RAAL 1995 Immanis

[chrisyak]

Maybe a slightly unusual approach there Chris. Immanis only needs around 3w I think Alex said previously. With Envy + Immanis most users are already dropping DAC output, I have mine just over 1vrms into Envy (around -14dB on M21) and when straight into XA30 it's just over half that (-36db) The XA is around 7.5w per channel at 32ohm but has an input gain of 26dB which will blow your socks off compared to Envy using the DAC as pre.

With the 590, I'm only assuming you had volume at 12 and started on lowest gain working up to what was a reasonable volume around 12 on the pot? (think 590 is the same as US5+ and it'll have gain dip switches on the back?)

What gain settings did you use with the 465?

Don't get me wrong. Most of the users here have above average dacs and amplifiers. You don't get to Immanis level to by being happy with a crappy chain. The amanus can be driven by some pretty weak equipment. However, that does not mean that in order to get the very best out of these headphones that you should not try using better equipment. Some equipment is underpowered but delivers really great results. It's all about how it's put together.

I have a really great example of that. The T+A HA 200 which I would call one of the top five solid state amplifiers in the world. It has a built-in DAC and it is just amazing. It drives almost all headphones perfectly. However, I found out that it does not drive low impedance headphones at higher volumes very well. Does that make it a poor product.No. does it mean you cannot play it loud, no. What it does mean is that for a very small percentage of users that like to play their low impedance headphones at borderline deafening sounds the amplifier /DAC is not able to keep up with others because of this flaw in the system. 99.9% of listeners may not even experience this issue. Some people may not even call it an issue. However, there is that 0.01% will experience this issue and will find it unacceptable. They will need to find a different pieces of components in order to drive low impedance headphones at the levels they like. I also believe that components that are able to drive more ampage and voltage to the headphones are able to get more out of headphones then underpowered devices.

For me it is an issue and it has sent me on a mission find chain that is not impacted by this issue.

Call me picky. Call me crazy but I like to listen to my music very loud and I like to have a lot of power behind.

The gain settings are going to help but anything past medium is going to introduce levels of distortion which I am not fond of. I can of course increase the gain settings and blow the headphones or my eardrums but that doesn't do anything for me. I want to be able to listen to the music at eardrum shattering levels and sound as crystal clear at reference sound.

 

[nfandi]

Don't get me wrong. Most of the users here have above average dacs and amplifiers. You don't get to Immanis level to by being happy with a crappy chain. The amanus can be driven by some pretty weak equipment. However, that does not mean that in order to get the very best out of these headphones that you should not try using better equipment. Some equipment is underpowered but delivers really great results. It's all about how it's put together.

I have a really great example of that. The T+A HA 200 which I would call one of the top five solid state amplifiers in the world. It has a built-in DAC and it is just amazing. It drives almost all headphones perfectly. However, I found out that it does not drive low impedance headphones at higher volumes very well. Does that make it a poor product.No. does it mean you cannot play it loud, no. What it does mean is that for a very small percentage of users that like to play their low impedance headphones at borderline deafening sounds the amplifier /DAC is not able to keep up with others because of this flaw in the system. 99.9% of listeners may not even experience this issue. Some people may not even call it an issue. However, there is that 0.01% will experience this issue and will find it unacceptable. They will need to find a different pieces of components in order to drive low impedance headphones at the levels they like. I also believe that components that are able to drive more ampage and voltage to the headphones are able to get more out of headphones then underpowered devices.

For me it is an issue and it has sent me on a mission find chain that is not impacted by this issue.

Call me picky. Call me crazy but I like to listen to my music very loud and I like to have a lot of power behind.

The gain settings are going to help but anything past medium is going to introduce levels of distortion which I am not fond of. I can of course increase the gain settings and blow the headphones or my eardrums but that doesn't do anything for me. I want to be able to listen to the music at eardrum shattering levels and sound as crystal clear at reference sound.

Why do you want to shatter your eardrums? What will you do for the rest of your life once your hearing is gone?

 

[Doug2507]

Don't get me wrong. Most of the users here have above average dacs and amplifiers. You don't get to Immanis level to by being happy with a crappy chain. The amanus can be driven by some pretty weak equipment. However, that does not mean that in order to get the very best out of these headphones that you should not try using better equipment. Some equipment is underpowered but delivers really great results. It's all about how it's put together.

