READ THIS: Serious flaws in ipod classic
Sep 21, 2007 at 3:58 AM Post #196 of 320
Quote:

Originally Posted by lustaficko /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Mirumu,

Would you consider the iPod Classic to be fatiguing with E500s?

With all the comments about the Classic being bright, and the previous critiques of the 5.5g.. I'm not sure which way to lean.



No, I don't consider the Classic bright with the E500s. The E500s though do have a tendency towards darkness themselves so it could well be that they cancel each other out to a large degree. On a few songs it can sound a little harsh but I don't believe that's anything that isn't in the music itself. I don't find the combination fatiguing at all.
 
Sep 21, 2007 at 3:47 PM Post #197 of 320
Quote:

Originally Posted by afobisme /img/forum/go_quote.gif
but being a winner in the audiophile crowd means... nothing to them.


Amen to that.
 
Sep 21, 2007 at 6:07 PM Post #199 of 320
my thoughts after now a days uses of the 5.5G and the 6G (which is shortly to be returned to Apple)

6G is cleaner sounding - and headphone amplification appears better .. but overall let down by the following

(1) too bright ... definately brighter than my 5.5G - by quite a margain
(2) far worse is the artefacts, s's of female vocals, symbols that sort of thing - all sound like they have a metal edge to it - you could could it tizz - or you could call it ringing - but not good at all.

in comparison I've found the 5.5G

(1) definately warmer
(2) sounds a bit more muddled - but not an unpleasant sound
(3) everything has a slight grain to it - but again not an unpleasant sound and very listenable to

much prefer the 5.5G

as for video has anyone got both and done a side to side comparison ? as when I did - the LCD on my samples

(a) the 5.5G seemed slightly sharper
(b) the 6G had a definate green cast to everything - very noticeable when you compared the 5.5G

from a physical and userability point of view

(i) 6G has got to win for battery life but I was obviously unable to tell from very short use
(ii) 6G 80 gig is noticeably thinner than 5.5G
(iii) also noticeably lighter
(iv) touchwheel or whatever you call it is much better on the 5.5G - its easy to select one up and one down, but on the 6G
its not .. why I have no idea - but the 5.5G one is better to use
(v) really like the new Apple GUI on the 6G - very nice indeed, liked coverflow, wasn't laggy at all for me

but the sound artefacts would drive me mad .. hence I'm keeping the 5.5G and would if I had the choice again go for a 5.5G

just my thoughts

YMMV

now to get an line-amp for the IPOD

Mark.
 
Sep 21, 2007 at 7:48 PM Post #201 of 320
Buckster, did you compare them unamped?
Could you better describe these soundartifacts plz cause i do not realize anything similar. Music examples welcome
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Sep 21, 2007 at 7:51 PM Post #202 of 320
Milk and Coffeee - don't have an amp - so was only using headphone out ....

I'm not sure how to describe these artefacts to be honest -without going into typical hifi magazine terminology dribble... you know the stuff ...

music - just about anything to be honest ! even some male vocals sounded a bit spitty in places - which is quite unusual ..
 
Sep 21, 2007 at 8:17 PM Post #203 of 320
I got to this thread searching for iPod 6G sound quality issues (as I've heard about them off forum). I'll try to address a few things speaking as an EE.

The transfer function of a system (amplifier, filter, etc. - not necessarily electrical) is described by the amplitude response and phase response. You need both to fully describe the system - neither gives you the full picture. Actually, even both together still don't describe everything - they are a mathematic construct and it is often forgotten that in real world there are issues that will affect the output signal yet won't show up in the transfer function - e.g. jitter. Group delay, as mentioned, is a derivative of the phase by the frequency. Therefore if the phase is linear by frequency, the group delay will be constant.

An ideal amplifier would be the one where its amplitude response is constant (flat) - equal to the amplification factor, while the phase response is linear. Such a system will not introduce any distortion (if you give it 1kHz, you won't get any harmonics at 2, 3, 4 and so on).

A lot of attention has been placed on the frequency response for many decades. Ironically, solutions employed to keep frequency response flat usually do so by sacrificing phase linearity - especially when talking about filters.

