R5, a new Android DAP by Hiby
Apr 19, 2021 at 7:25 AM Post #3,781 of 4,421
The SR25 is a nice piece of kit, but like most DAPs it has it's share of issues. I genuinely hope it works out for you.

If I were looking for a R5 alternative today, I would probably consider the new Shanling M3x. It is quite new so there isn't much info on potential issues from users yet.
... but I love how Shanling recommend streaming offline from the internal storage (32 Gb) rather than from an SD card, and state they have no plans to upgrade from Android 7.1. Also Tidal streaming is apparently not gapless :thinking:

Honestly it’s outdated at birth, with 16x MQA the only so-called advantage over the R5 or DX160, which are both going on two years old yet sport a more recent OS. The wide format looks pretty bad too and may not be great in hand, nor does it translate into a bigger screen.

I agree it looks a bit tempting, but mostly because as you say it’s new so people haven’t had the time to run into many issues yet.
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 7:32 AM Post #3,782 of 4,421
I apologize for immediately resorting to being terse. It's been a rough couple weeks in the compound and I wasn't ready for yesterday. Emotional whirlwind, so my sincerest apologies.

I get that there's going to be some differences between. I'll take the good with the bad. Appreciate your willingness to help me find an alternative.

Again, I hold no ill will towards Andrew; I just think I ultimately wasn't pleased with the "accidental selling off" of the sealed units he did have. Occupational hazard, but my mind is always seeing these things in a PCR/project management perspective and inventory control with some of our vendors is a very hot issue. If these sorts of logistics are being brought into my mind with a hobby and not through work, it immediately takes the fun out of the equation and that's honestly what I'm trying to avoid. With COVID, a lot of us already have a pretty serious issue being able to compartmentalize work from home; didn't need another adding factor. That being said, Andrew was very apologetic for it happening and I respect him for that.

Even if the discount had been extended, Open Box items come with questionable origin. I'd have concerns about why the item was marked as such. I'd have the same concerns regardless of manufacturer or vendor, though I know folks like Apos will sell used gear that's only been through a rigorous refurb inspection, backing it's quality up with their own warranty. Open Box IEMs/headphones is one thing, electronic equipment is a different risk altogether and one I'm not currently willing to take.

I'd say it was 50/50. I have pretty average-sized fingers, type only with the edges, and even I was having a bit of a hassle with typing accuracy. Mind, it's leagues better than the Cayin N5iiS, which I thought I'd legitimately need a stylus to operate. It's potentially a calibration issue, but I'm not qualified enough to diagnose.
I've got a HiBy R5 and I love it. Before I had the HiBy R5, I had two iBasso DX160's. For me I could not get good Bluetooth reception from either DX160 but the sound quality was exceptional and a great display. In reality many don't get great Bluetooth reception from the R5 either.....it's pot luck. The iBasso DX160 sounds great and if you can get it for a good price in the US I would seriously consider it, if you cannot get a HiBy R5.
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 7:50 AM Post #3,783 of 4,421
... but I love how Shanling recommend streaming offline from the internal storage (32 Gb) rather than from an SD card, and state they have no plans to upgrade from Android 7.1. Also Tidal streaming is apparently not gapless :thinking:

Honestly it’s outdated at birth, with 16x MQA the only so-called advantage over the R5 or DX160, which are both going on two years old yet sport a more recent OS. The wide format looks pretty bad too and may not be great in hand, nor does it translate into a bigger screen.

I agree it looks a bit tempting, but mostly because as you say it’s new so people haven’t had the time to run into many issues yet.

Agreed. I'm a bit of a tech nerd and I do find the DAC chip interesting with it's integrated amp section and hardware MQA. The jury is out on how it actually sounds however.
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 11:01 AM Post #3,785 of 4,421
Note that you can't really type with your fingernails on a capacitive touchscreen, as your fingernails have no capacitance (or something like that). Typing with the meat of your fingers yields better accuracy, as at least that would register roughly where you intend it to.

I might be misunderstanding you, of course.
Mild misunderstanding. Meant that I usually type with the soft edge of my fingers (not the nail or pad) out of habit already, so the learning curve wasn't that steep. Plus, I've had a Cayin N5iiS for a couple years. Plenty of practice there hahaha. All things considered, the R5's screen is probably 90% there already in terms of usability. Probably just need a recommendation to have users perform their own digitizer calibration.

