RAAL 1995 Immanis

[jonchard]

@Exekuhtor
I owe an apology for that. It wasnt aimed at only you! I wrote all that, and thought better about posting it. I left it on the sidelines .... then when i went to answer another query, i accidentally posted it all LOL - Sorry. The whole conversation about whether a DAC is suitable or not is a question of personal requirement. I also appreciate that only some can afford to maximise every single part of their chain and in order to truly maximise what you are saying is perfectly valid. I just dont like the way some are coming across and casting dispersions as they are.

If you'd be kind enough, after running my gob, You cant have more and more and more of something good. There must be a downside? Leto Dal talks about the additional dynamics from Tambaqui then additional dynamics from AIC ... surely something must peak? Do you find a brightness to anything or switch back to a set of headphones and find it somewhat not what you expected?

@Aetherhole I appreciate you took it with humour.

@Exekuhtor Thank you for taking the comments so well. I appreciate that. And i have apologised.

 

[Exekuhtor]

@Exekuhtor Thank you for taking the comments so well. I appreciate that. And i have apologised.

Lol, i didn't feel attacked at all, i also like hot / uncomfortable takes that aren't directly aimed at the person but rather at the persons reasoning behind it. That's what you attack, always the reason and base, never the person.
Yes, i optimized my chain for the 1266TC previously (which loves the May) and was then punished for it when the Immanis arrived until i switched it out, that stuff happens. All good.
If we have too much positivity it ends up in hyping up everything which is not good for anyone besides the dealers.

(for those I know who are so literal on this forum, I am only kidding about Audeze quip, they have some great products, too)

New ones? Besides the Maxwell? Let me think...
I guess the LCD-2 refresh counts with the nice red wooden rings?

 

[Aetherhole]

Lol, i didn't feel attacked at all, i also like hot / uncomfortable takes that aren't directly aimed at the person but rather at the persons reasoning behind it. That's what you attack, always the reason and base, never the person.
Yes, i optimized my chain for the 1266TC previously (which loves the May) and was then punished for it when the Immanis arrived until i switched it out, that stuff happens. All good.
If we have too much positivity it ends up in hyping up everything which is not good for anyone besides the dealers.

New ones? Besides the Maxwell? Let me think...
I guess the LCD-2 refresh counts with the nice red wooden rings?

CRBN2 isn’t too bad. Maxwell, yes. LCD-4. I also don’t mind the MM-500, too.

 

[Exekuhtor]

CRBN2 isn’t too bad.

Have you heard it? I know a guy that is very interested. @ThanatosVI

LCD-4

Yeah i mean after the LCD-4 release. Basically when they started with their new tuning...

MM-500

You see, sir, this is where the problem started!

This is still the Immanis thread so we should not derail this thread too much.
CRBN2 versus Immanis - GO!
Especially because the pricetag of the CRBN2 gets shockingly high here in europe...

 

[Aetherhole]

I don’t think the Immanis and CRBN2 are comparable. I think the CRBN2 is a great, great estat if you are wanting more bass from an estat. I don’t think it quite has the same resolution and detail maybe because of the increased perceived bass. The three different ways I heard it also were varied experiences. I heard it at SoCal CanJam off of two source chains, I think the LTA was the better one there. Also heard it at Audeze directly off the Mjolnir, which was from my recollection the best it had sounded. I don’t know what the frequency response for the CRBN2 is, but it sounded weightier than the CRBN1 and a more complete sound to my ears. However, the proposition is an interesting one because it isn’t the best estat for resolution, but the bass is not something you normally get from the estats, so it’s a nice middle ground. For $6K (USD) though, I don’t know… for higher there in the EU, uhhhh nah. Immanis hands down, but that’s just me. Again, this doesn’t take into consideration personal preferences or current equipment/chain.

I disagree, i think the problem started with the LCD-5. I do think that the MM-500 was better than the LCD-5, albeit it’s still too shouty for my taste. It’s still not a headphone for me, but comparatively I liked MM-500 better. I think their next flagship will be interesting to see which way they go with that.

 

[Hiker816]

RE: Immanis and TC sub-bass comparisons.

I recall TC rolling off in the sub bass considerably past 40hz. Haven’t heard Immanis but imagine it indeed is fairly linear down to 20hz as reported. Hard to imagine if you break the seal on TCs which in my experience was a requirement to get the best out of them that you are really getting that much 20, 30, 40 hz etc.

LOL.
How about you listen to them side by side on a subbass heavy track, as i did, and then you can tell us about your experience.
Graphs are nice, but don't tell the whole story and the 1266TC graph in general is not realistic because the fit is extremely "make or break" on the bass as a whole, not only subbass.

