, detail, soundstage, and many, many other things. It's not about loudness. On devices with weak output, like smartphones and tablets, you may have to raise the volume well past the point of comfort before the headphones get enough current to come alive. I guess multi-driver IEMs are among those that need a little extra juice.

Obviously, this is not ideal. Which is why dedicated music players are so preferable. Practically all of them do a better job of driving headphones than your cell.

but this shouldn't be the case though.... I don't have the im03 or the im04 but I do have the im70 which is more sensitivity and has a lower impedence but....
 
BA in the past I found to be easily driven off my ipod touch and even my old iphone 4s.
 
I'm not sure why this is the case for the im03 and the im04 to the point where you guys are saying it needs over 90% or more to get enough juice.
 
 
but this maybe just due to the various different listening volumes we are all use to.
 
for me anyway on the im70 (which has the following specs)
 
and right now I find good listening volume at 5-6/16 on my ipod touch and I think 40-45% on my Samsung galaxy s3.
 
 
so I can still pump out more juice if needed

IM70 Sensitivity 108dB/mW Impedence 10Ω	compared to the im04                        Sensitivity 101 dB/mW                        Impedance 14 ohms

 

[PinkyPowers]

What is being said by others, and I'm simply trying to interpret for you folk, is that you have to push these beyond comfortable listening levels before the weak current flow of your smartphones to wake up the IM03 and 04.

On a good DAP, like the FiiO X5 for example, you get enough current at lower listening levels for the full experience.

It's not about liking it loud.

Voltage and current are not the same thing, but they do move in the same direction. A better Amp circuit can deliver more current at the same voltage as your iPhone.

 

[Here2rock]

   
Yes the details peal back on the IM04 when they aren't getting enough power, which is why they sounds noticeably more detailed at higher volume on under powered rigs like a cell phone.   Hooked up to an amp with enough power and a low output Z (<0.5) they sound like nothing I've ever owned before (much better than my Dunu-2000's and Ety's).  At 70% volume on my S6 with out a dac/amp they sound like complete trash to me easily on par with some beats or equivalent because their is barely enough juice to drive 4 BA's and they sound like they give up halfway through a sound. The IM70/50's sound much much better at that volume w/ that low voltage, but they are supposed too. 

This could have been the reason that iPad Air 2 not having enough power to drive these. How can can you tell by looking at the specifications of these headphones, impedance? 
 
IM04 has impedance of 14 ohms
IM07 has impedance of 10 ohms
 
Is that a significant difference?
 
What are the maximum  power input and sensitivity specifications?
 
When you are looking to buy a headphone amp, what specification should you look for to ensure that it has enough juice to drive the BA drivers?

 

[Here2rock]

Obviously, this is not ideal. Which is why dedicated music players are so preferable. Practically all of them do a better job of driving headphones than your cell.

 
Just wondering whether the classic iPod had more juice to drive these?

 

[Here2rock]

Just looking at the specifications for both the IM70 and IM04 as follow:
 
IM70:
 

Frequency Response:	5-26,000 Hz
Cable Length:	3.5mm L-type mini-stereo, gold-plated. Detachable 1.2m cable, Y-type
Driver Diameter:	8.8mm
Voice Coil:	Neodymium
Sensitiviy:	108 dB
Maximum Input Power:	200mW
Weight:	About 3g
Maximum Input Power:	200mW
Impedance:	10 ohms

IM04:
 

requency Response:	15 - 20,000 Hz
Cable Length:	Detachable 1.2 m, Y-type
Sensitiviy:	101 dB/mW
Maximum Input Power:	3 mW
Weight:	8 g
Connector:	3.5 mm (1/8") gold-plated stereo mini-plug, L-type
Maximum Input Power:	3 mW
Impedance:	14 ohms

The big difference seems to be the Maximum Input Power difference, 200mW V 3mW, Is that the reason for sounding so lifeless on iPad Air 2?

