[ProtegeManiac]

I wouldn't say *nobody* - I have bought several used universal IEMs on head-fi. I throw away the ear tips give them an alcohol wipe and use them. You aren't going to make a profit buying and selling - that's not what the head-fi buy/sell forum is for. But, you can trade-up or sideways for less than it would otherwise cost. CIEMs are probably more difficult to sell - someone wanting a CIEM probably has the money to buy new and will want to go directly to the company for a new pair.

 

That's the thing - I've seen for example some CIEMs that would have cost around $700 including shipping get sold used for as low as around $300, some even came with upgrade cables (regardless of how I feel about cables, just factor in the cost of that) - the main factor being that these aren't "plug and play." At minimum the buyer still has to have them reshelled.

 

[kazuhikoaikawa]

I wouldn't say *nobody* - I have bought several used universal IEMs on head-fi. I throw away the ear tips give them an alcohol wipe and use them. You aren't going to make a profit buying and selling - that's not what the head-fi buy/sell forum is for. But, you can trade-up or sideways for less than it would otherwise cost. CIEMs are probably more difficult to sell - someone wanting a CIEM probably has the money to buy new and will want to go directly to the company for a new pair.

Nobody would be too extreme sorry about that.
 
But in my opinion people who buy second hand are desperate or the particular iems has been discontinued by the manufacturer, so they have no choice but to buy second hand from other head fiers who have it and wanted to sell.
 
Not necessary so, if someone lets say he want a CIEM which cost 2000 dollars and he doesn't have the budget to do so , he can buy from the previous owner who ever wanted to sell it, Unless
he sacrifice a bit and save the $$$$ to buy that 2000 dollars CIEM. Which method he prefer is up to him.

 

[billybob_jcv]

Well - when someone no longer wants a headphone, you and I might just add them to our collection, but someone else might see that $300 they can get as better than nothing. And, if you are willing to buy used, then selling used isn't such a big hit. You paid $300, you had them reshelled, then you sold them for $300. You are only out the cost of the reshell. Isn't that better than being out the entire $700?

Note that I actually agree with you - I wouldn't do it that way, but I suspect other people would.

 

[kazuhikoaikawa]

   
I  never at any point claimed you might have a chance to profit from it - what I'm saying is that buying up several CIEMs is going to cost a lot of money due to the much lower resale value for each unit. A used universal for example can be sold for, say, 75% of its acquisition cost. For each CIEM, let's use a few ballpark figures to illustrate my point:

Ear impressions + shipping : $85
CIEM MSRP :  $500 
-----------------------------------------------------
Total : $585
 
 
Now, when you sell it, you don't base your computation on $585 - you base it on $500.


CIEM MSRP  : $500
(Subtract) Reshelling fee : $150
(Subtract) Depreciation : $100
-----------------------------------------------------
Estimated resale value : $250
 
Estimated acquisition cost to buyer (why the reshelling fee is subtracted above) : Estimated resale value + Reshelling fee = $400, + shipping costs where applicable
 
 
Loss per unit: $335, multiplied by how many $500 CIEMs were tried and sold. To the buyer, they're still effectively paying for 80% of MSRP, assuming you can sell it at that estimated resale value.
 
----
 
Now compare that to a universal IEM worth $500; worst case scenario, you tried all the included tips:
 
uIEM MSRP : $500
(subtract) used tips, full set : $40
(subtract) depreciation : $100
--------------------------------------------------
Estimated resale value: $360
 
Total loss per uIEM: $140
 
-----
 
See my point now?
 
 
 
 

I made the same point in my previous post about the "universal" fit demo units, but my main point was that the plan to try out several CIEMs and then selling them at higher losses due to reshelling costs to the buyer can ultimately result in total losses that probably would potentially be enough to buy a CIEM, depending on how many you go through. I'm just trying to keep you from spending too much money, especially when starting out with a strategy like that. People joke around with "sorry about your wallet" and the context is usually light ribbing but still in a way  goading people to just blow money. That's necessary for a hobby but doesn't mean you swipe your card like a machine gun spits out bullets.

 

Sorry if i did annoyed you in some way, but let me clear it up.
 
