[Hinomotocho]

Could anyone who has used the HDP with some stock standard Denon D2000 please tell me if this is a good match

 

[kostalex]

Does anybody know whether using of Windows 7 software volume control impairs HDP sound quality?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Does anybody know whether using of Windows 7 software volume control impairs HDP sound quality?

My understanding is that using any software volume control lowers the bit depth of the music, but if you are set for 24/96 and reduce the volume you may stay above 16 bits most of the time.  It would be hard to hear the drop in bit depth, and shouldn't matter if you are just using the system volume to get the volume lower when you are at the 9 o'clock channel imbalance.  In my case I try to always leave the software at 100% out of respect for my OCD tendencies...
 
[edit - well, if you are listening to 16 bit music with DAC set at 24 bit, the system may be adding a bunch of zeros to the 16 bits, and you may still drop to 12-14 bits effective rate when reducing the system software volume on 16 bit music.]

 

[evanft]

I don't think this was ever answered. Can these drive the DT880 600 ohm version? I'm looking for a DAC/amp combo as an upgrade to my Darkvoice, and this is the frontrunner right now.

 

[ayz]

i think so. They drive my HD600's pretty loudly with the knob at 12 o'clock.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

I don't think this was ever answered. Can these drive the DT880 600 ohm version? I'm looking for a DAC/amp combo as an upgrade to my Darkvoice, and this is the frontrunner right now.

Don't know about the Beyer, but it can drive my 600 ohm AKG K240M.

 

[evanft]

Quote:

Don't know about the Beyer, but it can drive my 600 ohm AKG K240M.

Well, that pretty much answers it then, doesn't it?

 

[techenvy]

Quote:

My understanding is that using any software volume control lowers the bit depth of the music, but if you are set for 24/96 and reduce the volume you may stay above 16 bits most of the time.  It would be hard to hear the drop in bit depth, and shouldn't matter if you are just using the system volume to get the volume lower when you are at the 9 o'clock channel imbalance.  In my case I try to always leave the software at 100% out of respect for my OCD tendencies...
 
[edit - well, if you are listening to 16 bit music with DAC set at 24 bit, the system may be adding a bunch of zeros to the 16 bits, and you may still drop to 12-14 bits effective rate when reducing the system software volume on 16 bit music.]

this is good to know,,   i had thought this to be true when lowering say foobar or itunes volume,   but does it allso hold sway with the windows master volume control?
  i always leave the sourced software maxed,  but often i  have a  tendency to tweak the windows master  volume to about 90% -95%, but never when a/b.

 
  and more interesting i think is, how much lower the bitrate willl decrease when compared with how much volume is lowered.     i would assume that the lower the master volume, the less the bitrate,, but maybe  just a little less than 100% has the same effect on bit rate as say 60%...?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

this is good to know,,   i had thought this to be true when lowering say foobar or itunes volume,   but does it allso hold sway with the windows master volume control?
  i always leave the sourced software maxed,  but often i  have a  tendency to tweak the windows master  volume to about 90% -95%, but never when a/b.

 
  and more interesting i think is, how much lower the bitrate willl decrease when compared with how much volume is lowered.     i would assume that the lower the master volume, the less the bitrate,, but maybe  just a little less than 100% has the same effect on bit rate as say 60%...?

Sorry, I told you everything I know about that.  But I do believe that lowering the system volume is just another software attenuation which lowers the bit rate.

 

[thuantran]

From my little knowledge of digital signal processing from the class I took when I was a university student (which I ditched mostly because I didn't like the subject). Digital volume attenuation does not lower the bit depth, but at lower precision the SNR of such calculation is not high enough causing signal quality loss, you won't have a 10 bit or 14 bit signal after such dsp, it's still a 16 bit signal with signal quality lost. e.g. at 16 bit resolution you might notice the difference, but some ppl agree at 24bit and higher they can't notice a difference.
 
TBH I'm dreaded with ppl obsession over bit perfect and similar arguments around DSP. Digital signal is an approximation of the analog one, and as long as any processing is done with high enough precision, noticing a different will borderline on placebo effect as long as you don't prove it with DBT. Of course, it's still important to have bit perfect when doing certain operations, but I find simply playing back the signal is not always one of these.

 

[evanft]

Has anyone compared this to the Audio-gd FUN? The FUN and HDP are in the lead for my next upgrade for my DT880s.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

From my little knowledge of digital signal processing from the class I took when I was a university student (which I ditched mostly because I didn't like the subject). Digital volume attenuation does not lower the bit depth, but at lower precision the SNR of such calculation is not high enough causing signal quality loss, you won't have a 10 bit or 14 bit signal after such dsp, it's still a 16 bit signal with signal quality lost. e.g. at 16 bit resolution you might notice the difference, but some ppl agree at 24bit and higher they can't notice a difference.
 
TBH I'm dreaded with ppl obsession over bit perfect and similar arguments around DSP. Digital signal is an approximation of the analog one, and as long as any processing is done with high enough precision, noticing a different will borderline on placebo effect as long as you don't prove it with DBT. Of course, it's still important to have bit perfect when doing certain operations, but I find simply playing back the signal is not always one of these.

I was of the understanding that it's still a 16 bit signal, but some of the bits are zero'd out when you lower the digital volume, hence the drop in SNR.  I don't mind that issue when I am lowering the system volume to avoid the low volume channel imbalance below 9 o'clock, because it's already so quiet that it wont matter one bit (pun intended).  It's also fine for non-critical listening, and maybe okay for critical listening too as it is so hard to hear the differences.

 

[Sid-Fi]

Quote:

Has anyone compared this to the Audio-gd FUN? The FUN and HDP are in the lead for my next upgrade for my DT880s.

X2 but with either HD 650 or Denon 2000/5000

 

[thuantran]

Quote:

I was of the understanding that it's still a 16 bit signal, but some of the bits are zero'd out when you lower the digital volume, hence the drop in SNR.  I don't mind that issue when I am lowering the system volume to avoid the low volume channel imbalance below 9 o'clock, because it's already so quiet that it wont matter one bit (pun intended).  It's also fine for non-critical listening, and maybe okay for critical listening too as it is so hard to hear the differences.

 
After checking it again, you're right that's one way to do it, but a very bad one. Basically you do a logical right shift on each bit sample passing through this DSP. What I had in mind was actually something like this (for 16bit CD audio signal): interpolate 16 bit audio signal to 24bit or higher, logical right shift the signal, truncated the attenuated signal to the original bit depth with dithering. This is the way that AFAIK foobar2000, uLilith, iTunes... do with different precision.

 

[kostalex]

I hope there are some clever protocols between the Windows and USB DACs, with no degradation of digital resolution. It is possible if volume value is transferred along with the original sound samples. If it is not possible, then using of Replay Gain in Foobar or other media players also leads to the samples processing and lowering the resolution. I do not want to believe this.
 
I am also wondered how W7 software volume control can affect the samples resolution when I am using WASAPI in Foobar. I thought that WASAPI guarantees bit-perfect transmission. If it is true, then the only way W7 can change the volume is by sending volume value as a separate data stream.
 
Does anybody knows this subject deep enough?
 
jasonl, please help.