The suggestion I made is taking advantage of Gboard's scalable keyboard API. I think it was introduced in Android 9 and was meant for dealing with the compatibility issues of larger screens and small hands. Purely a suggestion and may provide no benefit at all, but something something kaizen/six sigma/lean.
The SR25 is a nice piece of kit, but like most DAPs it has it's share of issues. I genuinely hope it works out for you.

If I were looking for a R5 alternative today, I would probably consider the new Shanling M3x. It is quite new so there isn't much info on potential issues from users yet.
I hope so, too, and spec-wise it's about as close to apples to apples as I could reasonably get in terms of hardware. Also had to give a little credence to the Wife Approval Factor on this one and A&K certainly had it on the design front.

Ironically, it's taken me years to get over the iRiver rebranding that became A&K, especially because of their pricing model. Getting to the age where the importance of my money, time, and value of both are practically changing by the day. Merely ran out of excuses to give them a fair shake and make my own judgments. The Lotoo 5000 and Calyx M were also in serious contention.

I have a Shanling M0 still and it's a great and tiny piece of kit. Based on what I've seen, the UI has improved quite a bit as well in the later generations, but wasn't the M3x their problem child when it came to user feedback? That might be me misremembering.

Just figured I'd bite the bullet and see if A&K was just a pretty face or if they've got brains to match. Still being honest that these are DAPs we're taking about and just about every once has limitations. The new entry-level COWON was also on my radar, fwiw.
I've got a HiBy R5 and I love it. Before I had the HiBy R5, I had two iBasso DX160's. For me I could not get good Bluetooth reception from either DX160 but the sound quality was exceptional and a great display. In reality many don't get great Bluetooth reception from the R5 either.....it's pot luck. The iBasso DX160 sounds great and if you can get it for a good price in the US I would seriously consider it, if you cannot get a HiBy R5.
It's silly, but the reason I ended up balking on the DX160 were my color choices. I feel like you have to get that thing in red or blue with that case design. I could get the SR25 in red and, man, is that thing a looker.

I ended up ordering from Bloom after personal recommendations from people at HF I personally communicate with/trust and going though their site with a fine-tooth comb for any red flags. Not a sponsorship of them, but they seem very customer-focused, to an extent where I didn't really doubt I'd be taken care of, even if things don't go well.

Would love to see them carry HiBy as well; matter of fact, perhaps I'll drop a message today with the recommendation.

Make no doubts, I positively loved my time with the R5 Saber and, full disclosure, I'd buy one again in a heartbeat if HiBy ever released another color way than black. Personal preference, but we have too many black rugs and furniture here; black equipment gets misplaced very easily. @joe Blogs ever thought about just having fun with the colorways? I mean it's called the Saber. Could totally make that case look like blued steel :wink:
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 11:13 AM Post #3,786 of 4,421
Agreed. I'm a bit of a tech nerd and I do find the DAC chip interesting with it's integrated amp section and hardware MQA. The jury is out on how it actually sounds however.
The nerd in me can't wrap my head around what benefit there is to upsampling (unfolding 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, etc) the MQA package yet. Seems to me like this is a variation on the oversampling tech we had for CD players a couple decades back, which is now almost common practice for the companies that still make them. Perhaps if you're trying to make corrections via DSP, it's easier to do that while in a 32-bit float, but multipliers on the sampling rate wouldn't strike me as having the same benefit from a (re)mastering perspective.

@Joe Bloggs hoping you can enlighten me on the theory/design decision behind that choice as even I'll admit that the 8x potential is a market differentiator for HiBy at the moment.
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 11:29 AM Post #3,787 of 4,421
The nerd in me can't wrap my head around what benefit there is to upsampling (unfolding 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, etc) the MQA package yet. Seems to me like this is a variation on the oversampling tech we had for CD players a couple decades back, which is now almost common practice for the companies that still make them. Perhaps if you're trying to make corrections via DSP, it's easier to do that while in a 32-bit float, but multipliers on the sampling rate wouldn't strike me as having the same benefit from a (re)mastering perspective.

@Joe Bloggs hoping you can enlighten me on the theory/design decision behind that choice as even I'll admit that the 8x potential is a market differentiator for HiBy at the moment.

MQA is a confusing mess. There are wildly different opinions and I simply can't fully understand the highly technical arguments once you get beyond the origami stuff (which makes some sense - storing the higher rate information below the noise floor).
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 12:11 PM Post #3,788 of 4,421
MQA is a confusing mess. There are wildly different opinions and I simply can't fully understand the highly technical arguments once you get beyond the origami stuff (which makes some sense - storing the higher rate information below the noise floor).
Bingo. I prefer Qobuz myself as I think the Sublime+ tier has been the best annual subscription I've ever been a part of (moreso than Prime) and it's really nice not having to pay the Hi-Res tax on new music if I decide to purchase it after listening. MQA is too enigmatic for me otherwise. I use Spotify to fill in the gaps.