 

[Revant]

  Just looking at the specifications for both the IM70 and IM04 as follow:
 
IM70:
 

Frequency Response:	5-26,000 Hz
Cable Length:	3.5mm L-type mini-stereo, gold-plated. Detachable 1.2m cable, Y-type
Driver Diameter:	8.8mm
Voice Coil:	Neodymium
Sensitiviy:	108 dB
Maximum Input Power:	200mW
Weight:	About 3g
Maximum Input Power:	200mW
Impedance:	10 ohms

IM04:
 

requency Response:	15 - 20,000 Hz
Cable Length:	Detachable 1.2 m, Y-type
Sensitiviy:	101 dB/mW
Maximum Input Power:	3 mW
Weight:	8 g
Connector:	3.5 mm (1/8") gold-plated stereo mini-plug, L-type
Maximum Input Power:	3 mW
Impedance:	14 ohms

The big difference seems to be the Maximum Input Power difference, 200mW V 3mW, Is that the reason for sounding so lifeless on iPad Air 2?

 
Ok now I don't understand a lot of the actual math going on here, but how I understand it is that the Dynamic drivers in the IM-50/70's respond more to voltage like traditional speakers so they can run optimal with a much lower current and have low impedance because the small speakers aren't hard to move. The BA drivers care a lot less about voltage and more about current, which devices that need to have 8-14hr battery lives don't hand out a lot of.  Now how i remember it is the lower your impedance the lower your current and with 4 BA's in each ear even at lower impedance it needs a lot of current and most phones put how like sub 100 mW at 10 Ohms? (rough guess).  Also I think the sensitivity matters a lot as it's logarithmic and 7dB/mW is bigger than it sounds since i think the whole scale is like 95-120 so on top of the previous stuff it takes a decent amount more power to to reach the amount of loudness much less power 8BA's. 
 
I could be totally wrong too I read so much conflicting stuff but the short version is drivers like the IM-50's at that scale are easy to power but suffer all the same problems as traditional speakers (as well as some unique IEM issues, the BA drivers do not move air to produce sound like drivers so require little to no venting make isolation a lot better both for sound and others).  BA can reproduce sound clearer and faster but tend to to be limited in frq range so a single BA doesn't really require enough more current (esp at high ohm) to run that it wouldn't effect most players but can't produce and equivalent range of frequency's to a dynamic driver (hence stuff like Ety's lacking bass) so they put more in (IM-03 has a high/med/low, and IM-04 high/med/low/low) and it starting needing more power than a phone is designed for. 
 
Now what I would love to know if any one knows is why the volume controls that so much? Cause at like 60% it sounds noticeably clipped and faded but at 90% its pretty loud but sounds a lot better and in an amp they sound just a ton better.

 

[Here2rock]

  Now what I would love to know if any one knows is why the volume controls that so much? Cause at like 60% it sounds noticeably clipped and faded but at 90% its pretty loud but sounds a lot better and in an amp they sound just a ton better.

 
+1.

 

[PinkyPowers]

IM04 has impedance of 14 ohms
IM07 has impedance of 10 ohms

Is that a significant difference?

You are making this more difficult than it has to be. The math is even simpler than that. The IMO4 has four drivers, so you can reasonably presume it needs more juice than a single driver IEM. Yes?

Also, sadly, the iPod is not known for good ouput power. Most folk here pair their's with an amp.

 

[tresaistevadels]

iPods have much better output power than Sony Walkmans or cell phones. I can run IM04 or any other IEM's without problem.
Now different topic.
I have had TF10, IM50, IM02, CK100Pro(IM03 predescessor) and IM04 and I don't agree with thread starter - Earphonia.
IM04 is detail monster, like CK100Pro. TF10 is badly outclased even by IM02 in every aspect. IM50 from memory is probably around TF10 level - I hadn't owned them at same time.
But it can't be denied that IM02 is best value. It offers 97% of IM04 for $150 compared to $350-$400 IM04. But I have no problem pay those extra $200 for better isolation, sound and for my tastes better sound signature. IM04 have amazing bass coupled with top notch detail.
This would me ranking.
IM04 - 10
CK100Pro - 9.9
IM02 - 9.7
TF10 - 9.0
IM50 - 8.8- 9.0
I have also had CKR9 and CKR10 for brief audition - I would rank them 9.7-9.9. But soon I will get CKR9LTD for keeping.

