[mgohler]

I'll try and get some pictures taken of my AS-2's "at the gig".
 
I'm a little concerned about tugging at the wires, but I'll give it a try tonight... One the other hand, the fact that they are difficult to remove indicates just how snug they fit and that's a GOOD thing  . I'm also getting more used to the air movement from the bass & bass drum and that I even feel it, is a sign of the good low frequency response of the dynamic speaker (i hope I know what I'm talking about)!
 
Quote:

Sure Michel, I would still like to see some pictures if it's not too much trouble.  I'm interested in these IEMs but I'm not really sold on the frosted look.  They almost look like a prototype/unfinished product.    And the price jump is quite significant if you decide to go with any of the custom options.

 
Quote:

Thanks for considering me a heavy hitter. I really appreciate that. I had a hard time figuring out how to remove them quickly as well. Try putting your pointer finger in the hook of the wire and pull the wire to the front of your face while also pulling down. They AS-2's should kind of roll out of your ear. I do the exact opposite to put them in my ears easily as well. Let me know how that works for you. It's like rocking your AS-2's into your ear. You can always send in your AS-2's to get upgraded aesthetics if you so desire. Just talk to the people at Aurisonics about what you want first.

 

[kenman345]

The dynamic driver is full frequency, that's part of the reason for that feeling of feeling all of the drums and the bass, because nothing you hear with any remote bass in it will be intersecting a crossover point, their arent any really.
 
Also, I didnt mean tugging on your wire. The part with the heatshrink/wire inside the cable right at the pins area is a very gentle pulling, if you tug it will probably hurt. Be gentle, and you'll figure it out soon. If not, i'll put together a short video. 
Quote:

I'll try and get some pictures taken of my AS-2's "at the gig".
 
I'm a little concerned about tugging at the wires, but I'll give it a try tonight... One the other hand, the fact that they are difficult to remove indicates just how snug they fit and that's a GOOD thing  . I'm also getting more used to the air movement from the bass & bass drum and that I even feel it, is a sign of the good low frequency response of the dynamic speaker (i hope I know what I'm talking about)!
 
 

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

I AM really enjoying them, once I got through the initial jolt of not being blown-away by the sound... <snip> On the other hand, live stage monitoring is what they are designed for!

 
Michel, can you elaborate on your sound quality comment? For example, were you "not blown-away" because they are too neutral, were they missing something, etc.?
 
I'm also curious about whether you expect something different from an IEM when it is used for stage monitoring than you would for other applications. I may be an exception here, but I look for my in-ears to be balanced and neutral. It's important that the sound of my studio monitors translate well to my IEM's. That way the guitar tones I develop in my home studio will also translate well to live IEM use on stage. I also prefer an uncoloured signature for general music listening.
 
Quote:

So far I have opened-up the bass/ambient ports a couple of twists and it definitely seems to help my situation. I can now hear the other horns a bit more acoustically on the left and I also don't feel the bass thumping more in my right ear from the bass & drums. I'm going to continue opening them a bit more on each side to see what happens...

 
It sounds like you don't have the optional ambient port, just the adjustable bass port that's part of the core build. Given that your bass port adjustments also facilitate more ambient sound, I'm wondering if the optional ambient port is really necessary. Perhaps the ambient port has little or no impact on bass performance so it allows bass and ambient levels to be adjusted separately.
 
Terry.

 

[jpmilner]

Okay. I am in lust. Count me in for the future group buy. I was saving up for the UERMs, but this thread has won me over.

 

[mgohler]

Thanks for your questions & comments Terry .
 
I had heard so much about how CIEM's would "change my life" & read so much about how the AS-2's were "game changers," that I didn't know WHAT to expect (maybe I would get that Bose speaker experience when you hear their demo on their top-of-the-line-speakers for the first time). I'm not putting down the Aurisonics at all, it's just my personal experience of re-adjusting from using the basic Shure universals...
 
The AS-2's are very isolating (they fit so snugly that I can hardly get them out of my ears), so almost ALL the sound is coming from them and not the stage... In my case, that makes me much more reliant on the quality of the microphones, mix etc. That's very different from the Shure's, where the sound was bleeding-in from all over the place!
 