With all due respect if you are getting a tight seal I can see you getting linear planar bass but if you are breaking it then I think you are mistaking 40-60hz and above - particularly huge spike at 50-60hz for the lower subbass

FWIW (maybe nothing), I don't have any testing equipment and wouldn't know how to operate it if I did, but my listening experience with both the Immanis and 1266 TC tracks what @tameral suggests. The TC has substantially more bass quantity, but the Immanis seems to extend deeper into the subbass before becoming inaudible. To my ears, anyway.

 

[nfandi]

FWIW (maybe nothing), I don't have any testing equipment and wouldn't know how to operate it if I did, but my listening experience with both the Immanis and 1266 TC tracks what @tameral suggests. The TC has substantially more bass quantity, but the Immanis seems to extend deeper into the subbass before becoming inaudible. To my ears, anyway.

Can you remember what you told us when you did a sine wave sweep with Immanis? It’s this that seems to me to completely be the opposite of the experience of @jonchard. I’m not disagreeing with either of your experiences it’s just I recall them as being different.

 

[Hiker816]

Can you remember what you told us when you did a sine wave sweep with Immanis? It’s this that seems to me to completely be the opposite of the experience of @jonchard. I’m not disagreeing with either of your experiences it’s just I recall them as being different.

I could sense but not audibly hear something on the Immanis at about 22 Hz, and could just barely begin to hear it audibly at 25 hz. With the TC, I couldn't hear or feel anything until close to 40 Hz. This was at 68 dBs, though. I imagine I could have picked up something earlier/deeper on both of them at a higher volume.

 

[nfandi]

I could sense but not audibly hear something on the Immanis at about 22 Hz, and could just barely begin to hear it audibly at 25 hz. With the TC, I couldn't hear or feel anything until close to 40 Hz. This was at 68 dBs, though. I imagine I could have picked up something earlier/deeper on both of them at a higher volume.

Thank you Hiker for that. Friend @jonchard likes his personal ‘party time’ to be a little louder than that. Seems the ‘loudness’ at which we feel comfortable has a significant impact on what we personally hear and enjoy.

 

[KaiSc]

Haha, it hit 15Hz on Mitch’s graph but was about minus 8 or 9dB by then. Even the 1266TC is 9dB down at 15Hz and the LCD4 is down about minus 6dB. Can’t argue with the laws of physics.

If the measurement system isn’t rolling off, the AUDEZE LCD-4 is NOT down at 15 Hz.
My own measurements below don’t show any sign of rolloff at 20 Hz.

And if you want more, just EQ it in - LCD-4 takes whatever you throw at it and is highly chain-agnostic - just needs enough power for the loudness level you ask for.

But keep in mind, and I tested it with LCD-4: a sine wave 20 Hz and below is inaudible if it’s not harmonically distorted.
Even at very high level you just get some kind of “uncomfortable” feel.
The bass distortion is one of the tricks of Abyss 1266.

 

[jonchard]

Thank you Hiker for that. Friend @jonchard likes his personal ‘party time’ to be a little louder than that. Seems the ‘loudness’ at which we feel comfortable has a significant impact on what we personally hear and enjoy.

If you boys honestly think TCs bass starts at 40Hz then Im so glad i gave them up for LCD4 which was previously proven and graphed to produce 10Hz flat apparently. Interesting how in practise Abyss actually hits just under LCD4 to my ears and without EQ in my testing. Which would suggest you are a million miles off. I'd test again if i were you. Alternatively, you could simply listen to them its pretty obvious. I was lucky to have all 3 side by side for weeks. If you didnt break the seal to gain the depth of bass, then you simply were not using them right. Again, its was always very obvious to me when Abyss needed adjusting to hit the depths. It was always a constant tune for me to get the best of every song. LCD4 is bliss as they just work.

Just for a quick peruse ... i found this "Some PM designs achieve an almost flat response down to 20Hz but although the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC doesn't quite manage that, very few listeners are likely to notice." and i read the graph for AByss at 20Hz @ -4db and 30Hz @ +0.5db. LCD4 graphs at 10Hz to 1Khz at almost flat no bass drop off.

For bass, looks like i chose the right one But completely disagrees with what you said above

Graphs im looking at and my own listening experiences are wondering what on earth you are both talking about 40Hz. And what exactly you are trying to prove?

 

[Majuto]

Some of us are slow or even slower to adopt "new" things. I just bought my first DSD albums for Hq Player.
And What can I say, just absolutely wonderfull with Immanis.
As Chopin composed Nocturnes for especially night time playing & listening and Bach the superb Goldberg Variations for sleeping difficulties of some aristocratian poor non sleeper!!, the DSD music also sounds both civilized and dynamic. Great also for night time listening with almighty Immanis!