You have to sell lower than the retail price of a particular CIEMs or Universal IEMs in order to sell it to someone. but whether i make huge loss or less loss by selling CIEMs or IEMs 
is up to the buyer who want to buy from me.
 
But i will assume the buyer will buy at lowest price possible, because the buyer cannot know how much is worth or depreciate, so the buyer has to take a risk in buying second hand CIEMs or Universal IEMs . 
 
You have to swipe the card in order to know how good and bad it is. About selling CIEMs, I could keep some that I like and sell those that i don't like.
Making loss or spending  too much $$$$, does not matter to me. Most important is that i will find the best CIEMs for me, even if it cost thousand of $$$$.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Sorry if i did annoyed you in some way, but let me clear it up.
 
You have to sell lower than the retail price of a particular CIEMs or Universal IEMs in order to sell it to someone. but whether i make huge loss or less loss by selling CIEMs or IEMs 
is up to the buyer who want to buy from me.
 
But i will assume the buyer will buy at lowest price possible, because the buyer cannot know how much is worth or depreciate, so the buyer has to take a risk in buying second hand CIEMs or Universal IEMs . 
 
You have to swipe the card in order to know how good and bad it is. About selling CIEMs, I could keep some that I like and sell those that i don't like.
Making loss or spending  too much $$$$, does not matter to me. Most important is that i will find the best CIEMs for me, even if it cost thousand of $$$$.

 

I wasn't annoyed, more like confused because I never said anything about making a profit. In any case, my point was that you will still lose more money selling several used CIEMs since you have to subtract both depreciation and reshelling costs from the MSRP, which doesn't include your ear impressions. Heck buyers might even include the cost of getting their own ear impressions in order to deem getting used customs as bang for the buck vs getting theirs done new by the fabricator. Just warning you in case you didn't take that into account as I've seen many CIEMs that aren't that old sell for less than half the MSRP (again there were other costs involved, like shipping; taxes where applicable also, since you have to send these back out, and if you're not in the US, when they come back after reshelling, they can get taxed again since the recipient now isn't the original).

 

[squallkiercosa]

- There is certainly a "law of diminishing returns" in this hobby. the best value IEM/CIEM is usually the cheapest one. 
- It depends also where you live, some asian companies offer good deals but only for the local market. 
- Nowadays the USD dollar exchange rate makes buying anything outside the States a better deal, so buying products from others companies should be considered.  
- Fit is a mayor concern, find a good audiologist.
- CIEMs are not meant be reshelled or sold whatsoever (like many headfiers mentioned) because of the low resale value, so trying many of them is not a good investment. I had my TF10 reshelled and selling them implied losing a lot of money. I strongly discourage you getting CIEMs for the sake of testing. 
 
Just to let you know: Nobody needs 6 8 or 10 drivers to enjoy music. 3 seems to be the best of both world (although some people claimed that the 2driver JH5 sounded better than the 4driver W4R)

Quoted:

-"First off, I am going to reiterate a point which I have made in several other articles since many of our readers are not familiar with the audiophile world when it comes to sound quality. With high end audio equipment, the value per dollar greatly decreases as you go up the cost ladder. For example, a piece of audio equipment that costs twice as much may only sound slightly better. But this is what the audiophile world is all about. People spend big bucks on audio equipment to get ultimately great sound rather than spend less and maybe settle for only great sound. And remember, good sound quality is a very personal thing. If it sounds good to you, you have accomplished your goal, (but to be on the safe side, you might just consider avoiding listening to someone else’s audiophile setup)."

- "...I've learned that once you get up to a certain level in the audiophile headphone world, one headphone is not necessarily better than another"....

Copyright © 2009 Bill K and Listening Station

 

[kazuhikoaikawa]

  - There is certainly a "law of diminishing returns" in this hobby. the best value IEM/CIEM is usually the cheapest one. 
- It depends also where you live, some asian companies offer good deals but only for the local market. 
- Nowadays the USD dollar exchange rate makes buying anything outside the States a better deal, so buying products from others companies should be considered.  
- Fit is a mayor concern, find a good audiologist.
- CIEMs are not meant be reshelled or sold whatsoever (like many headfiers mentioned) because of the low resale value, so trying many of them is not a good investment. I had my TF10 reshelled and selling them implied losing a lot of money. I strongly discourage you getting CIEMs for the sake of testing. 
 
