[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio OK. That's damn near enough of that. Your obsession with these headphones is bordering on rediculous, they're not an extension of you. Anybody who makes a decision on brand anyway without trying them or being willing to try other brands is silly anyhow. The rep of the DT 880 is NOT in danger. It's a great headphone.

What do you think the origins of the term "Sennheiser veil" are? I'm sure it was just one or two people vehemently and repeatedly talking about how "veiled" they sounded. Suddenly it caught on and became a robotic theme repeated ad nauseum around here, even by people who have never heard Senns.

Do you really want something similar to happen to the DT880? All it takes is one person passionately emphasizing over and over how bright they are, and how badly they need "corrected" with EQ (

). I think we're already seeing the beginnings of this meme catching on, do we need to fan the flames even more?

I'm not obsessed at all with the DT880, in fact I prefer the AKG K501 over them these days for a lot of my listening. It just bothers me a lot to see a false, exaggerated theme about "treble spikes" which is going to discourage many people from ever trying them (despite the fact that they sound quite neutral to many folks, including treble-sensitive ears like mine).

It bothers me just as much to read about the Sennheiser "veil," never mind that I no longer own a pair and probably never will again (comfort issues). There is no such thing as the "Sennheiser veil," it's a meme that got repeated over and over until it took on a life of its own, with people even reading this into the sound when they hear a pair just because it's "accepted wisdom" that they're "veiled." I mean duuh, Senns are "veiled," right?

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch What do you think the origins of the term "Sennheiser veil" are? I'm sure it was just one or two people *vehemently* and repeatedly talking about how "veiled" they sounded. Suddenly it caught on and became a robotic theme repeated ad nauseum around here, even by people who have never heard Senns. Do you really want something similar to happen to the DT880? All it takes is one person passionately emphasizing over and over how bright they are, and how badly they need "corrected" with EQ ( ). I think we're already seeing the beginnings of this meme catching on, do we need to fan the flames even more? I'm not obsessed at all with the DT880, in fact I prefer the AKG K501 over them these days. It just bothers me a lot to see a false, exaggerated meme get started about "treble spikes" which is going to discourage many people from ever trying them. It bothers me just as much to read about the Sennheiser "veil," never mind that I no longer own a pair. There is no such thing as the "Senn veil," it's a meme that got repeated over and over until it took on a life of its own.

I know, I know. I don't think the "Senn veil" kept me from buying HD650s though. The DT880s are bright. The Senns are dark. There is a veil, until they burn in... I know that personally now. But I just don't think that defending them in such a manner is going to do anything to help them... I think people will just see one guy sticking up for his headphones, and maybe not see that they're more than capable of standing up on their own!

And the DT880s CAN stand on their own.

EDIT: Damn it, no pun intended.

 

[Steve999]

Prior to this post, I have mentioned the treble spike in exactly two threads, in exactly six posts. You're doing a lot more to give it publicity than I am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch I don't think you're realizing what kind of effect you're having repeating over and over "bright...treble spike... bright... treble spike..."

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 Prior to this post, I have mentioned the treble spike in exactly two threads, in exactly six posts. You're doing a lot more to give it publicity than I am. And you're attacking me personally.

Oh? In what way do you feel attacked?

I'm asking you to chill out on repeated references to the DT880 as an extremely bright headphone with a treble spike. In what way is this a personal attack?

P.S. you admitted yourself to the obsessiveness bit.

 

[Steve999]

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[Steve999]

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[Steve999]

I said it was moderately bright. I never once said extremely bright. NEVER. GET A GRIP. NOW STOP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch I'm asking you to chill out on repeated references to the DT880 as an extremely bright headphone with a treble spike.

 

[bill99hawk]

LMAO, Well aside from the headphone feud going on here, cough cough. I went ahead and order the HD650s. I will report back my opinion. The DT880s are on ebay for anyone interested in trying them out (ebay member bill99hawk).

 

[Steve999]

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[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill99hawk LMAO, Well aside from the headphone feud going on here, cough cough. I went ahead and order the HD650s. I will report back my opinion. The DT880s are on ebay for anyone interested in trying them out (ebay member bill99hawk).

Cool! I think you'll enjoy them. I know I have! I've had the best "honeymoon" period with them of any can I've had this week! Burn them in, but check in on them every 24 hours or so... by FAR one of the most interesting burn-ins I've heard, of all the cans I've had!

 

[Rickio]

What was this topic about?

Well I am still fairly new to headphones but jumped in the deep end and am digging it. I have the HD580's and the DT880s and I totally enjoy them both. I think enjoyment is what it's all about. Right?

I can hear what people like about the Senns sound and the DT880's are also very very nice. I do think that many times the music and the mastering dictate which headphone is best.

