[ljnew]

Using SP1000SS to drive the FXA 11, I need to turn the volume up to 55-60
ZeusXR Volume 25-33
VE8 Volume 25-35
Andromeda Volume 1 - 12

Which iem do you prefer and why?

Does the sp1000 stream tidal or have android software?

 

[EagleWings]

So my question is "what are some IEM suggestions in between the U12 and Zeus XIV that implement ADEL (or similar) technology under $1500?"

Zeus is one of my favorite monitors, but it is enjoyed as a non-ADEL version. You may want to look into the 64Audio ADEL U10. 64Audio still has a few pairs in b-stock for $980. People seem to simply ignore the U10 and I don't know why. It is basically a U12 with 2 less bass drivers. So it is less bassy, less warm and less thick.

 

[subguy812]

Using SP1000SS to drive the FXA 11, I need to turn the volume up to 55-60
ZeusXR Volume 25-33
VE8 Volume 25-35
Andromeda Volume 1 - 12

Very useful post thank you

 

[Tim Le]

Zeus is one of my favorite monitors, but it is enjoyed as a non-ADEL version. You may want to look into the 64Audio ADEL U10. 64Audio still has a few pairs in b-stock for $980. People seem to simply ignore the U10 and I don't know why. It is basically a U12 with 2 less bass drivers. So it is less bassy, less warm and less thick.

That does sound perfect! Any thoughts on the U8 compared to the U10?

 

[fuhransahis]

Which iem do you prefer and why?

Does the sp1000 stream tidal or have android software?

It can stream Tidal but not play it offline. I jumped on one cause I saw it for sale on eBay at a great price and bought instantly... the same day I received it I listed it on the classifieds as I realized offline Tidal didn't work lol. That's my own use case though, sounded great during the hour I spent with it.

 

[EagleWings]

That does sound perfect! Any thoughts on the U8 compared to the U10?

I am sorry, I have not tried the U8. But from what I have read so far, it is slightly bassier (warmer and thicker) and smoother than the U12. Also, I remember reading that U12's soundstage is slightly wider than U8's stage. U10's stage is not only as spacious as U12's stage, but it also appears a touch more open and less congested than U12's stage with respect to the difference in their tunings.

 

[Brooko]

Howdy all, I generally stay out of this thread because it has a lot of higher end gear I've never heard, and likely will not get to hear (given my location). But I got a PM asking me to come to take a look because of the current kerfuffle and rising tensions.

1. I'm no longer a mod - but I can tell you that if I was, some of you would be creating a whole lot of work for them. My advice - never make it personal - simply debate the point.
2. Like in any conversation - if all you're doing is hammering home your own point, it leaves very little time to actually listen to others. And sometimes their points are very valid - that's how we learn.
3. Often our universal truth ...... isn't ........ and by that I mean universal (and especially in audio). Each of us is very different. Different anatomy, different music we listen to, different hearing acuity, different frequency sensitivities, different volume levels. So trying to apply a universal rule can often be more harm than good. Its an area I fall down a lot with - and had more than my share of figurative bloody noses - when I realise how silly I've been.

Getting back to the conversation. Its interesting (Nic and Crin) that both of you are actually agreeing on the result, but the argument/debate started on how you get there. As it escalated (and probably unintentionally) it got more personal. Time to take a quick step back and look for commonality rather than differences.

If I'm reading correctly you're (in broad strokes) talking about the iSine and the raw frequency response it has - which has an early mid-range rise (6-7 dB peak at 1.5 kHz) and then a subsequent drop at 2 kHz and further at 4 kHz. For anyone interested, the UM ME1 does similar - but without the second big drop (on my rig at least). The result of that early rise AND subsequent drop is that for me, without EQ, the ME1 sounds dissonant. And I think that might be where you guys are possibly getting off track. In my experience, the early rise tends to bring vocal fundamentals forward (and can sometimes result in either very forward mid-range, or for some shoutiness - it depends on your sensitivity to those frequencies). Its the drop afterward (for harmonics) that completes the issue. Too many fundamentals without harmonics, and the result can be flatness, dissonance, even loss of detail. Its the combination that really drives it (again in my experience). So really - you are both correct in what you were saying - but if you combine the two sides (IMO) you are even closer to what you're hearing.

But there are some other things to consider. If you take a look at the Campfire Jupiter, it displays a similar trait (not so much of a bump, but a similar drop afterward). Now many people like the Jupiter - personally I find it very dissonant and quite unpleasant to listen to without EQ. Others share my view. Yet many differ. When i first heard it, I stated my opinion as a general truth, and got into quite an unproductive debate with Ken Ball about it. After I stopped trying to put my own point across and started listening to others, it dawned on me that my "truth" wasn't the same for everyone. When I stopped being such a jack-ass, I was able to have an excellent conversation with Ken which resulted in him helping me re-calibrate my home measurement rig.

The secret is to celebrate our differences and use them to learn.