 

[Whitigir]

Impedance is like weigh of an instrument, a drum for example. Same size, same weigh, doesn't mean that it produce the same sound and tonal body if the material that made them were different.

Generally multiple drivers headphones or IEMs are very hard to drive, regardless of impedance rating. For example, multiple balanced armatures, or Planar magnetic headphones. Even though planar magnetic HP are rated at low impedance, but it nature makes it fall into the line of multiple drivers. There are multiple sections of the magnetic inside to power them.

I agree that IPod, IPhones, IPads have more power than some of Sony Walkman.......That is a Sony thing, they always have very low output power to prevent people from going deft.....lol. However, my ZX2 is very powerful, but not too much more than iPad either

 

[Here2rock]

The old IPod was built like a tank, I think it was far superior to the latest iPhone 6 and iPads in terms of sound quality and output. Sadly the hard drive died, might replace it.

Reading the posts above you need a more powerful AMP to drive multiple drivers, Do the small USB like devices(I think they are called DAC) make any difference if you are looking to pair an IM04 with your iPhone?

 

[Whitigir]

The old IPod was built like a tank, I think it was far superior to the latest iPhone 6 and iPads in terms of sound quality and output. Sadly the hard drive died, might replace it.

Reading the posts above you need a more powerful AMP to drive multiple drivers, Do the small USB like devices(I think they are called DAC) make any difference if you are looking to pair an IM04 with you iPhone?

Im04 with newer iPad from iPhone 5 and up is good. When it come to USB DAC , there are plenty that can drive even the monstrous LCD x lol....

 

[Revant]

The old IPod was built like a tank, I think it was far superior to the latest iPhone 6 and iPads in terms of sound quality and output. Sadly the hard drive died, might replace it.

Reading the posts above you need a more powerful AMP to drive multiple drivers, Do the small USB like devices(I think they are called DAC) make any difference if you are looking to pair an IM04 with you iPhone?

I have IM-04's and they sound TERRIBLE on an un-amped iPhone6 and Galaxy S6 unless you have the volume absolutely cranked and even then they still aren't getting enough power to really shine over IM-03's comparably.   Off my buddies UHA6 from the phone it sounds miles better and is extremely distinguishable from the IM-03 with deep bass and a much fuller sound.  I'm not sure the exact mechanics but straight off the iPhone 6 they sound like they work but are half-assing it and very flat, at full volume they sound excellent but really 60-70% of what they sound like with enough power (which is honestly excellent and I wouldn't have even noticed had I not compared them w/ an AMP). 

 

[Whitigir]

I have IM-04's and they sound TERRIBLE on an un-amped iPhone6 and Galaxy S6 unless you have the volume absolutely cranked and even then they still aren't getting enough power to really shine over IM-03's comparably.   Off my buddies UHA6 from the phone it sounds miles better and is extremely distinguishable from the IM-03 with deep bass and a much fuller sound.  I'm not sure the exact mechanics but straight off the iPhone 6 they sound like they work but are half-assing it and very flat, at full volume they sound excellent but really 60-70% of what they sound like with enough power (which is honestly excellent and I wouldn't have even noticed had I not compared them w/ an AMP). 

That is strange, unless my ZX2 also can not properly drive im04, which I very much doubt. Because my wife ip6 and my iPad Air 2 both drive Im04 just fine. Of course 04 sounds better on ZX2, but it is not like on my iPad Air 2 and ip6 it sounds disgustingly horrible though...absolutely not "Flat" unless you are bass head kind....

Anyways, I agreed that it needs 60-70% volume to sound good on iPad and iPhone. Though, that is how I would listen to my music all day though