[macmedic]

I have never heard IEM's that sound so very natural. To me the Aurisonics product is very efficient and clean sounding. I think anybody would benefit from using their IEM's. I will not lie for any manufacturer but if I like a produce I am hard pressed to keep my mouth shut.

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

Now that's where there's a BIG difference in isolation (and also why it's hard to tell what's really happening with the Shure's onstage): There's so much more ambient sound coming in with them, it's harder to distinguish what the Shure's really sound like. Occasionally when the I forget to re-insert the AS-2's, I'm shocked at the level of band sound I used to deal with before I got them...

 
That's encouraging. I wear 28dB ear muffs over my current universals because the ambient sound bleeding in makes everything sound somewhat muffled & indistinct. I'd love to ditch the ear muffs.
 
Terry.

 

[anoxy]

Quote:

Hey anoxy,
 
You'd be surprised how little music I listen to outside of the show. After 8 (3 hour) shows a week plus practicing, I just want to give my ears a break...!
 
When the tour is over, I'll bring the AS-2's home .

Definitely understandable. Can't imagine how taxing that must be on your ears. It's like eating too many sweets and getting a stomach ache, and maybe even some diabeetus in the long run! haha. I'm happy that casual listening is still a treat for my ears. 

 

[mgohler]

Quote:

 
That's encouraging. I wear 28dB ear muffs over my current universals because the ambient sound bleeding in makes everything sound somewhat muffled & indistinct. I'd love to ditch the ear muffs.
 
Terry.

I've noticed that several makers advertise about 26 dB of ambient sound isolation. That's probably somewhat of a constant between CIEM's; so you could ditch your ear muffs 

. According to an iPhone App, our stage volume hits about 104 dB onstage; that's pretty loud! So, the AS-2's are bringing the sound down to a more tolerable mid 70's level.
 
By the way, I wanted to mention that I haven't noticed any excessive high end...

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

I've noticed that several makers advertise about 26 dB of ambient sound isolation. That's probably somewhat of a constant between CIEM's; so you could ditch your ear muffs 

. According to an iPhone App, our stage volume hits about 104 dB onstage; that's pretty loud! So, the AS-2's are bringing the sound down to a more tolerable mid 70's level.

 
I've been assuming 24 to 26 dB of isolation, which lines up with what you suggest. I'm guessing that my universals provide around 10dB of isolation, but that's just a guess. If I'm in the ballpark, then my aggregate isolation is ~38dB right now. 26dB will be noticeably less, but I suspect it will be more than enough. Our stage level is around 98dBA. 
 
DId you read your stage level using A or C weighting?
 
Terry.

 

[Aurisonics]

Quote:

 
I've been assuming 24 to 26 dB of isolation, which lines up with what you suggest. I'm guessing that my universals provide around 10dB of isolation, but that's just a guess. If I'm in the ballpark, then my aggregate isolation is ~38dB right now. 26dB will be noticeably less, but I suspect it will be more than enough. Our stage level is around 98dBA. 
 
DId you read your stage level using A or C weighting?
 
Terry.

[size=10pt]Adding muffs over in-ears does not increase the attenuation NRR in an add-on fashion thus a 12dB set of generics and a 26dB set of muffs would not be 38 NRR. A lot of manufacturers quote numbers also that I question greatly. This standard 26dB everyone seems to quote may not actually be accurate from manufacturer to manufacturer and person to person depending on an assortment of factors.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]I have done a lot of testing and validation of hearing protection devices both in-ear and over the ear for Military and Aerospace applications for many years. It always gets me stirred up when people throw numbers around on this stuff. Tone Seeker I'm not calling you out on this (quite the contrary) at all I just want us to begin to work together as a group to dispel some of the myths around NRR and dB etc when it comes to isolation numbers and hearing protection/conservation etc. [/size]
 
[size=10pt]I'm more than open to any questions on this stuff. I could talk for years on the subject of hearing protection/conservation devices in-ear and over-the-ear. [/size]

 

[mgohler]

Quote:

 
I've been assuming 24 to 26 dB of isolation, which lines up with what you suggest. I'm guessing that my universals provide around 10dB of isolation, but that's just a guess. If I'm in the ballpark, then my aggregate isolation is ~38dB right now. 26dB will be noticeably less, but I suspect it will be more than enough. Our stage level is around 98dBA. 
 