Crin / Nic - I really envy both of you - having the opportunity to hear so many top class monitors. Keep the impressions coming. Listen and learn from each other. By looking for commonalities, you'l actually get further, the conversation becomes more informative, and we can all learn.

Hope this helps

BTW - for anyone with the i20 - if you can, try flattening 1.5 kHz a bit, extending the gradual rise to around 3 kHz, and not having too much of a dramatic drop afterward. I'd be interested in your thoughts. It definitely worked miracles for my personal preferences with the UM ME1.

 

[eldss]

I am sorry, I have not tried the U8. But from what I have read so far, it is bassier (darker, warmer and thicker) and smoother than the U12. Also, I remember reading that U8's soundstage isn't as wide as U12. U10 on the other hand has the same spacious stage like the U12. In fact, because of the difference in tuning, U10's stage appears a touch more open and less congested than U12's stage.

I used to have the U8 and will be able to compare to the A12t in a few weeks. Never heard the U10 or U12, but the soundstage on the U8 was pretty wide compared to most iems. Pretty much anything w/ ADEL or APEX has a wider soundstange and will sound more spacious compared to conventional IEMs, but as EagleWings said, The U8 is smooth, nicely extended, but thick. w/ apex M15 it sounds the best in my opinion.

 

[Gavin C4]

Which iem do you prefer and why?

Does the sp1000 stream tidal or have android software?

FXA11 is different to Zeus VE8 and Andromeda in few ways. Can't comment on Zeus as it has already been a week since I listen to the demo. Demod the VE8 and FXA11 yesterday.

Vocals on the FXA11 is extremely EXTREMELY extremely closeup. Someone is singing beside your ears with no distance at all. Very large body for the vocal. While the instrument and background music is relatively far, very wide stage and good separation. The width of the stage and separation ability is on par with the Andromeda, while VE8 top it off with the best width and depth of the stage. It has a fast treble roll off. With the 14.2 mm dynamic, it has the most bass quantity among all the 3 other IEMS. The sub-bass decay is longer on the FXA11 obviously because of the nature of a dynamic driver. However, the dynamic driver bass is very well done, it does not cover up other instrument and vocals at all. The tuning of the bass, good width of the stage with instrument far back (compared to the position of the extremely close up vocals) and EXTREME close up vocals make it one of a kind. I really can't stress it enough with the extreme close up vocals. It is even closer and larger compared to the Fitear 334. Either love it or hate it. You will either prefer the FXA11 and don't like Zeus VE8 Andromeda or vice versa. It is not for all genera of music. The FXA11 does well with music from One Ok Rock, but not as good for J-pop in general IMO.

 

[tim0chan]

FXA11 is different to Zeus VE8 and Andromeda in few ways. Can't comment on Zeus as it has already been a week since I listen to the demo. Demod the VE8 and FXA11 yesterday.

Vocals on the FXA11 is extremely EXTREMELY extremely closeup. Someone is singing beside your ears with no distance at all. Very large body for the vocal. While the instrument and background music is relatively far, very wide stage and good separation. The width of the stage and separation ability is on par with the Andromeda, while VE8 top it off with the best width and depth of the stage. It has a fast treble roll off. With the 14.2 mm dynamic, it has the most bass quantity among all the 3 other IEMS. The sub-bass decay is longer on the FXA11 obviously because of the nature of a dynamic driver. However, the dynamic driver bass is very well done, it does not cover up other instrument and vocals at all. The tuning of the bass, good width of the stage with instrument far back (compared to the position of the extremely close up vocals) and EXTREME close up vocals make it one of a kind. I really can't stress it enough with the extreme close up vocals. It is even closer and larger compared to the Fitear 334. Either love it or hate it. You will either prefer the FXA11 and don't like Zeus VE8 Andromeda or vice versa. It is not for all genera of music. The FXA11 does well with music from One Ok Rock, but not as good for J-pop in general IMO.

I kinda liked it, but then again i listen to mostly rock.

 

[thatonenoob]

Crinacle, I enjoy a good audio discussion with you or anyone else. But you do have a way of getting under my skin, seemingly on purpose. You didn't start the conversation by saying "actually, I have a different opinion"; you start it by saying " actually, you are wrong", followed by praise and likes from your following. It's the way you tend to bring these matters that gives me the feeling you have something to prove, including the past times. That's why I have never gotten in fights with other people so far, and I've read enough posts that I don't agree with. So you are more than welcome on this thread, as well as to bring a different opinion, just like you always have been. But don't frame the issue like I don't allow any counterpoints, when it's mostly about the way they are brought.

This has always been one of the most easy-going and fun threads; part of the reason being that I have done my best from the beginning to stimulate it that way. Just like I have always encouraged impressions and reviews from people that participate on the thread. I have never presented myself as a sole authority on the thread, if you had read it you would know that. Even in this discussion, I initially kept it civil and stayed on point. But what I find incredibly insulting, is when people tell me that other people are actually capable of using their ears and I should try that. But you, who have never participated in this thread, take one side on the matter and immediately take a moral high ground over me. And now you're telling me I need help and should quit audio, while telling me I am the arrogant one. Real classy.

