[Amblin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markopolo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well boys, I'm done with this. I've put in all kinds of time comparing the 5G/6G using several phones and amps, both headphone and line out, and no amount of squabbling over graphs or measurements or what different audio terms mean is going to change what I hear. I think Apple really screwed the pooch here. This thing's going back and I'm ordering a 5.5G from a 3rd party (I killed the battery on my 5G). The $35 restocking fee bites, though. Anyone know a way around that?

Do not throw away for 5G for lack of a functional battery! Get on eBay, search around for 2 minutes, find yourself a battery replacement kit for about $15 and be done with it.

 

[Hales]

Quote:

dBfs is a measurement where the output is compared to a maximum level. My measurements haven't been calibrated with the max level being 0dB, because that is irrelevant for the properties that need to be measured. I measure relative response, with 1kHz taken as a reference value. From that perspective, dB is a perfectly fine expression for measurement, as it defines the relative ration between two signals. Hence, the measurements can be perfectly (and should be) expressed in dB, and should not in dBfs, because that would be faulty. Audio measurements performed by computer equipment always imply a AD-convertor inbetween. Unless the measurement is pushed beyond the clipping level of the audio equipment, or below the threshold of the measurement equipment, the term dBfs has not really a usefull meaning for those measurements.

My comment about db vs dbfs was NOT pointed at you. It was pointed at the people that tried to dismiss your findings by substituting db for dbfs. It may well be that .1 dbfs on your measurements is the same as .5 dbfs on my measurements is the same as 1db or more in the speaker/headphone/ears world.

To put it another way, if (what I measure as) +0.5 dbfs from my 6g headphone out produces +1db at the speakers then we have a suitable way to interchange db and dbfs.

The problem is that no one has done this yet.

 

[Buckster]

phoned Apple today to return -and they asked why I was returning the item .. I explained the various issues and they were very corteous and pleasant to deal with. I said I was willing to pay the return fee/courier fee - but they said they'd waive it -so 10/10 for their service. I am VERY happy with the 5.5G - so Apple have got my custom in some way - just not with their new product.

I think the new GUI is the way forward for Apple though - that I saw on the 6G was very professional looking and leagues above other manufacturers .. just a pity about the other problems ...

re the sound quality on the 5.5G - no complaints at all - very pleased.

Mark.

 

[lustaficko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckster /img/forum/go_quote.gif re the sound quality on the 5.5G - no complaints at all - very pleased.

Funny... it seems to me that the 5.5g iPod's HO on this forum are usually scoffed at for their lack of lack of sound quality.

 

[Hales]

I picked up a Shure sm63L mic and recorded frequency sweeps played back through a Linn Majik Intergrated amp and Hales Transcendence 1 speakers.

I compared the recorded sweeps from the 4g color and 6g classic. I knew I would not get a flat waveform, but I was just looking for differences in the freq response of the 2 units.

I am using the term db since this is measured sound from speakers.

Early results are showing that the 6g has a 2db boost from 14khz-16khz. There is a 1-1.5db boost from 12khz-14khz. There is a 1db boost from 9500-10khz. There is a .5db boost from 8khz to 9.5khz. There is a .5db boost from 7.2khz - 7.8khz.

I will post more later - have a meeting at 3:30....

 

[mirumu]

Hales, thanks for posting your results and I look forward to your follow up. I am not surprised at the level of difference you are seeing comparing the 4G and 6G, from my own measurements the 4G treble performance is very poor but I don't want to speculate on whether you are seeing significant boosts, drop offs or not. It would be interesting to see results of your Marantz player if it was not too much trouble as it would seem to provide a more ideal reference.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustaficko /img/forum/go_quote.gif Funny... it seems to me that the 5.5g iPod's HO on this forum are usually scoffed at for their lack of lack of sound quality.

Yes, I even remember it being said that the 4G sounded better than the 5.5G other than the bass roll off but I find that hard to believe the more iPods I hear and the more graphs I see.

 

[lustaficko]

I might just get one of these iPod Classics and see what all this talk is about.

 

[d.linquent]

I've been following various forum threads around the 'net about this issue, but in the lust for a bigger harddrive, bought a 6g. How bad could it be?

I spent this afternoon comparing it to my 5.5g, using Atrios, and tracks from the Chesky Ultimate Test Disc. I'll add my small voice to those who have stated the 6g's sound is too bright/sibalant, thin and out of focus. I found myself particularly annoyed and on the verge of a headache trying to get audio images to resolve like they do on the 5.5g.

The interface is really beautiful, and I did not experience any lags or stutters. Just very disappointing audio. I'm planning to hold onto the 6g for the 30 day return period my retailer offers, hoping for a firmware update that makes a difference. Otherwise, it's going back.

Thanks to Marc for drawing widespread attention to this issue. Hope Apple comes up with a fix.

Linq.

 

[Amblin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.linquent /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been following various forum threads around the 'net about this issue, but in the lust for a bigger harddrive, bought a 6g. How bad could it be? I spent this afternoon comparing it to my 5.5g, using Atrios, and tracks from the Chesky Ultimate Test Disc. I'll add my small voice to those who have stated the 6g's sound is too bright/sibalant, thin and out of focus. I found myself particularly annoyed and on the verge of a headache trying to get audio images to resolve like they do on the 5.5g. The interface is really beautiful, and I did not experience any lags or stutters. Just very disappointing audio. I'm planning to hold onto the 6g for the 30 day return period my retailer offers, hoping for a firmware update that makes a difference. Otherwise, it's going back. Thanks to Marc for drawing widespread attention to this issue. Hope Apple comes up with a fix. Linq.

Its too bad, really. Apple dumping a tried and true DAC manufacturer like Wolfson to go for a cheaper Cirrus product. They could have had a real winner with the audiophile crowd.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amblin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its too bad, really. Apple dumping a tried and true DAC manufacturer like Wolfson to go for a cheaper Cirrus product. They could have had a real winner. go for a cheaper product.

That still appears to be speculation. I've not seen any comments from any of the companies involved suggesting it's a Cirrus Logic part and there's no way to know looking at the circuit board.

 

[afobisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amblin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its too bad, really. Apple dumping a tried and true DAC manufacturer like Wolfson to go for a cheaper Cirrus product. They could have had a real winner with the audiophile crowd.

but being a winner in the audiophile crowd means... nothing to them.

 

[mamboman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I even remember it being said that the 4G sounded better than the 5.5G other than the bass roll off but I find that hard to believe the more iPods I hear and the more graphs I see.

I think we are trying to analyze too much into the music here Just get whichever one sounds best for the music you listen to. Everything else is secondary

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamboman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think we are trying to analyze too much into the music here Just get whichever one sounds best for the music you listen to. Everything else is secondary

Oh I'm not posting here for my own benefit, I'm quite happy with the 6G for my on-the-go purposes. I'm just helping to try and get to the bottom of what's going on here with the aim to aid others to get a true picture of the 6G iPod's sound however good or bad it may be. I know what a pain it is to make purchasing decisions when there's next to no accurate information. At least if we have some decent graphs showing it's comparative performance against other players and a good variety of listening impressions it should be a help to those considering buying one of these. For example, it certainly seems at this point that many people will at least consider it to have brighter sound than their current player.

 

[lustaficko]

Mirumu,

Would you consider the iPod Classic to be fatiguing with E500s?

With all the comments about the Classic being bright, and the previous critiques of the 5.5g.. I'm not sure which way to lean.