REAL bose vs skullcandies thread
Dec 7, 2009 at 3:17 PM Post #107 of 123
I.... clicked... Bose. I am ashamed. I did it because I was impressed a while back by their active noise cancelling. It was not that good, but the effect was interesting. Bose, at least, has a product for these various applications, and people buy lots of stuff because it has a brand name. Brand loyalty, in moderation, is not something that bothers me too much.

I will say this about the skulls. Hot chicks like them. I am attracted to, lets just say, women that have as many piercings and tattoos as the skullcandies have bullets, camo, and pink fluffy pads with little skulls imprinted about.

See, I care about what I listen to. I am the audiophile. I spend the huge amounts of money for diminishing returns, but I don't care what my girl is listening to and how crappy it sounds, as long as she is my cute little goth girl. The Skullcandies can be a blesssing. Remember, everyone that has a pair on, is one less person playing their loudness war music on a crappy mini system, or ghetto blaster. I would not mind at all if my girl had the worst sounding SKs with an apple ipod (ugh), and itunes playlists of Nickleback and Linkn Park... the headphones keep that stuff away from my space, and they go with the kind of fashion I want to see on a woman: Total chaos. Goth ragdollies can have their skulls, my girl does not get ny more enjoyment from my audiophile stuff than her stuff, so I save money too.

Music has become a fashion accesory, and SK fills a niche where someone wants others to know they don't walk the beaten path. I could go as far as SK as fashion being as "different" as anything we praise. I doubt someone with Stax or HD800s, or Grados (though, Grado has an interesting design that appeals to steampunkers, and so they actually would be more accepted into the alternitive lifestyle than your average Senns, or in this case Bose.)

Now that I think of it, the HD800s would fit right in with cybergoth/industrial fashion, so perhaps Skullcandy should take note of our strange headphones that prefer function over form, because they raise an eyebrow of anyone wearing SKs in the same way we raise a brow at those sporting the pink fluffy earpads.

Bose ARE boring. They are straight up boring. Their HT stuff should be illegal because of how much of a rip-off it is, (Ever see a freq. plot of an Acoustimass system?), but older people snatch them up almost as a status symbol. Psychologically, the more you pay, the more you are going to "want" to like it. Cognitive dissonance. SK knows their market, but so does Bose. Which one of the two offer the most satisfaction to the target market. I would put my money on the skulls. Why? Bose is boring. Just an expensive solution to a desire, nothing else, and it doesn' do it that well anyway. At least SK can sit atop a hot goth chick, dressed to the 9s and not seem out of place. Oh and they make sound too. Bonus! They are really a fashion accessory that happens to also function has headphones. I don't fault them for that, and I do not expect them to be giant killers. The right people can afford them, so no big deal.

Bose, on the other hand, I dislike for selling snake oil to people that don't know any better. They are fully aware of this and take full advantage. They do not make an attempt to change this consumer climate because their brand keeps bringing people in. Bose is the white pickett fence, proof that one has "made it" in America. Totally different animal. If Bose was honest, perhaps this discussion would be moot, but as long as Bose continues to push marketing out as though they are the end all be all, I am going to have a huge problem with them. Most HTIB systems sound better than the Acoustimass, and cost 1/4 of the price. The problem is, they cost 1/4 of the price, so standing next to Bose in a store, they are quite literally, "cheap", though Bose may sound much worse, the higher price gives the impression of quality, thus a symbol of status. That is far worse than a fashion accesssory that happens to play some music too.

I clicked Bose because they probably sound a little better, but when one looks at this through the lense of our culture today, Bose is the true criminal. Nobody is going to look hot wearing a set of Bose headphones. There is a much better chance of me enjoying the look of someone more apt to buy a pair of Skulls. That they play music is just a bonus to the fashion accessory. Nothing wrong with trying to be social, creative, interesting. Then again, so are we, as our 'phones look just as "out of place", just in a different way. Bose defines boring and then packages it for sale at a ridiculous price.
 
Dec 7, 2009 at 3:58 PM Post #109 of 123
Unfortunately "form over function" is so common where it needs not to be.

I refuse to buy LED case fans for my PC. The LED in the 80% of products means the money that would have went towards a real ball bearing went towards the LED, leaving a teflon bushing that will seize up in less than a year unless you oil them. I used to spennd a lot of time oiling case and PSU fans back in the day. It was just something I had to do about every 6-8 months. I bought some better BB fans without LEDs and never have I had to service them in years.

We are on a thin line here. Most SK customers know what they are getting. They honestly don't care about presentation and soundstaging. They aren't going to check a freq. response plot, they just what the cute little skulls and pink fluffy earpads. The music is more social, and less of a personal experience.