So I'm personally not allowed to participate in your thread (I'm sorry)? Was there an appropriate jumping in point that would put you in a good light and make you feel particularly comfortable about the subject matter? I felt this was an appropriate time to offer an opinion because there were certain aspects of the discussion I strongly disagreed with. Nevertheless, I'm not telling you to quit audio (whether you do so is of little consequence to me at any rate). I'm sorry to have disturbed your greater conscience, it seems that you've been very disturbed and offended by me, which is fine. I think you're entitled to that opinion -just as I find your outpouring of negativity and authority to be incredibly disagreeable.

 

[EagleWings]

BTW - for anyone with the i20 - if you can, try flattening 1.5 kHz a bit, extending the gradual rise to around 3 kHz, and not having too much of a dramatic drop afterward. I'd be interested in your thoughts. It definitely worked miracles for my personal preferences with the UM ME1.

Paul, I'd like you to give these 2 posts a read before continuing on this post.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ran...views-on-page-1.826876/page-445#post-13899422

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ran...views-on-page-1.826876/page-445#post-13900263

As shown in one of those posts, EQ'ing down the 1.5kHz on the iSine20/i4 with a regular EQ, does more damage than good, as these EQs reduce not only the 1.5kHz but end up reducing the 2-3kHz region further. If one has access to a nice parametric EQ, one can create a narrow band filter to reduce a couple of dBs at the 1.5kHz. But it should not be intended to kill the response at 1.5kHz completely. But rather to compensate for any addition of dB there, when you add 10dB at 3kHz. So on my LPG, I don't even add a negative filter at 1.5kHz, but only add close to 10dB at 3.2kHz to bring the 2-5kHz region back up. The moment I try to create a filter to reduce the response at 1.5kHz, it starts to mess things up.

Even in my i4 review, I never mention the bump at 1.5kHz. But I stress on the dip in the upper midrange because that is what stands out when you listen to these phones. I understand that, what you are trying to say is, it is the combination of both; the bump at 1.5kHz as well as the lack of presence in the upper mid-range, that is causing these phones to sound unnatural. What Nic and later I tried to say to the crowd was, not to worry too much about the bump at 1.5kHz, because it is harmless, when compared to the lack of presence at 2-6kHz. And so adding enough dBs at the 2-6kHz using EQ will pretty much fix the issue on the iSine 20 or i4.

Crinacle has a good knowledge on measurements. But not everyone who joined the debate in his favor seems to. This member called Silverears starts to flash Crin's measurements of iSine 20 and i4 and asks Nic to acknowledge the bump at 1.5kHz and tells him to hear the bump with his ears. From the beginning, no one denied the bump at 1.5khz. But people like Silverears fail to see the level of deviation in the 2-6kHz region from a headphone target curve in those measurements. Moreover he doesn't seem to have an understanding of how a bump or trough at a certian region would impact the sound. It's as if, he heard the iSine 20 one day, did not like it, and then saw Crin's measurement of iSine 20 and, pinned the blame on the 1.5kHz bump. Because the bump there always stands out more than the lack of response at the 2.6kHz region.

 

[ChrisSC]

Can anyone provide a link to a good "how to read graphs for dummies" primer? I've never really had the attention span to learn, but as far down the rabbit hole I am in this silly hobby, its probably about time.

I can't wait to be able talk about 100,000 kilamegatron spikes, and whatnot!

 

[EagleWings]

Can anyone provide a link to a good "how to read graphs for dummies" primer? I've never really had the attention span to learn, but as far down the rabbit hole I am in this silly hobby, its probably about time.

I can't wait to be able talk about 100,000 kilamegatron spikes, and whatnot!

This is a good place to start: https://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements-explained

 

[ljnew]

FXA11 is different to Zeus VE8 and Andromeda in few ways. Can't comment on Zeus as it has already been a week since I listen to the demo. Demod the VE8 and FXA11 yesterday.

Vocals on the FXA11 is extremely EXTREMELY extremely closeup. Someone is singing beside your ears with no distance at all. Very large body for the vocal. While the instrument and background music is relatively far, very wide stage and good separation. The width of the stage and separation ability is on par with the Andromeda, while VE8 top it off with the best width and depth of the stage. It has a fast treble roll off. With the 14.2 mm dynamic, it has the most bass quantity among all the 3 other IEMS. The sub-bass decay is longer on the FXA11 obviously because of the nature of a dynamic driver. However, the dynamic driver bass is very well done, it does not cover up other instrument and vocals at all. The tuning of the bass, good width of the stage with instrument far back (compared to the position of the extremely close up vocals) and EXTREME close up vocals make it one of a kind. I really can't stress it enough with the extreme close up vocals. It is even closer and larger compared to the Fitear 334. Either love it or hate it. You will either prefer the FXA11 and don't like Zeus VE8 Andromeda or vice versa. It is not for all genera of music. The FXA11 does well with music from One Ok Rock, but not as good for J-pop in general IMO.

Thanks does the sp1000 stream tidal?