I have a really great example of that. The T+A HA 200 which I would call one of the top five solid state amplifiers in the world. It has a built-in DAC and it is just amazing. It drives almost all headphones perfectly. However, I found out that it does not drive low impedance headphones at higher volumes very well. Does that make it a poor product.No. does it mean you cannot play it loud, no. What it does mean is that for a very small percentage of users that like to play their low impedance headphones at borderline deafening sounds the amplifier /DAC is not able to keep up with others because of this flaw in the system. 99.9% of listeners may not even experience this issue. Some people may not even call it an issue. However, there is that 0.01% will experience this issue and will find it unacceptable. They will need to find a different pieces of components in order to drive low impedance headphones at the levels they like. I also believe that components that are able to drive more ampage and voltage to the headphones are able to get more out of headphones then underpowered devices.

For me it is an issue and it has sent me on a mission find chain that is not impacted by this issue.

Call me picky. Call me crazy but I like to listen to my music very loud and I like to have a lot of power behind.

The gain settings are going to help but anything past medium is going to introduce levels of distortion which I am not fond of. I can of course increase the gain settings and blow the headphones or my eardrums but that doesn't do anything for me. I want to be able to listen to the music at eardrum shattering levels and sound as crystal clear at reference sound.

I get that but having source, eg DAC/streamer, with very high output voltage is the part I don't quite follow the reasoning for.

For example, with the 590, providing what you're feeding it with doesn't have some crazy output impedance & as long as it provides reasonable output voltage, I don't think there should be much in the way of distortion on the end product (Immanis) providing both gain and volume are at suitable levels.

From memory when I had 394ii it had both input and output selectable gain which I would assume the 465 also has. I think v590 would on the input (like US5+). AHB2 is another good example of amp with selectable input gain albeit it's quite a unique feature in the land of power amps. The point with these is the preference for changing gain lies on the amplifier side rather than the source, which also in some cases removes the need for a pre amp when you have some form of volume control in the source. At a guess I'd say this probably benefits digital volume control more as it would minimise the need for a lot of attenuation. (sorry, thinking out loud in this part)

Just trying to get a better understanding for myself and why you believe much higher output voltage from source would solve those issues you've found. I've got a basic understanding but maybe wrong myself and it's a topic that interests me as I'll be running a DAC with ability to attenuate, a tube HP amp as pre (adjustable output gain / impedance) and a SS amp with high input gain. I.E, some balancing / juggling to be done by myself as well.

 

[normie610]

I get that but having source, eg DAC/streamer, with very high output voltage is the part I don't quite follow the reasoning for.

For example, with the 590, providing what you're feeding it with doesn't have some crazy output impedance, as long as it provides reasonable output voltage, I don't think there should be much in the way of distortion on the end product (Immanis) providing both gain and volume are at suitable levels.

Just trying to get a better understanding for myself and why you believe much higher output voltage from source would solve those issues you've found. I've got a basic understanding but maybe wrong myself and it's a topic that interests me as I'll be running a DAC with ability to attenuate, a tube HP amp as pre (adjustable output gain / impedance) and a SS amp with high input gain. I.E, some balancing / juggling to be done by myself as well.

I'd also love to learn more about this. All this while, I thought if the output from the DAC is too hot/powerful, it can cause some clipping to the sound? That's why I read here quite a few times that some people actually have to adjust the output of their DAC if Vrms value is too high to avoid clipping/distortion. Or perhaps my understanding isn't correct?

 

[jonchard]

I get that but having source, eg DAC/streamer, with very high output voltage is the part I don't quite follow the reasoning for.

For example, with the 590, providing what you're feeding it with doesn't have some crazy output impedance, as long as it provides reasonable output voltage, I don't think there should be much in the way of distortion on the end product (Immanis) providing both gain and volume are at suitable levels.

Just trying to get a better understanding for myself and why you believe much higher output voltage from source would solve those issues you've found. I've got a basic understanding but maybe wrong myself and it's a topic that interests me as I'll be running a DAC with ability to attenuate, a tube HP amp as pre (adjustable output gain / impedance) and a SS amp with high input gain. I.E, some balancing / juggling to be done by myself as well.

Some older amps especially, will not take an input voltage of more than 2V. Any more and it causes distortion. Amps of the last 5 years (a broad generalisation) tend to be happy taking up to 5v. I wasnt aware of much taking beyond that, so good to find out otherwise. It would seems DACs got somewhat hotter and Amps got somewhat more accepting. WIn win !