There are those that enter the audiophile hobby, and whether headphones or speakers, these people are the ones WE are concerned about in this thread. When SK announces they have audiophile headphones, someone might buy them thinking they have some real good cans, not knowing the plethora of really good cans for 100 dollars or less that can smash any SK set any day of the week. Those are the people we get pissed off at Skullcandy for taking their money. Those same people may have grown up hearing Bose is the best, and walk straight to it when they are ready to "invest". These people aren't aware that the stuff next to the Bose Keosk is probably better. Nobody at the store is going to tell them, that is for sure.

It is a matter of ethics. SK just isn't as ethically misguided as Bose, and in fact, Kids with Skullcandies may come here, see that there is a whole world of good stuff out there and enter into the hobby, just like in general audiophilia when someone hears a good 2 channel NAD receiver for the first time. It isn't much more than some big box brand, but it sounds amazing compared to it. Suddenly the interest is caught. A taste for the higher end is developed. SK does not deaden those taste buds, but serve as a bridge for the youth to enter, but Bose targets the ignorant, and they prefer that the person remain ignorant, so they tell their friends to get Bose, and their kids, when they are ready to settle into the world, Bose may be, to them, a symbol of success, when really, they just overpaid for some low-midfi stuff, depending on what it is. Their 'phones are better than their speakers, I will give them that, but it is hard to REALLY screw up headphones, at least as much as the Acoustimass speaker system. There is no headphone equal to that disaster. Not even the table rattling Skulls.

I agree with the one that stated those that buy Bose believe they are already there, but SK is more of a bridge to the world of hifi.
 
Dec 7, 2009 at 4:55 PM Post #110 of 123
One more to the "neither Bose nor Skullcandy" side.

With stuff like Denon AH-P372 and Roland RH-50 being fairly cheap, what's the point?

Audiophile Collection - Headphones by Skullcandy

- who in his sane audiophile mind would ever wear something with skulls on ears? :p
 
Dec 7, 2009 at 6:01 PM Post #111 of 123
Nobody. They stepped out of their market.

They are a fashion accessory, akin to the ipod earbuds, but more emo, I guess. The thing is, in my experience, A: skullcandy appeals to women more than men. B: The people that want to have skulls on their ears to accent the dark eyeshadow and lolita/harajuku dress wear, they listen to songs, listen to words, it is a social culture of music as more of a message they wish to project, rather than, obsessing about where the bass player is with respect to the drummer, or how the violin section is over *there* and the wind section is over *here*. I was at a hipster store and a popular item was a mono speaker designed to look like a mini Fender amp. The idea was that it took batteries and could play music from an ipod or something so everyone could enjoy. Except it was mono, and the speaker itself was very low grade. None of this detracted from the enjoyment of the music by the people that I have seen pick up a set of SKs.

On the flip side, they see my desire for fidelity pointless. I spent a lot on my nearfield system, and now I am working on a headphone system. I have put labor and money into all of it, and the reason why is lost on the people picking up the Skulls "because they look cool". I rather look like a dork with odd shaped phones on, including even the PortaPro in public, as well as the XB700 by Sony. I still make mix TAPES because I want to capture the sound of my non-os tubed DAC, monarchy DIP, and bit perfect s/pdif out. You cannot do that on an mp3 player, as the file takes the signature of whatever player you use.

WE would not buy skullcandy Audiophile editions, except maybe the IEMs if they are el-cheapo, for gifts or just rough use.

Bose has a target too, but it is not a young target. Bose doe well in marketing to the boomers these all-in-one systems, and in their minds, it is a good deal, because they remember their marantz, Sansui, or Pioneer systems and how much space they took up, so the tiny cubes are a wife's friend. Not many young people care about Bose. Most don't know much about them, and they don't really have opinions. Stamp skulls on them and put them in Hot Topic and suddenly they are cool, a fashion accessory that happens to also play music.

SK will not be able to get out of that market and into ours. It won't happen. When people grow out of their SKs they turn to the same places we do, or they just dismiss music and go about their lives. Not everyone has a passion for music. As I said, Skullcandy headphones are directly pointed at the alternitive youth, and with great success. I never though "hello kitty" would ever be cared about. I was a kid and I thought it was a silly thing. I was listening to Yes albums on vinyl on my vintage Pioneer system.

I think an audiophile, if itis full range or headphone, we are people that are passionate about music in a way that is far beyond the typical person. If Skullcandy can get people to listen, and socially trade, thus expanding their tastes, then we should welcome anyone here that wishes to upgrade. To be honest, a lot of people that like little skulls everywhere, they love music, and are ripe to enter into this world, for in a way, we are all outcasts of sort. That is what SK appeals to, and that is why I do not mind them existing.

Bose delivers false promises, they take advantage of the ignorant, and they do nothing to try to educate them. They will return to the store years later and get more Bose, while, yet again, the HTIB sitting next to the Bose kiosk sounds far better for far less cash. But it isn't Bose! Skullcandy is entering Bose territory if they claim to have this audiophile line, however, the word audiophile has lost alot of meaning. M-Audio uses it, and they are some of the worst recording hardware around. By nature, it is subjective.