 

[nfandi]

If you boys honestly think TCs bass starts at 40Hz then Im so glad i gave them up for LCD4 which was previously proven and graphed to produce 10Hz flat apparently. Interesting how in practise Abyss actually hits just under LCD4 to my ears and without EQ in my testing. Which would suggest you are a million miles off. I'd test again if i were you. Alternatively, you could simply listen to them its pretty obvious. I was lucky to have all 3 side by side for weeks. If you didnt break the seal to gain the depth of bass, then you simply were not using them right. Again, its was always very obvious to me when Abyss needed adjusting to hit the depths. It was always a constant tune for me to get the best of every song. LCD4 is bliss as they just work.

Just for a quick peruse ... i found this "Some PM designs achieve an almost flat response down to 20Hz but although the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC doesn't quite manage that, very few listeners are likely to notice." and i read the graph for AByss at 20Hz @ -4db and 30Hz @ +0.5db. LCD4 graphs at 10Hz to 1Khz at almost flat no bass drop off.

For bass, looks like i chose the right one But completely disagrees with what you said above

Graphs im looking at and my own listening experiences are wondering what on earth you are both talking about 40Hz. And what exactly you are trying to prove?

Not trying to prove or disprove anything. Seems to me you think the whole world is against you. All I did was look at the graphs on the Accurate Sound website and compare them for the headphones we’re talking about. Mitch is a respected member of the community and his measurements have a consistent methodology across all the headphones for which he’s produced convolution filters. If you’ve seen different graphically represented results make sure they’re not specifically for one headphone but are for all the headphones we’re talking about.

 

[normie610]

Update on my DAC / Streamer research and if anyone has any feedback they want to add.

Aurender A30 /A2 / N20 has been removed after research it just does not seem to check the boxes for me.

Grimm Mu2 - Love this thing but the price tag just is a little too steep for me.

Lumin X1 - This one seems to check all of the boxes and has really good reviews from everyone and right now I can't say that there is any negatives. The only negatives I would have to say is I wouldn't mind buying a second hand one and there's not many for sale but I think that goes to say that people keep them. The second hand market for these are around $6K to $9k which for a high quality stream okay and a DAC. That's a lot of bang for the buck. Little worried about the vrms that comes out of the XLR and what kind of output wattage is going on with this thing. It was one of the reason that's why I started on this new journey and was one of the reasons why I considered May DAC.Roon is a nice bonus

May DAC - I have a lot of friends that swear by these things and originally I was going to buy this as a separate and then get a streamer afterwards. Definitely would have been a more costly way of doing it, but it's always kind of cool to go with the separates you're able to get the best of the best. The may seem to check a lot of the power requirements that I wanted to push the Immanis which was one of the major reasons why I was shopping for a new DAC. The only problem I have is that just too many comments about the recessed vocals recessed vocals on the Immanis Not really the biggest problem in the world but they are there. I certainly don't need a DAC that is going to make that problem any worse. I was so close to buying one of these if it wouldn't be for the Chinese New Year. & Holo Audio taking their time sending me an invoice. I may have been stuck with this thing which wouldn't be horrible.

I don't know how many of you have had a chance to play with the Lumin X and the Immanis but if you have, I would certainly love to hear from you. I checks so many boxes compared to a majority of the other players out there and the reviews are pretty good. It seems like you can't go wrong with a Lumin X. I may have to make my way out and have a demo of one of these soon!

May I ask why you’d need a DAC with high Vrms?

FWIW (maybe nothing), I don't have any testing equipment and wouldn't know how to operate it if I did, but my listening experience with both the Immanis and 1266 TC tracks what @tameral suggests. The TC has substantially more bass quantity, but the Immanis seems to extend deeper into the subbass before becoming inaudible. To my ears, anyway.

It appears both of us have the same set of ears

 

[Hiker816]

Not trying to prove or disprove anything. Seems to me you think the whole world is against you. All I did was look at the graphs on the Accurate Sound website and compare them for the headphones we’re talking about. Mitch is a respected member of the community and his measurements have a consistent methodology across all the headphones for which he’s produced convolution filters. If you’ve seen different graphically represented results make sure they’re not specifically for one headphone but are for all the headphones we’re talking about.

Ditto, and my post was even more subjective than @nfandi 's. I wasn't trying to prove anything. I was just reporting what I believe I heard. Maybe I'm just insane, and what I think I heard has no basis in fact. Who knows . . . I just chimed in with my subjective impression which everyone is free to accept or reject!