Which brings me to the port(s). I guess that I was mistaken in believing that the one Bass port also serves as an ambient port. I noticed that AS-1's have a second Ambient port, which the AS-2 does not. It might be something that can be special-ordered though. I'll post what Andy had to say on the matter...
Quote:

 
Michel, can you elaborate on your sound quality comment? For example, were you "not blown-away" because they are too neutral, were they missing something, etc.?
 
I'm also curious about whether you expect something different from an IEM when it is used for stage monitoring than you would for other applications. I may be an exception here, but I look for my in-ears to be balanced and neutral. It's important that the sound of my studio monitors translate well to my IEM's. That way the guitar tones I develop in my home studio will also translate well to live IEM use on stage. I also prefer an uncoloured signature for general music listening.
 
 
It sounds like you don't have the optional ambient port, just the adjustable bass port that's part of the core build. Given that your bass port adjustments also facilitate more ambient sound, I'm wondering if the optional ambient port is really necessary. Perhaps the ambient port has little or no impact on bass performance so it allows bass and ambient levels to be adjusted separately.
 
Terry.

 

[mgohler]

Here is Andy's email about my AS-2 port(s) and also a link to a basic brochure. He also makes recommendations about removing the cables:
 
 
"I was reminded yesterday that you ordered an AS-2 which doesn't come with an ambient port - only a bass port. And I don't see a note that you ordered an ambient port - if you did, I am sorry for that oversight!
 
As it is - you have a tunable bass port, keeping it all the way closed will provide for a certain amount of bass response, and adjusting it will help you to tune that bass response to your liking, and your unique set of ears.
 
I'm glad that you're getting to a place of comfort with them - and I wouldn't worry about trying to see the changes - it is more about how it sounds in your ear as it is.
 
Please use this link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d62b5p6jirc6d11/Aurisonics_AS-2_Brochure_06-30-12.pdf to view the AS-2 brochure.
 
As for removing the cables, it does not require the removal of the screws. It is merely a recessed connection - carefully pull apart with the IEM in one hand and your other on the memory wire. You may also prefer to use a pair of pliers or similar to gently ease the cable out. When you do, please note the Red and Blue dots on the connectors - Red is for Right, and Blue for left - these dots face the back of the IEM - the opposite end to the tips. If you mix them up then the sound will be out of phase."

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgohler /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
The AS-2's are very isolating (they fit so snugly that I can hardly get them out of my ears), so almost ALL the sound is coming from them and not the stage... In my case, that makes me much more reliant on the quality of the microphones, mix etc. That's very different from the Shure's, where the sound was bleeding-in from all over the place!

 
Michel, you and I are opposites! I am currently using a universal set and I find the ambient "wash" coming in from the stage distracting. It seems to muddy things up for me so I've resorted to wearing a set of 28dB ear muffs OVER my IEM's to get enough isolation. Your comments about the AS-2's are in fact very encouraging to me! 

 
Do you get a stereo IEM feed? Being able to position each instrument in the stereo field to align with the stage layout would no doubt be very helpful for you.
 
I have added an old DBX IEM processor to my in-ear signal chain. The DBX has a number of tone shaping options but what I value most is reverb. Listening to your in-ears "dry" can be disconcerting because you are used to hearing some room ambience. You were getting that from the bleed with your universals but the AS-2 isolation has eliminated it. Adding some reverb to your IEM signal may change your mind about the need to open up your bass port. Can you ask your monitor tech to add some reverb to your IEM mix?
 
Quote:

Here is Andy's email about my AS-2 port(s) and also a link to a basic brochure. He also makes recommendations about removing the cables:
 
"I was reminded yesterday that you ordered an AS-2 which doesn't come with an ambient port - only a bass port. And I don't see a note that you ordered an ambient port - if you did, I am sorry for that oversight!

 
I hate to say it but I suggest that you are an ideal candidate for the optional ambient port. If you can't add some reverb to your IEM mix I would encourage you to see if it is possible to return your AS-2's and have it added.
 
BTW, thank you for the additional background on your situation and for your thoughts.
 
Terry.

 

[kenman345]

Okay guys, basically, you should be able to send them back in for the addition of ambient ports, talk to Andy though first obviously. The bass tunable port is not meant to allow ambient air like the ambient port will.
 