I do think I shall enventually get a akg701 and hd650 as well as a higher end grado. Cuz they sound so dang good!!!

BTW I have a older version as well as the newer SR225i and the older one has more bass, more treble and more details. I was hearing a rather difficult track off a Emerson, Lake and Palmer album and was hearing the HD 580's, it seemed like they could not reach the high end and was not clear. I switched to DT 880's and I could hear it clearer and could actually hear what Keith Emerson was doing. He was holding down a key and it was (don't know how to explain it) kinda of grattling or rumbling but in a high end. With the HD 580 is was just a screech.

I put on the older SR225 and dang, it was smooth and clearer then the DT880!!!

I think the point is, if you like lot's of music, you might need a few can's

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickio What was this topic about? Well I am still fairly new to headphones but jumped in the deep end and am digging it. I have the HD580's and the DT880s and I totally enjoy them both. I think enjoyment is what it's all about. Right? I can hear what people like about the Senns sound and the DT880's are also very very nice. I do think that many times the music and the mastering dictate which headphone is best. I do think I shall enventually get a akg701 and hd650 as well as a higher end grado. Cuz they sound so dang good!!! BTW I have a older version as well as the newer SR225i and the older one has more bass, more treble and more details. I was hearing a rather difficult track off a Emerson, Lake and Palmer album and was hearing the HD 580's, it seemed like they could not reach the high end and was not clear. I switched to DT 880's and I could hear it clearer and could actually hear what Keith Emerson was doing. He was holding down a key and it was (don't know how to explain it) kinda of grattling or rumbling but in a high end. With the HD 580 is was just a screech. I put on the older SR225 and dang, it was smooth and clearer then the DT880!!! I think the point is, if you like lot's of music, you might need a few can's

Totally. This is 100% correct. I am a true believer in having a main can and a secondary or two.

 

[sacd lover]

I have owned the beyer dt880, senn 650, senn 600 and now the akg k701. The senn 600 is a more balanced and less congested sounding headphone than the senn 650 IMO .... I definitely prefer the senn 600. I have proven this fact to myself countless times and I am very happy with the 600's.

Despite fewtch's claims otherwise

, the beyer does have a nasty treble spike. I have measured the 880's frequency response and it does exist. In my case, this treble anomoly attracts and directs my attention away from the music to the frequency imbalances this flaw creates. The beyer is so flat and smooth otherwise this flaw is obvious and the resulting overly prominent and etched treble bothered me personally to the point I just sold the headphone. If you are sensitive to treble flaws this is not the headphone for you. If not, the 880 can be very enjoyable especially if you listen at lower volumes.

The akg k701 is a very well balanced and refined listen. With an amp with good bass this headphone does everything very well. I am not sure which one I prefer between the senn 600 and the 701 at this point. At their best with a synergistic amp and anciliaries they both excell and I can blissfully listen to my music for hours with no distractions ..... which in the end is what we all strive for.

 

[fewtch]

Guys, sorry for the hostility on my part. This is a bad time of year for me... I usually get depressed, but this year it's just coming out as irritability and anger. Too little light, too long of a winter.

P.S. Ikon, your approach seems reasonable... at least you admit you've got a serious oversensitivity to treble and fault yourself more than the headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover At their best with a synergistic amp and anciliaries they both excell and I can blissfully listen to my music for hours with no distractions ..... which in the end is what we all strive for.

You think so, huh? Personally, I strive for neutrality, accuracy and naturalness. Why? Because that's what live music sounds like. So far, the DT880 gives my ears the most accurate picture of what music really sounds like in real life. HD580/600 isn't even close... it's a pleasant lie that (aside from the nasty clamping force) I can listen to for hours with no distractions, never being able to forget that I'm listening to a damn recording on a pair of headphones. That's why HD580/600 are no longer in my possession.

 

[Ikon]

Sorry to attack the Beyers in this regard too, but I have exactly the same impressions as sacd lover. I had my DT880 (the old version) for about a month before returning them and now I have the brand new DT990 here which have similar issues.

The treble is a bit too present and has a distracting character. Aside from that it's borderline harsh with many songs, unless it's extremely warm amped (which tends to kill some other details).
I really envy anyone who can take this treble without getting fatigued, as I can only enjoy the Beyers with songs where its treble doesn't get "in the way" *looks lustful at the HD580*

Well, after all we are talking about preferences here, so there is no definite truth.

At least the issue has improved a little with the new DT990. I feel that with days of op-amp rolling and perhaps a bit equalization, I have a chance of "taming" the Beyers

(note that I am very sensitive to harshness/coldness in the highs, which makes me pretty much an exclusive Senn man)