If the manufacturer must tell you it is for audiophiles, then I would steer clear. IT only becomes something of the audiophile community when we, and others like us, ralley around it, spreading the word. Wilson Audio does not need to tell people they make audiophile speakers. PSB does not need to tell people they make some of the best value oriented audiophile speakers. We do it. Sennheiser doesn't have to run an add in the paper or on TV to let people know their HD600 is a legendary headphone and their HD800 is on the cutting edge of a dynamic 'phone. We do that. If it is bad, we say it. We have said many times before the shortcomings of Bose and SK. In our community it is no secret.

The truth of the matter is that Skullcandy gets more people here into a world of true hifi than Bose ever will. I had to spend an hour talking to a friend to convince him that Sony produced abetter noise cancelling 'phone than Bose. (it was even less expensive)

When he listened to them, his love for Bose quickly faded along with the noise of the airplane. Now he owns two pair, plus he knows about Sennheiser, Ultrasone, some of the better Sonys, Grados, and so forth. We do not have to talk to people for hours to ge them to leave team Skullcandy once they have heard their first real hifi headphone.

Bose is somewhat like a diamond. Artificially inflated, and marketed in a way where the goal is to make you brand loyal (Apple Computer anyone? They are worse than Bose sometimes). If Bose spend less on TV ads and more on R&D, they could easily make a good product, but they sell perception, not product. At least Skullcandy knows what it is to some degree. This Audiophile thing, I hope it does not last. They have their niche, and they ren't going to win us over, and their niche cares little.
 
Dec 7, 2009 at 6:22 PM Post #112 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by yashu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If Bose spend less on TV ads and more on R&D, they could easily make a good product, but they sell perception, not product.


Correction: illusion, not perception.
 
Dec 7, 2009 at 6:30 PM Post #113 of 123
i voted bose as well, when i was 16 I bought triports and then when I found out my HD-555s were better I sold them promptly, the guy who bought them from me for $35 said, "No Highs, No Lows, Bose Blows."
 
Dec 7, 2009 at 9:07 PM Post #116 of 123
it is certainly weird when ytou turn it on and you hear everything begin to go away as it introduces opposing phase. It is almost unnatural. I always wondered, if the diaphram is already moving to cancel noise, it must have a hard time reproducing sound correctly. I know Bose it notorious for using cheap drivers, so hell, there might be a paper coned little speaker in there, you never know with Bose. The "Illusion". They have to setup these big demonstrations separate from everything else to be able to sell their stuff, perhaps because they do not want you comparing them to some better phones, or in the case of speakers, turn on the Polk LSi9s and be blown away.

I also think the demo Kiosk holds an EQ in the back to jack certain freq. so it will sound "different" in the loud environment of a big box store. I would not be remotely surprised if they did this to sell them. Then you hook them up at home and wonder what you are doing wrong because it is not sounding like it did in the store.

I *have* heard that complaint on AVS board.

I suppose buying Skullcandies strictly on looks is just as much of a crap shoot.
 
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:07 PM Post #117 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by theHof /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"No Highs, No Lows, Bose Blows."


LOL
beyersmile.png
 
Dec 8, 2009 at 11:34 AM Post #118 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by yashu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
it is certainly weird when ytou turn it on and you hear everything begin to go away as it introduces opposing phase. It is almost unnatural. I always wondered, if the diaphram is already moving to cancel noise, it must have a hard time reproducing sound correctly. I know Bose it notorious for using cheap drivers, so hell, there might be a paper coned little speaker in there, you never know with Bose. The "Illusion". They have to setup these big demonstrations separate from everything else to be able to sell their stuff, perhaps because they do not want you comparing them to some better phones, or in the case of speakers, turn on the Polk LSi9s and be blown away.

I also think the demo Kiosk holds an EQ in the back to jack certain freq. so it will sound "different" in the loud environment of a big box store. I would not be remotely surprised if they did this to sell them. Then you hook them up at home and wonder what you are doing wrong because it is not sounding like it did in the store.

I *have* heard that complaint on AVS board.

I suppose buying Skullcandies strictly on looks is just as much of a crap shoot.


Thing is, perception is constant (and eternal), illusion is the alteration of perception. Perception can't be "sold", it's already there in every human being. But it can be altered so it doesn't image what's there.

It might not be an artificial EQ, just the whole system's EQ. Basically they would raise some parts of midrange and treble to make speakers stand out in a demo room. It's not just Bose who does this, Kenwood is also a bit guilty of that (their bookshelf speakers used to have a smilie EQ with a "bass kick" boost that makes them appear "larger than they are").
 
Dec 8, 2009 at 6:20 PM Post #120 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I voted for those ugly-ass Skullcandies, just because I love hanging out at the mall food court, buying all my punk T-shirts at Hot Topic, and texting on my Go Phone while rocking out to Linkin Park and Fallout Boy...

NOT!


ROFL! This totally sums up every skullcandy user. Only those kids back in high school who thought they were "individuals" by dressing and acting like morons would wear those PoS's.
 
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