[Matty Allen]

It will work but I don't think you'll get the extra power. Don't the HD800S come with a balanced cable?

Yes it does but it's end is 3 pin and the cable is too long for walking around with a bluetooth adapter.

 

[Matty Allen]

It will work but I don't think you'll get the extra power. Don't the HD800S come with a balanced cable?

Yes but its end is 3 pin and its too long for walking around with a bluetooth adapter.

It will SHORT CIRCUIT the ES100's balanced output.

@Matty Allen - Never plug a singled-ended headphone to the balanced output of any source using some trash adapter. If you want to use balanced output, you need to make sure the whole headphone is wired in balanced configuration. There is NO magic adopter that magically turn a single-ended headphone into balanced. All that thing does is short circuiting the ES100 - at best it increases the noise a bit or makes it sounds a little funny, at worst something inside ES100 can get burnt.

You can only turn a balanced wired headphone into single-ended using adapter, but not the other way around.

The HD800s comes with 2 cables, a stereo and a balanced cable, so the headphone itself is not single ended. Its just the stereo cable that is.
The stock balanced cable is too long and 3 pin ended so no good for walking around with bluetooth es100. I have a custom 3.5mm stereo 1.5 meter cable that i can buy a balanced adapter for... or buy a new 1.5 meter dedicated balanced cable...

 

[Matty Allen]

It will SHORT CIRCUIT the ES100's balanced output.

@Matty Allen - Never plug a singled-ended headphone to the balanced output of any source using some trash adapter. If you want to use balanced output, you need to make sure the whole headphone is wired in balanced configuration. There is NO magic adopter that magically turn a single-ended headphone into balanced. All that thing does is short circuiting the ES100 - at best it increases the noise a bit or makes it sounds a little funny, at worst something inside ES100 can get burnt.

You can only turn a balanced wired headphone into single-ended using adapter, but not the other way around.

OK... i think its clear.

ES100 3.5mm stereo output with an adapter to a balanced cable is ok if the headphones are ok with a balanced cable.

BUT

ES100 2.5mm balanced output with an adapter to a standard stereo cable is not.

 

[pstickne]

Bother? I just want to check out MQA for my self. That's an opinion piece you linked. I've read plenty of those but my ears remain unconvinced. If hi-res wasn't a thing, this site probably wouldn't exist and we'd all still be listening to our iPods.

“Hi-Res” is a (I believe copyrighted) label to sell. There is a LOT of sold snake oil in audio-land.

Humans can not hear over all the frequencies that can be measured with a 44/48kHz sample rate. Any artifacts “heard” are introduced by circuitry and processing (which DOES exist), not the ability to carry human-relevant information.

There is argument for 24-bit vs 16-bit; less so for 32-bit PCM value ranges for target audience audio.

Similar oil for balanced vs SE on headphone cables, excepting on case of power output .. and I digress.

So, check out whatever “Hi-Res” - and understand that it is NOT A CONTROLLED EXPERIMENT. So if ‘something changes’ it was an implementation change or psychological change (good for you if you like it), not the capacity for relevant information.

Note that most DAPs/DACs have their own “signature”, even before EQ, further highlighting that observed change is NOT purely a function of the input format / resolution. Again, this comes down to a specific implementation and not “Hi-Res”.

 

[p50kombi]

OK... i think its clear.

ES100 3.5mm stereo output with an adapter to a balanced cable is ok if the headphones are ok with a balanced cable.

BUT

ES100 2.5mm balanced output with an adapter to a standard stereo cable is not.

I don't really know how clear the warning on the app needs to be.

You can not use the 2.5 mm output on the radsone with an adapter to use a 3.5 non balanced cable.

 

[ClieOS]

The HD800s comes with 2 cables, a stereo and a balanced cable, so the headphone itself is not single ended..

What determines a headphone as balanced or single-ended is how it is wired (including internal wiring up to the driver). It has nothing to do with the transducer (which works either ways just fine). Thus using a single-ended cable makes the whole headphone a single-ended headphone, while using a balanced cable makes the whole headphone balanced - in your case, the HD800s internal wiring (inside the headphone cups) are already balanced wired, the stock single-ended cable acts as an overly long adapter cable that turns the whole headphone into a single-ended setup.

OK... i think its clear.

Exactly.

Your best bet is a new, shorter balanced cable for the HD800s

 

[Matty Allen]

I don't really know how clear the warning on the app needs to be.

You can not use the 2.5 mm output on the radsone with an adapter to use a 3.5 non balanced cable.

Ha... yes... fair enough... in my defense I wont get hold of my ES100 until August so haven't tried the app yet... though also... to be honest... I am a little bit stupid.

All clear and happy now. Thank you.

 

[Matty Allen]

What determines a headphone as balanced or single-ended is how it is wired (including internal wiring up to the driver). It has nothing to do with the transducer (which works either ways just fine). Thus using a single-ended cable makes the whole headphone a single-ended headphone, while using a balanced cable makes the whole headphone balanced - in your case, the HD800s internal wiring (inside the headphone cups) are already balanced wired, the stock single-ended cable acts as an overly long adapter cable that turns the whole headphone into a single-ended setup.



Exactly.

Your best bet is a new, shorter balanced cable for the HD800s

Got it.
Thanks for the clear simple explanation.