Adding some reverb may also help if you cannot get the ambient port installed.
 
Isolation is very key to getting the proper sound out of the ASG-2's. I would suggest opting for a custom sleeve for the tips of your ASG-2's to be able to get the proper isolation, or go for full fledged AS-2's if that is an option for you at the moment. Not sure how you have ASG-2's right now, I assume it's a demo unit you're trying out.
 
The reason the ambient port isnt standard on the AS-2's is because they are a bit more of a high-end CIEM. The target market has sound engineers mixing in the mics from stage into the AS-2's, which is essentially what the ambient port would do without so much work. If you need this type of effect they provide, and don't have someone mixing and controlling the input of your AS-2's, the Ambient port is the way for you to go to fix this. I think you'll find it much more to your liking when you have it the way you need it for your situation.

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenman345 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Adding some reverb may also help if you cannot get the ambient port installed.
 
The reason the ambient port isnt standard on the AS-2's is because they are a bit more of a high-end CIEM. The target market has sound engineers mixing in the mics from stage into the AS-2's, which is essentially what the ambient port would do without so much work. If you need this type of effect they provide, and don't have someone mixing and controlling the input of your AS-2's, the Ambient port is the way for you to go to fix this. I think you'll find it much more to your liking when you have it the way you need it for your situation.

 
Adding reverb can make a significant difference, and I suggest it's preferable for many musicians. An IEM mix that does not have ambient mic'ing, heard through highly isolating IEM's, is crisp, clear and "immediate". Adding reverb simply gives this type of mix a very nice "space" to live in, while still retaining the immediacy. I prefer this kind of stage experience.
 
Adding ambient mic'ing to an IEM mix, or opening the ambient ports, will add space to the mix but it also introduces delays. The sound of an instrument that is farther away will arrive later. Crowd noise arrives later still. The overall IEM mix becomes somewhat less distinct and less immediate. If there is a lot of this in the mix things can get "mushy" or "smeary". If you've ever heard a direct recording of a live concert, versus a recording made from a listening position back further in the auditorium, you'll know what I mean.
 
It really comes down to personal preference, and how well the ambient sound is integrated into the IEM's.
 
BTW, ambient mic'ing is often more about getting the sound of the audience into the IEM's, than it is about adding stage sound. A musician can feel very isolated and disconnected from the audience when using IEM's, and ambient mic'ing can bridge that gap when it's properly implemented.
 
Terry.

 

[mgohler]

I appreciate that you guys are willing to discuss the concerns of using IEM's "on stage" .
 
Generally, I would think that the the bass frequencies moving air is an indication of the strong low end capabilities of the AS-2's. It's just taking me a little re-adjusting to have the bass drum "in my head"! I've opened up the bass port all the way for now and and that seems to be working well for me...
 
I wish that I had known (or understood) about the ambient port option, as I might have opted for it. I feel that Aurisonics as a new company could improve their website with much more information about options, prices etc. If it wasn't for Head-Fi, I doubt that I would have found my way to them.
 
Thanks for clarifying about taking them out kenman. I do want to restate for the Forum that this is actually an indication of how well they fit. I've been playing with them for over a week now (20hrs+) and they are very comfortable. Also, the only reason that I'm removing them is because I can't hear the other sax player talking right next to me. That's how isolating they are.
 
Quote:

The dynamic driver is full frequency, that's part of the reason for that feeling of feeling all of the drums and the bass, because nothing you hear with any remote bass in it will be intersecting a crossover point, their arent any really.
 
Also, I didnt mean tugging on your wire. The part with the heatshrink/wire inside the cable right at the pins area is a very gentle pulling, if you tug it will probably hurt. Be gentle, and you'll figure it out soon. If not, i'll put together a short video. 

 
Quote:

Okay guys, basically, you should be able to send them back in for the addition of ambient ports, talk to Andy though first obviously. The bass tunable port is not meant to allow ambient air like the ambient port will.
 
Adding some reverb may also help if you cannot get the ambient port installed.
 
Isolation is very key to getting the proper sound out of the ASG-2's. I would suggest opting for a custom sleeve for the tips of your ASG-2's to be able to get the proper isolation, or go for full fledged AS-2's if that is an option for you at the moment. Not sure how you have ASG-2's right now, I assume it's a demo unit you're trying out.
 