 

[Doug2507]

I'd also love to learn more about this. All this while, I thought if the output from the DAC is too hot/powerful, it can cause some clipping to the sound? That's why I read here quite a few times that some people actually have to adjust the output of their DAC if Vrms value is too high to avoid clipping/distortion. Or perhaps my understanding isn't correct?

From what I can gather, yes, somewhat, but maybe more on the output impedance side of life relative to amp input impedance? (which on a power amp is usually quite high, eg, 100kohm bal and largely negates output from source regarding clipping)

I'll let someone that knows way better than I chip in for this one as its something I've yet to get a good understanding of myself as well. (always open to being educated!)

@Aleksandar R.

 

[jonchard]

Don't get me wrong. Most of the users here have above average dacs and amplifiers. You don't get to Immanis level to by being happy with a crappy chain. The amanus can be driven by some pretty weak equipment. However, that does not mean that in order to get the very best out of these headphones that you should not try using better equipment. Some equipment is underpowered but delivers really great results. It's all about how it's put together.

I have a really great example of that. The T+A HA 200 which I would call one of the top five solid state amplifiers in the world. It has a built-in DAC and it is just amazing. It drives almost all headphones perfectly. However, I found out that it does not drive low impedance headphones at higher volumes very well. Does that make it a poor product.No. does it mean you cannot play it loud, no. What it does mean is that for a very small percentage of users that like to play their low impedance headphones at borderline deafening sounds the amplifier /DAC is not able to keep up with others because of this flaw in the system. 99.9% of listeners may not even experience this issue. Some people may not even call it an issue. However, there is that 0.01% will experience this issue and will find it unacceptable. They will need to find a different pieces of components in order to drive low impedance headphones at the levels they like. I also believe that components that are able to drive more ampage and voltage to the headphones are able to get more out of headphones then underpowered devices.

For me it is an issue and it has sent me on a mission find chain that is not impacted by this issue.

Call me picky. Call me crazy but I like to listen to my music very loud and I like to have a lot of power behind.

The gain settings are going to help but anything past medium is going to introduce levels of distortion which I am not fond of. I can of course increase the gain settings and blow the headphones or my eardrums but that doesn't do anything for me. I want to be able to listen to the music at eardrum shattering levels and sound as crystal clear at reference sound.

Consider the Soul - It has power beyond most. Recent reivews are pointing at this amp as being a bargain under £10k, with solid state speed and endless power. I have never heard Immanis distort until i broke a pair. I have heard Soul push LCD4 to the edge with distortion only from driver limits on a song that was quite simply ungodly. It was distortion free otherwise and thats with a 5V input from May. I came from an HA300II where i could hear the tubes overdriving with headphones like Susvara, i know what you are alluding to. But this is an amp without limits. The one big downside is the crap "lumpy" volume pot. And for those of use that play into silly volumes, the "lumps" are in just the wrong place. For example, one notch to 14:00 its 4db quieter than the next notch. Thats a lot of volume on a single step. Its enough to put Immanis close to uncomfortable, so i can only use 14:00 on those quieter songs. It might be the one good reason to leave the volume close to max and use a preamp / HQPlayer / DAC volume control for finer adjustments. Aside from that, its insanely powerful and distortion free. You need to get away from the JJ tubes as they are junk, its bliss from that point. Its 14w on XLR.

If you havent, Audition one in your own home. Koji's review with a pinch of salt was interesting (His comments about Modhouse Tungsten should catch your attention, and the review of Envy with Sandu alludes to Soul being the most dynamic headphone amp he has ever heard (The man who sold two Trafomatic Primavera's. They are both "Sales P3nis' " no doubt, but im hugely enamoured with this amp and i think its drives Immanis well - im not the only one.

 

[tdx]

Consider the Soul - It has power beyond most. Recent reivews are pointing at this amp as being a bargain under £10k, with solid state speed and endless power. I have never heard Immanis distort until i broke a pair. I have heard Soul push LCD4 to the edge with distortion only from driver limits on a song that was quite simply ungodly. It was distortion free otherwise and thats with a 5V input from May. I came from an HA300II where i could hear the tubes overdriving with headphones like Susvara, i know what you are alluding to. But this is an amp without limits. The one big downside is the crap "lumpy" volume pot. And for those of use that play into silly volumes, the "lumps" are in just the wrong place. For example, one notch to 14:00 its 4db quieter than the next notch. Thats a lot of volume on a single step. Its enough to put Immanis close to uncomfortable, so i can only use 14:00 on those quieter songs. It might be the one good reason to leave the volume close to max and use a preamp / HQPlayer / DAC volume control for finer adjustments. Aside from that, its insanely powerful and distortion free. You need to get away from the JJ tubes as they are junk, its bliss from that point. Its 14w on XLR.