DId you read your stage level using A or C weighting?
 
Terry.

It was just a basic iPhone App that is probably not overly accurate...

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

[size=10pt]Adding muffs over in-ears does not increase the attenuation NRR in an add-on fashion thus a 12dB set of generics and a 26dB set of muffs would not be 38 NRR.[/size]

 
Is that because of the logarithmic nature of the numbers used, the physics related to sound isolation, or some of both?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurisonics /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[size=10pt]I have done a lot of testing and validation of hearing protection devices both in-ear and over the ear for Military and Aerospace applications for many years. It always gets me stirred up when people throw numbers around on this stuff. Tone Seeker I'm not calling you out on this (quite the contrary) at all I just want us to begin to work together as a group to dispel some of the myths around NRR and dB etc when it comes to isolation numbers and hearing protection/conservation etc. [/size]

 
That's really encouraging to hear! I highly value deep expertise in this area.
 
I've had Tinnitus for around 17 years. I had the misfortune of receiving some bad advice early on; "Better wear earplugs because it's only going to get worse!" I was told. As a result I over protected and developed hyperacusis. It became so bad that I had to wear foamy earplugs just to walk outside in the city. Four adults talking along with a TV playing in an acoustically likely room would cause me discomfort. My loudness discomfort levels had diminished to 74dbA at certain frequencies, if I remember correctly. Needless to say, I had to come up with some very creative ways to continue playing electric guitar on stage.
 
Fortunately, I found a local audiologist who truly understood tinnitus / hyperacusis, and knew how to treat them. After two years of tinnitus retraining therapy my tinnitus was significantly reduced and my hyperacusis eliminated. That journey began four years ago and I no longer wear hearing protection, other than when I should. Fortunately, the venue I play in (church worship team) switched to an in-ear system a couple of years ago so stage levels are reasonable. I've discovered that I love the clarity of in-ears and the ability to create my own monitor mix.
 
Quote:

[size=10pt]I'm more than open to any questions on this stuff. I could talk for years on the subject of hearing protection/conservation devices in-ear and over-the-ear. [/size]

 
Because of my struggles with tinnitus / hyperacusis I've become much more aware of what is, and is not, potentially a safe listening environment. However, I know of only one manufacturer that provides an "SPL meter" to let you know if your in-ear listening level is potentially unsafe. They derive this based on the in-ear monitor's current draw and the know characteristics of their product.
 
Dale, can you offer any suggestions for how to ensure that we don't have our in-ears set too loud?
 
I find this difficult to do. Our brain seems to easily adapt to levels that may be unsafe, yet when we turn things down too far they become "dull" (i.e. we run into the non-linear frequency response of our ears - Fletcher-Munson). In my specific case I have to find the sweet spot to develop my guitar tones. Too quiet and they sound dull / lifeless, and I over-correct. Too loud and I put my hearing at risk.
 
I'd appreciate hearing any thoughts, strategies or (ideally) about any tools that might be available.
 
Terry.

 

[Aurisonics]

Quote:

 
Is that because of the logarithmic nature of the numbers used, the physics related to sound isolation, or some of both?
 
 
That's really encouraging to hear! I highly value deep expertise in this area.
 
I've had Tinnitus for around 17 years. I had the misfortune of receiving some bad advice early on; "Better wear earplugs because it's only going to get worse!" I was told. As a result I over protected and developed hyperacusis. It became so bad that I had to wear foamy earplugs just to walk outside in the city. Four adults talking along with a TV playing in an acoustically likely room would cause me discomfort. My loudness discomfort levels had diminished to 74dbA at certain frequencies, if I remember correctly. Needless to say, I had to come up with some very creative ways to continue playing electric guitar on stage.
 