Some people - including ones I trust - say that nonlinear phase response leads to audible artifacts. This is one of the reasons some audiophiles shunned digital - and still do to this day. They typically talk about harsh, unnatural digital sound. The situation has improved with years with better DACs and better designed filters but started reverting back to "bad" with the proliferation of portable devices and "price is king" attitude prevalent with consumers today.

Now, when you design say the DAC output filter - the one coming after DAC chip and before the headphone or line amplifier - you are trying to create a filter with amplitude response that ideally drop to 0 past 20kHz but stay flat until then. For practical reasons you need the filter to be of low order if it's implemented as analog. You can get very nice amplitude responses from some filters - but most filters that do justice to amplitude response have bad phase responses (e.g. Chebyshev filter). When I designed DACs, I opted for gentler filters that keep linear phase (Butterworth? I think) - which could have as much as few dB drop at 20kHz (I usually aim for 0.5dB) rather than using steep and deep filters. Attenuation of D to A process artifacts in the 100+kHz range is still sufficient, but you get the gentle rolloff in the audible range (<20kHz). Most companies want the response as flat as possible because that's one of the most often quoted and measured parameters, so they would opt to keep amplitude flat at the cost of non-linear phase.

What I don't know is how audible is this. I do believe in it, but I'd say you would need to listen critically, with good equipment. Using lossy compression, subpar headphones and no headphone amplifier - not to mention noisy environment - I wouldn't expect this to jump out at anyone.

On the plus side for new 6G, from the graphs in this thread it looks like the amplitude response stays fairly flat when loaded with 32Ohm headphones, unlike the old one. That implies a good headphone amplifier that is able to keep up. I would imagine this would definitely be audible as tighter bass in 6G.

For the record I've been listening to iPod classic 6G since I got it in Japan on vacation (here in Canada they are still not in stores!!), and with only nero-encoded ~172kbit/s AAC on my (also bought during this Japan trip) Audio Technica ATH-A900 and I haven't had complaints. Perhaps I'll plug these headphones into my Flute 2 DAC/amp and compare with 6G using lossless.

Also, Cirrus makes some nice DAC chips such as CS4398 or CS43122 I used. These are high end audiophile chips. They also make some very crappy chips from what I understand. Just like Sennheiser makes some really crappy headphones.
 
Sep 21, 2007 at 9:13 PM Post #204 of 320
Just wondering, (not to hijack the thread) if the new nano uses the same chips as the classic. To me, the new nano sounds a touch brighter (which I like) and it seems to have cleaner bass also. I think the new irivers (clix 2) use a cirrus logic dac and everybody says they sound awesome. That is, if thats what apple is using anyways
wink.gif
 
Sep 21, 2007 at 10:50 PM Post #205 of 320
Thanks aos. Good info.

See ya
Steve
 
Sep 22, 2007 at 4:59 AM Post #207 of 320
i listened to my new 160gb classic today for a good two hours with mostly all music running loss less. i also used the RSA Tomahawk and sr-71 with my sensa's custom iems or shure 420's..

i have not really read the thread but comparing to what i remember my old 60gb video there seems to be much more presence and space with this one, little more depth to the music and great room sonics also (reverb etc). the bass is not larger but seems tighter and more solid.

there is a weird type of itchy sound to it with certain song passages and it is really slow as far as cover art.

not sure i this all can be read for the pro or the con of the classic but i will need more time on her of course. and this was running off memory also.
 
Sep 22, 2007 at 5:59 AM Post #208 of 320
Yeah, I'd urge you to see if you can listen to them both side by side and compare. The Classic does have slightly better bass than the 5G but I think it performs much worse in all other areas (namely excessive/distorted treble, spatial separation, and overall lack of warmth). I wish I was imagining this, because I really wanted to like the 6G, but I've spent enough time with it to justify my decision to return the Classic and hold off until Apple can get these sound issues resolved. (Just my opinion though; I'm not a "seasoned" audiophile like some here. Most of my listening is to 320 AAC encoded music through lineout-->SuperMini-III-->HD650s.)
 

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