If you havent, Audition one in your own home. Koji's review with a pinch of salt was interesting (His comments about Modhouse Tungsten should catch your attention, and the review of Envy with Sandu alludes to Soul being the most dynamic headphone amp he has ever heard (The man who sold two Trafomatic Primavera's. They are both "Sales P3nis' " no doubt, but im hugely enamoured with this amp and i think its drives Immanis well - im not the only one.

Fully concur with the praise for the Soul, and also a quick (shameless) plug to say that since I'm moving to SS, I actually have one for sale right now for a ridiculously low price if someone wants to try it at home without a big financial commitment. Ok I'll see myself out

 

[jonchard]

Fully concur with the praise for the Soul, and also a quick (shameless) plug to say that since I'm moving to SS, I actually have one for sale right now for a ridiculously low price if someone wants to try it at home without a big financial commitment. Ok I'll see myself out

Good luck with your sale, i cant believe you sold AIC for it, but one hears what one hears I cant believe the Soul hasnt sold. I paid an awful lot more for mine.

 

[chrisyak]

While I've managed to make many headphones clip/distort on the Violectric V590 V2 and T+A HA 200 (both with built-in DACs), the Immanis presented some unique challenges.

The T+A HA 200, despite its quality, has a low impedance issue and no additional gain adjustment options. When trying to push the Immanis to extremely high volumes, they seemed unfazed – likely due to insufficient voltage/amperage output. The HA 200's known low impedance issue results in approximately 10dB lower output, which was disappointing for someone like me who enjoys testing volume limits. Don't get me wrong, the T+A HA 200 is one of the finest solid-state amplifiers I have ever tested, but it's up against the best headphones in the world. I am very critical and like to push things to the limits and beyond. I do testing and reviews in the consumer technology industry and work in the audio industry on projects as well. I am just sharing my findings with you guys. I'm not an expert in DACs, nor will I ever be... ha ha.

I decided to bring in the heavyweight: the MassKobo 465, as I knew this was the kind of power I needed. The difference in power compared to the HA 200 and V590 V2 was immediately noticeable. The sound is significantly fuller, and you need to be careful with the gain settings – it's that powerful!

However, this upgrade introduced a new challenge. Unlike my previous amplifiers with built-in DACs, the MassKobo 465 required a separate DAC. My only available option was the A6 streamer with its built-in DAC, which has proven disappointing. Its low decibel output rating is evident in the performance. The sound lacks cleanliness, especially at higher volumes, where it introduces noticeable noise. While it doesn't add much coloration (nor should it), you can tell it's struggling to keep up with the amplifier's capabilities.

I am now on a mission to find a DAC that I can push to the limits with the MassKobo 465 and the Raal Immanis. That's how my search for a new DAC got started. As I stated earlier, I am leaning towards the Lumin X1 now for a DAC/streamer that is very well-built and engineeres. It doesn't introduce much coloration/filtering that could alter the sound of the Immanis or any other headphone but will help bring out possibly more clarity and detail while maintaining neutral and natural sound. However DAC's can be hit or miss. There are a lot of good dax out there, but sometimes it really depends on your chain and what you're looking for. I have certain requirements that make my shopping a little bit more difficult than just the best dac out there.

 

[tdx]

Good luck with your sale, i cant believe you sold AIC for it, but one hears what one hears I cant believe the Soul hasnt sold. I paid an awful lot more for mine.

Thanks hopefully it will find a good home soon! AIC was awesome but the Soul has some areas that are actually better so I felt it was a smarter buy considering the price difference. But now I'm solid state all the way (SAEQ Armageddon) so the Soul is going too.

 

[jonchard]

While I've managed to make many headphones clip/distort on the Violectric V590 V2 and T+A HA 200 (both with built-in DACs), the Immanis presented some unique challenges.

The T+A HA 200, despite its quality, has a low impedance issue and no additional gain adjustment options. When trying to push the Immanis to extremely high volumes, they seemed unfazed – likely due to insufficient voltage/amperage output. The HA 200's known low impedance issue results in approximately 10dB lower output, which was disappointing for someone like me who enjoys testing volume limits. Don't get me wrong, the T+A HA 200 is one of the finest solid-state amplifiers I have ever tested, but it's up against the best headphones in the world. I am very critical and like to push things to the limits and beyond. I do testing and reviews in the consumer technology industry and work in the audio industry on projects as well. I am just sharing my findings with you guys. I'm not an expert in DACs, nor will I ever be... ha ha.

