Howdy all, I generally stay out of this thread because it has a lot of higher end gear I've never heard, and likely will not get to hear (given my location). But I got a PM asking me to come to take a look because of the current kerfuffle and rising tensions.
- I'm no longer a mod - but I can tell you that if I was, some of you would be creating a whole lot of work for them. My advice - never make it personal - simply debate the point.
- Like in any conversation - if all you're doing is hammering home your own point, it leaves very little time to actually listen to others. And sometimes their points are very valid - that's how we learn.
- Often our universal truth ...... isn't ........ and by that I mean universal (and especially in audio). Each of us is very different. Different anatomy, different music we listen to, different hearing acuity, different frequency sensitivities, different volume levels. So trying to apply a universal rule can often be more harm than good. Its an area I fall down a lot with - and had more than my share of figurative bloody noses - when I realise how silly I've been.
Getting back to the conversation. Its interesting (Nic and Crin) that both of you are actually agreeing on the result, but the argument/debate started on how you get there. As it escalated (and probably unintentionally) it got more personal. Time to take a quick step back and look for commonality rather than differences.
If I'm reading correctly you're (in broad strokes) talking about the iSine and the raw frequency response it has - which has an early mid-range rise (6-7 dB peak at 1.5 kHz) and then a subsequent drop at 2 kHz and further at 4 kHz. For anyone interested, the
UM ME1 does similar - but without the second big drop (on my rig at least). The result of that early rise AND subsequent drop is that for me, without EQ, the ME1 sounds dissonant. And I think that might be where you guys are possibly getting off track. In my experience, the early rise tends to bring vocal fundamentals forward (and can sometimes result in either very forward mid-range, or for some shoutiness - it depends on your sensitivity to those frequencies). Its the drop afterward (for harmonics) that completes the issue. Too many fundamentals without harmonics, and the result can be flatness, dissonance, even loss of detail. Its the combination that really drives it (again in my experience). So really - you are both correct in what you were saying - but if you combine the two sides (IMO) you are even closer to what you're hearing.
But there are some other things to consider. If you take a look at the Campfire Jupiter, it displays a similar trait (not so much of a bump, but a similar drop afterward). Now many people like the Jupiter - personally I find it very dissonant and quite unpleasant to listen to without EQ. Others share my view. Yet many differ. When i first heard it, I stated my opinion as a general truth, and got into quite an unproductive debate with Ken Ball about it. After I stopped trying to put my own point across and started listening to others, it dawned on me that my "truth" wasn't the same for everyone. When I stopped being such a jack-ass, I was able to have an excellent conversation with Ken which resulted in him helping me re-calibrate my home measurement rig.
The secret is to celebrate our differences and use them to learn.
Crin / Nic - I really envy both of you - having the opportunity to hear so many top class monitors. Keep the impressions coming. Listen and learn from each other. By looking for commonalities, you'l actually get further, the conversation becomes more informative, and we can all learn.
Hope this helps
BTW - for anyone with the i20 - if you can, try flattening 1.5 kHz a bit, extending the gradual rise to around 3 kHz, and not having too much of a dramatic drop afterward. I'd be interested in your thoughts. It definitely worked miracles for my personal preferences with the UM ME1.