Fortunately, I found a local audiologist who truly understood tinnitus / hyperacusis, and knew how to treat them. After two years of tinnitus retraining therapy my tinnitus was significantly reduced and my hyperacusis eliminated. That journey began four years ago and I no longer wear hearing protection, other than when I should. Fortunately, the venue I play in (church worship team) switched to an in-ear system a couple of years ago so stage levels are reasonable. I've discovered that I love the clarity of in-ears and the ability to create my own monitor mix.
 
 
Because of my struggles with tinnitus / hyperacusis I've become much more aware of what is, and is not, potentially a safe listening environment. However, I know of only one manufacturer that provides an "SPL meter" to let you know if your in-ear listening level is potentially unsafe. They derive this based on the in-ear monitor's current draw and the know characteristics of their product.
 
Dale, can you offer any suggestions for how to ensure that we don't have our in-ears set too loud?
 
I find this difficult to do. Our brain seems to easily adapt to levels that may be unsafe, yet when we turn things down too far they become "dull" (i.e. we run into the non-linear frequency response of our ears - Fletcher-Munson). In my specific case I have to find the sweet spot to develop my guitar tones. Too quiet and they sound dull / lifeless, and I over-correct. Too loud and I put my hearing at risk.
 
I'd appreciate hearing any thoughts, strategies or (ideally) about any tools that might be available.
 
Terry.

 
[size=medium]Terry,[/size]
[size=medium]    Very good detailed explanation and question. I appreciate you sharing that and opening a discussion on this. I am aware of the company that uses voltage to derive SPL  and at NAMM in July I talked extensively about that with Michael. Although I think they have done a great thing with the device it is still not necessarily the very best way to do that. I am currently involved with several Government programs designing a device to do this very thing much more accurately. Once this technology is ready for prime time AS is the transition partner for it to the commercial market, therefore you will see some things from us that give much better control and overall level monitoring for the IEM market. I will say now we have something coming in the short term to give a person a better idea of what level they are listening at. We will begin to include these in package deals for pro musicians later next year. [/size]
 
[size=medium]Sorry for being a bit vague I don't want to say too much before the products are ready and patents filed etc.[/size]

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

I am currently involved with several Government programs designing a device to do this very thing much more accurately. Once this technology is ready for prime time AS is the transition partner for it to the commercial market, therefore you will see some things from us that give much better control and overall level monitoring for the IEM market. I will say now we have something coming in the short term to give a person a better idea of what level they are listening at. We will begin to include these in package deals for pro musicians later next year.

 
I'm really encouraged to hear this Dale. Thanks for the heads-up.
 
I'll keep my eyes open for your product announcement(s).
 
Terry.

 

[audionewbi]

I hope I get to try the ASG-2 soon. 

 

[shotgunshane]

I never saw these posts last year- thats great news Dale. I think many on head-fi would be interested in such a device. I know I am. Look forward to hearing more about it.

 

[audionewbi]

I know it might be a silly question but how does the bass respond of the DD used in the AS-2 (ASG-2) compare against the sony EX-1000?

 

[audionewbi]

After reading in this thread I get a sense of hint that this IEM might be best suited for live on stage performers than audio enthusiasts. The reason I say that is because it on life stage bass is reduced greatly and therefore they increase emphasis on bass will help for such cases.
 
I am just slightly worried that this might have too much bass. For me the reference to compare all other bass is EX-1000. To my ears balance armature cannot simply move air the same way a DD can, and till now the bass that I liked the best out of the dozen IEM I had tested and owned EX-1000 was the one I like the most. 

 

[chengsta]

I hope dale will some day come up with a version of the as-2's with crossover.  I've had a chance to listen to a friends as-2, and it would be perfect if the lows didn't interfere with the highs when eq'd.  It wasn't a perfect fit, but close enough.