 

[davehutch]

If useing a 2.5mm balanced male to 3.5mm stereo adapter and the ES100 output in 2 x Voltage mode to HD800S headphones will we still gain a 10% volume over using the ES100 3.5mm socket directly? Or does the balanced cable need to run all the way from ES100 to the headphone ears?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FF2R13Z/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A282CIVY4X0P53&psc=1

Baoblaze 2.5mm Plugs Balanced Male to 3.5mm Stereo Female Audios Connection Adapter Cable

Sorry I'm still unsure.
My line up would be:
ES100 2.5 ballanced output in 2 x voltage mode.
2.5mm balanced male to 3.5mm stereo female adapter.
3.5mm stereo male cable to HD800s

So it is Balanced to Stereo... not the other way round.
2 questions:
1 - Will this work?
2 - Will it still give the 10% increase in volume that balanced output in 2 x voltage mode can with a dedicated 2.5mm balanced cable?

Thanks.

Dedicated custom 2.5mm balanced cable cost $150
2.5mm Balanced to 3.5mm Stereo adapter cost $10

do not do this. You may damage the ES100.
If you read the detail at the bottom of the output details screen it says:

 

[max232]

“Hi-Res” is a (I believe copyrighted) label to sell. There is a LOT of sold snake oil in audio-land.

Humans can not hear over all the frequencies that can be measured with a 44/48kHz sample rate. Any artifacts “heard” are introduced by circuitry and processing (which DOES exist), not the ability to carry human-relevant information.

There is argument for 24-bit vs 16-bit; less so for 32-bit PCM value ranges for target audience audio.

Similar oil for balanced vs SE on headphone cables, excepting on case of power output .. and I digress.

So, check out whatever “Hi-Res” - and understand that it is NOT A CONTROLLED EXPERIMENT. So if ‘something changes’ it was an implementation change or psychological change (good for you if you like it), not the capacity for relevant information.

Note that most DAPs/DACs have their own “signature”, even before EQ, further highlighting that observed change is NOT purely a function of the input format / resolution. Again, this comes down to a specific implementation and not “Hi-Res”.

I must have dog ears. “Hi-Res” sounds a lot better to me than Mp3. I can tell the difference right off. Maybe it's you equipment?

 

[peter123]

Balanced headphone to singled-ended source using an adapter is fine. Single-ended headphone to balanced source with an adapter is NOT - that's what @Matty Allen is asking for.

Whether the latter will cause permanent damage depends on whethe the balanced output stage has short circuit protection or not. If not, then the chance of something get burnt will increase even if no ill effect is detected at first.

You're right, I mixed up. Got up 4 o'clock this morning to catch a plane, let's pretend that explains why

 

[Mouseman]

I swear, I don't know why they sell those adapters, other than to trick people who don't know better. You have to wonder how many clueless folks have fried their expensive gear with an adapter that cost a few bucks.

 

[dw1narso]

I must have dog ears. “Hi-Res” sounds a lot better to me than Mp3. I can tell the difference right off. Maybe it's you equipment?

Not trying to doubt your hearing capability.. Because I myself when I was young up until my teen age I used to be able to hear very high frequency coming from my tube television at home, which I could confirm by turning the TV on/off, and nobody at home could hear it.

Do you mind to test this way... Find a high res recording that you like.. Say in 24 bits/ 96 or 192Khz PCM in FLAC. Then covert/ downsample it into 16 bits/48Khz PCM FLAC (why 48 and not 44.1KHz? Because a lot of DAC native on multiplicity of 48KHz sampling rate). Then convert it to MP3 using Lame to 320 fixed bit rate or 256K VBR.

EDIT: sorry, apparently LAME can only convert from 44.1KHz sampling rate. Maybe use FinalCD to convert the original hires file to 16bit/44.1KHz before going to MP3.

Now you will have the same music, with the same mastering, but in three different formats. Try listen to them...

 

[pstickne]

I must have dog ears. “Hi-Res” sounds a lot better to me than Mp3. I can tell the difference right off. Maybe it's you equipment?

Post was about “Low-Res” 44/48kHz PCM and not the regenerated output of a MEDIOCRE LOSSY ENCODING..

Encoding into a lossy format (in respect to the output) is unrelated to “Hi-Res” as the one can decode a lossy format into a “Hi-Res” channel - having already lost information!

Here is a page to quickly check upper frequency ranges. Keep in mind a 48kHz PCM channel can encode a 24kHz source wave. Newborn babies can only hear to ‘about’ 20kHz hearing, which continually decreases with age.

 

[klaberte]

So it seems like my ES100 is having some weird sparkly/clicky noise occasionally being triggered by heavier bass but also some highs, like a wrapper being crinkled for a split second (always happens same moments on certain tracks) that I'm sure wasn't there before. I've tried different earphones/headphones as well as changing source (used both phone and laptop) and the sound is still there.

Has anyone else had similar issues and if so was it just a simple firmware update to fix or a hardware thing where I'm stuck trying to get a return or just writing the thing off?

I've only had the ES100 since February 2019 and issues started mid June, so it's alarming if it's useless already, I get that it is quite cheap for what it offers and probably not as built to last but a few months is a bit of a joke. Had moved to ES100 & bluetooth since my old fiio e18 got some problem with the highs after so much use and I figure I'd try some alternatives since I was waiting for newer fiio offerings (tempted to just go looking for another e18 now)

edit: Damn warranty is only 30 days it seems, glad I didn't really invest much here.

Sorry, when you say you change sources, have you tried a direct wired connection, i.e. headphones connected directly to laptop with no bluetooth in the loop? When you are using bluetooth, have you tried changing the codec in the developer settings of an Android phone?