I decided to bring in the heavyweight: the MassKobo 465, as I knew this was the kind of power I needed. The difference in power compared to the HA 200 and V590 V2 was immediately noticeable. The sound is significantly fuller, and you need to be careful with the gain settings – it's that powerful!

However, this upgrade introduced a new challenge. Unlike my previous amplifiers with built-in DACs, the MassKobo 465 required a separate DAC. My only available option was the A6 streamer with its built-in DAC, which has proven disappointing. Its low decibel output rating is evident in the performance. The sound lacks cleanliness, especially at higher volumes, where it introduces noticeable noise. While it doesn't add much coloration (nor should it), you can tell it's struggling to keep up with the amplifier's capabilities.

I am now on a mission to find a DAC that I can push to the limits with the MassKobo 465 and the Raal Immanis. That's how my search for a new DAC got started. As I stated earlier, I am leaning towards the Lumin X1 now for a DAC/streamer that is very well-built and engineeres. It doesn't introduce much coloration/filtering that could alter the sound of the Immanis or any other headphone but will help bring out possibly more clarity and detail while maintaining neutral and natural sound. However DAC's can be hit or miss. There are a lot of good dax out there, but sometimes it really depends on your chain and what you're looking for. I have certain requirements that make my shopping a little bit more difficult than just the best dac out there.

Mass Kobo is next level. I can only imagine the fun you are having with that. I should have read your signature LOLOLOLOLOL!

 

[Aetherhole]

While I've managed to make many headphones clip/distort on the Violectric V590 V2 and T+A HA 200 (both with built-in DACs), the Immanis presented some unique challenges.

The T+A HA 200, despite its quality, has a low impedance issue and no additional gain adjustment options. When trying to push the Immanis to extremely high volumes, they seemed unfazed – likely due to insufficient voltage/amperage output. The HA 200's known low impedance issue results in approximately 10dB lower output, which was disappointing for someone like me who enjoys testing volume limits. Don't get me wrong, the T+A HA 200 is one of the finest solid-state amplifiers I have ever tested, but it's up against the best headphones in the world. I am very critical and like to push things to the limits and beyond. I do testing and reviews in the consumer technology industry and work in the audio industry on projects as well. I am just sharing my findings with you guys. I'm not an expert in DACs, nor will I ever be... ha ha.

I decided to bring in the heavyweight: the MassKobo 465, as I knew this was the kind of power I needed. The difference in power compared to the HA 200 and V590 V2 was immediately noticeable. The sound is significantly fuller, and you need to be careful with the gain settings – it's that powerful!

However, this upgrade introduced a new challenge. Unlike my previous amplifiers with built-in DACs, the MassKobo 465 required a separate DAC. My only available option was the A6 streamer with its built-in DAC, which has proven disappointing. Its low decibel output rating is evident in the performance. The sound lacks cleanliness, especially at higher volumes, where it introduces noticeable noise. While it doesn't add much coloration (nor should it), you can tell it's struggling to keep up with the amplifier's capabilities.

I am now on a mission to find a DAC that I can push to the limits with the MassKobo 465 and the Raal Immanis. That's how my search for a new DAC got started. As I stated earlier, I am leaning towards the Lumin X1 now for a DAC/streamer that is very well-built and engineeres. It doesn't introduce much coloration/filtering that could alter the sound of the Immanis or any other headphone but will help bring out possibly more clarity and detail while maintaining neutral and natural sound. However DAC's can be hit or miss. There are a lot of good dax out there, but sometimes it really depends on your chain and what you're looking for. I have certain requirements that make my shopping a little bit more difficult than just the best dac out there.

If I remember correctly, you are from the inland empire, maybe riverside? If you make your way out my way, to Orange, you can check out the Mola Mola. You can also check out the Cayin Soul while you’re here, too!

 

[jonchard]

If I remember correctly, you are from the inland empire, maybe riverside? If you make your way out my way, to Orange, you can check out the Mola Mola. You can also check out the Cayin Soul while you’re here, too!

Wow what an offer. Can i come? Im coming from the UK so would appreciate a nibble too please

 

[Aetherhole]

Wow what an offer. Can i come? Im coming from the UK so would appreciate a nibble too please

Jon, if you ever find yourself in Southern California, you are absolutely welcome to!!