The reason the ambient port isnt standard on the AS-2's is because they are a bit more of a high-end CIEM. The target market has sound engineers mixing in the mics from stage into the AS-2's, which is essentially what the ambient port would do without so much work. If you need this type of effect they provide, and don't have someone mixing and controlling the input of your AS-2's, the Ambient port is the way for you to go to fix this. I think you'll find it much more to your liking when you have it the way you need it for your situation.

 

[mgohler]

Thanks for your insightful comments Terry about stage monitorIng. Who knows? I might have hated the ambient port! It just would have been nice to have that option... I'm sure that you would get more isolation (26db) with the custom-fits. There's a very loud (blank) gunshot in the MEMPHIS show where all the musician's cover their ears, now there's no need as I blissfully sit there with the AS-2's on!
 
I create my own stereo feed with an Aviom 16-channel personal monitor http://www.aviom.com/AviomApplications/Monitor-Mixing.cfm.
I don't like to pan too hard to one side, as it feels a little artificial to me to hear an instrument in mostly one ear, but I'm experimenting as you suggested; fun . I think you're dead-on about the "dry" signal contributing to my re-adjustment. Another factor is that I hear my sax from the inside (a bit like talking when you have the IEM's in). I find that I have to keep my channel at a level louder than this personal sound.
 
I am really enjoying everyone's feedback & expertise!
 
Michel
 
Quote:

 
Michel, you and I are opposites! I am currently using a universal set and I find the ambient "wash" coming in from the stage distracting. It seems to muddy things up for me so I've resorted to wearing a set of 28dB ear muffs OVER my IEM's to get enough isolation. Your comments about the AS-2's are in fact very encouraging to me! 

 
Do you get a stereo IEM feed? Being able to position each instrument in the stereo field to align with the stage layout would no doubt be very helpful for you.
 
I have added an old DBX IEM processor to my in-ear signal chain. The DBX has a number of tone shaping options but what I value most is reverb. Listening to your in-ears "dry" can be disconcerting because you are used to hearing some room ambience. You were getting that from the bleed with your universals but the AS-2 isolation has eliminated it. Adding some reverb to your IEM signal may change your mind about the need to open up your bass port. Can you ask your monitor tech to add some reverb to your IEM mix?
 
 
I hate to say it but I suggest that you are an ideal candidate for the optional ambient port. If you can't add some reverb to your IEM mix I would encourage you to see if it is possible to return your AS-2's and have it added.
 
BTW, thank you for the additional background on your situation and for your thoughts.
 
Terry.

 
Quote:

 
Adding reverb can make a significant difference, and I suggest it's preferable for many musicians. An IEM mix that does not have ambient mic'ing, heard through highly isolating IEM's, is crisp, clear and "immediate". Adding reverb simply gives this type of mix a very nice "space" to live in, while still retaining the immediacy. I prefer this kind of stage experience.
 
Adding ambient mic'ing to an IEM mix, or opening the ambient ports, will add space to the mix but it also introduces delays. The sound of an instrument that is farther away will arrive later. Crowd noise arrives later still. The overall IEM mix becomes somewhat less distinct and less immediate. If there is a lot of this in the mix things can get "mushy" or "smeary". If you've ever heard a direct recording of a live concert, versus a recording made from a listening position back further in the auditorium, you'll know what I mean.
 
It really comes down to personal preference, and how well the ambient sound is integrated into the IEM's.
 
BTW, ambient mic'ing is often more about getting the sound of the audience into the IEM's, than it is about adding stage sound. A musician can feel very isolated and disconnected from the audience when using IEM's, and ambient mic'ing can bridge that gap when it's properly implemented.
 
Terry.

 

[Tone Seeker]

I'm really glad to hear that you're getting things dialed in Michel. I'm planning to get a set once the group buy comes to life, so I've been very interested to hear how things are working out for you in a live performance setting.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mgohler /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Another factor is that I hear my sax from the inside (a bit like talking when you have the IEM's in). I find that I have to keep my channel at a level louder than this personal sound.