Just to let you know: Nobody needs 6 8 or 10 drivers to enjoy music. 3 seems to be the best of both world (although some people claimed that the 2driver JH5 sounded better than the 4driver W4R)

Quoted:

-"First off, I am going to reiterate a point which I have made in several other articles since many of our readers are not familiar with the audiophile world when it comes to sound quality. With high end audio equipment, the value per dollar greatly decreases as you go up the cost ladder. For example, a piece of audio equipment that costs twice as much may only sound slightly better. But this is what the audiophile world is all about. People spend big bucks on audio equipment to get ultimately great sound rather than spend less and maybe settle for only great sound. And remember, good sound quality is a very personal thing. If it sounds good to you, you have accomplished your goal, (but to be on the safe side, you might just consider avoiding listening to someone else’s audiophile setup)."

- "...I've learned that once you get up to a certain level in the audiophile headphone world, one headphone is not necessarily better than another"....

Copyright © 2009 Bill K and Listening Station

Nice advice, i agree that one headphone is not necessarily better than another, but to me there is only one that is the best for me. The problem i have is finding which is the one that i'm looking for.
 
I live in asia, so buying US Dollars ($$$$) product would be quite expensive to me, but i still can make up for it. 

 

[kazuhikoaikawa]

   

I wasn't annoyed, more like confused because I never said anything about making a profit. In any case, my point was that you will still lose more money selling several used CIEMs since you have to subtract both depreciation and reshelling costs from the MSRP, which doesn't include your ear impressions. Heck buyers might even include the cost of getting their own ear impressions in order to deem getting used customs as bang for the buck vs getting theirs done new by the fabricator. Just warning you in case you didn't take that into account as I've seen many CIEMs that aren't that old sell for less than half the MSRP (again there were other costs involved, like shipping; taxes where applicable also, since you have to send these back out, and if you're not in the US, when they come back after reshelling, they can get taxed again since the recipient now isn't the original).

Does not matter to me who pay the shipping cost and other taxes, if i'm willing to sell my CIEMs, as the owner i will make it a smooth process, i can also negotiate the cost for the buyer, so that it does not burden him, unless he has a limited budget, then i may offer him a very good deal.
 
Main point, if i'm selling, then i do my best to sell them to the rightful owner that deserve it, if i'm desperate to sell, selling my CIEMs to anyone would be consider.
 
Well, i hope that i don't need to sell my CIEMs, because it takes time, effort and $$$$ to get the CIEMs. 

 

[billybob_jcv]

You are making the classic mistake. You think there is *one* headphone that is best for you, so you believe you need to find "the one". This is not how a head-fier thinks! We know that this headphone is simply the *next* headphone we are going to buy. It is never the *last* headphone. That takes all the pressure off - we buy headphones because we like headphones and we know we will be buying more headphones in the future. It's only money...

 

[kazuhikoaikawa]

You are making the classic mistake. You think there is *one* headphone that is best for you, so you believe you need to find "the one". This is not how a head-fier thinks! We know that this headphone is simply the *next* headphone we are going to buy. It is never the *last* headphone. That takes all the pressure off - we buy headphones because we like headphones and we know we will be buying more headphones in the future. It's only money...

Very true, well said. The $$$$ is important for such hobby.
 
Is also true that i may like many CIEMs and headphones , but sooner or later i will find the best for me(In my opinion) and it would be end game, unless the manufacturer keep producing better and better and reach perfection. Well i hope that they will continue and strive for perfection, so that i can continue finding fantastic audio product, if not life would be quite boring.
 
Thanks for the advice, i do hope that i can find "THE ONE", and can finally take a break and continue pursue what we all like in head fi.
 
 

 

[K.I. Unlimited]

If you're still alive (in this hobby) today, just get a pair of UE18+.

 

[kazuhikoaikawa]

If you're still alive (in this hobby) today, just get a pair of UE18+.

Still alive somehow still kicking, thanks for the recommendation, THL highly rated it, is yours and THL are the current 3rd GEN or previous gen?

Have you try the UE LIVE? Seems both have similarity, strange though UE LIVE description is for studio while 18+pro for stage.