 
You are probably used to hearing the sound of your sax from about two feet away, with it angled away from you. It will sound different to someone sitting across from you in a listening position. High frequencies are generally very directional while bass is not, so I suspect you hear a tone with more base content when you play. Now, position a mic on the end of your sax and it's yet another sound!
 
I play guitar and I was warned that propagation delay can be an issue for some guitarists moving to IEM's. Guitar players typically have an amp at their feet which puts the sound source about six feet away from their ears. That introduces a little over 5ms of delay, from the time they pick the note until it reaches their ears. When you use in-ears the sound is immediate, and you loose that propagation delay. Although it's very small, this delay can be disconcerting for some players. Worse yet, they may not realize why things "feel a bit off". Interesting stuff!
 
I appreciate kenman345's latitude in allowing things to go a bit off-topic. I'm hoping that others find the discussion useful down the road.
 
Terry.

 

[kenman345]

I honestly think this is precisely on topic. The AS-2's are designed for the professional in mind, and this is a professional use case. I also find it highly interesting to learn about these things and help me have a better understanding of the ambient ports usefulness and such. In the end, it's all about enjoying the music and this forum is just a tool to finding the best way to get what we're all looking for in a headphone (full-sized, portable, IEM, CIEM, etc....) and this is all part of the process. Also brings up the issue of needing to ask for ambient ports
Quote:

I appreciate kenman345's latitude in allowing things to go a bit off-topic. I'm hoping that others find the discussion useful down the road.
 
Terry.

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

I honestly think this is precisely on topic.

 
Great!
 
Quote:

I also find it highly interesting to learn about these things and help me have a better understanding of the ambient ports usefulness and such.

 
Another approach that some IEM vendors use is to build a small microphone into the IEM (e.g. Sensaphonics 3D Active Ambient). The IEM is fully sealed but you can blend in ambient sound captured by the IEM microphone using a belt pack. You don't loose any isolation so hearing protection is retained and the ambient sound is essentially the same as what you would hear without IEM's since the microphones are in your ears. Having one in each ear means you receive a binaural signal giving your brain directional information. As you move your head to look across the stage or at the audience, the ambient signal changes. This approach seems much better to me than using a stationary, mono, ambient mic. That said, I've never used an in-ear solution like this.
 
Opening the in-ear ports like Michel is doing is an easy, and relatively inexpensive approach to adding ambient sound to an in-ear mix. It also replicates what he would hear were he not using in-ears. It also seems fairly easy to try and hence is a good way to explore whether you like ambient sound in your mix or not. The IEM microphone approach is significantly more expensive but the isolation and hearing protection is better. Perhaps some signal shaping is also done to improve the musician's experience.
 
For me personally I plan on adding the ambient ports to my order. Not so much for stage use, but instead to keep me more aware of my surroundings as I walk around listening to my IEM's. I do landscape photography for example, and it's a good idea to remain aware of your surroundings aurally. Whether that can be accomplished I'm not sure, as it means letting in a lot of ambient sound. The seal, as kenman345 noted earlier, is key to getting a good sound. I'm also not sure if closing and opening the ports regularly is a good idea (e.g. open when doing photography or walking about and closed when playing on stage).
 
Terry.

 

[kenman345]

Well the seal is mainly because of the AS-2 needing the right amount of air pressure inside your ear to give you the impactful bass and crisp and sweet trebles you'll grow to love about the AS-2's if you own them. Not sure how the ambient air effect this as its not entirely changing the amount of air behind the driver or anything, but somewhere in between where it might not have as much of an effect. But that's not exactly something i would know. I dont have any need to open my ambient air port and dont plan on trying it. I rather not mess with anything that it wont be evenly effected between my two ears. They're great the way they are already for me.
Quote:

For me personally I plan on adding the ambient ports to my order. Not so much for stage use, but instead to keep me more aware of my surroundings as I walk around listening to my IEM's. I do landscape photography for example, and it's a good idea to remain aware of your surroundings aurally. Whether that can be accomplished I'm not sure, as it means letting in a lot of ambient sound. The seal, as kenman345 noted earlier, is key to getting a good sound. I'm also not sure if closing and opening the ports regularly is a good idea (e.g. open when doing photography or walking about and closed when playing on stage).
 
Terry.