Just remembered the biggest reason I decided to go a different route than the R5s: those bloomin' buttons. In that short time I had it, I inadvertently played, paused, and skipped tracks about 3 out of every 5 times I attempted to turn the screen on. That was with the included case on, mind. I would hope a silent update or whatever next-gen product is released can hopefully figure out a better implementation for that. It just really takes away from the overall experience and I'd rather not have to disable the buttons entirely via a settings menu.
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 1:11 PM Post #3,789 of 4,421
Bingo. I prefer Qobuz myself as I think the Sublime+ tier has been the best annual subscription I've ever been a part of (moreso than Prime) and it's really nice not having to pay the Hi-Res tax on new music if I decide to purchase it after listening. MQA is too enigmatic for me otherwise. I use Spotify to fill in the gaps.

Just remembered the biggest reason I decided to go a different route than the R5s: those bloomin' buttons. In that short time I had it, I inadvertently played, paused, and skipped tracks about 3 out of every 5 times I attempted to turn the screen on. That was with the included case on, mind. I would hope a silent update or whatever next-gen product is released can hopefully figure out a better implementation for that. It just really takes away from the overall experience and I'd rather not have to disable the buttons entirely via a settings menu.

I didn't like the included case and ended up with the Dignis version. It's much tighter fitting and, even though the buttons are covered, seemed to work better IMO. My R5 (original version) is getting a bit long in the tooth so I'm hoping for a substantial update at some point (R5s doesn't count). Not that I need another DAP... :sunglasses:
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 1:48 PM Post #3,790 of 4,421
I didn't like the included case and ended up with the Dignis version. It's much tighter fitting and, even though the buttons are covered, seemed to work better IMO. My R5 (original version) is getting a bit long in the tooth so I'm hoping for a substantial update at some point (R5s doesn't count). Not that I need another DAP... :sunglasses:
I don't think we ever need another one hahahaha. It just works out that way.

Keep in mind the Saber comes with a protein leather slip case instead of the TPU one. Feels decent quality, but yeah...total nightmare around those buttons. The DAP would also constantly slide out of the case when I was plugging stuff into the 4.4mm jack. It got frustrating pretty quickly. If Dignis addresses at least some of that, sounds like money well spent.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 6:48 AM Post #3,791 of 4,421
The nerd in me can't wrap my head around what benefit there is to upsampling (unfolding 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, etc) the MQA package yet. Seems to me like this is a variation on the oversampling tech we had for CD players a couple decades back, which is now almost common practice for the companies that still make them. Perhaps if you're trying to make corrections via DSP, it's easier to do that while in a 32-bit float, but multipliers on the sampling rate wouldn't strike me as having the same benefit from a (re)mastering perspective.

@Joe Bloggs hoping you can enlighten me on the theory/design decision behind that choice as even I'll admit that the 8x potential is a market differentiator for HiBy at the moment.
I must be confused but it seems like the discussion you're asking me to enlighten you on was focused on either the AK SR25 or the Shanling M3x?
 
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Apr 20, 2021 at 7:23 AM Post #3,792 of 4,421
I must be confused but it seems like the discussion you're asking me to enlighten you on was focused on either the AK SR25 or the Shanling M3x?

Hehe... Probably a discussion for another thread or ASR forums if you really want to waste several hours and never really get an answer to the MQA question. The R5 is still the sweet spot IMO for mid-range DAPs. But, the market does move on and new devices are released. My R6 2020 is a good example.... :sunglasses:
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 11:31 AM Post #3,793 of 4,421
I must be confused but it seems like the discussion you're asking me to enlighten you on was focused on either the AK SR25 or the Shanling M3x?
R5 Saber. One of the selling points they're making on the advertising literature is that the Saber is capable of 8x oversampling (unfolding, if you will) of MQA streams, something I didn't even see mentioned as a selling point for the standard R5.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 11:46 AM Post #3,794 of 4,421
R5 Saber. One of the selling points they're making on the advertising literature is that the Saber is capable of 8x oversampling (unfolding, if you will) of MQA streams, something I didn't even see mentioned as a selling point for the standard R5.

FYI, the old R5 also does 8x with current firmware. The R6 2020 does 16x MQA (768 kHz). I guess it's just more upsampling, FWIW.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Post #3,795 of 4,421
FYI, the old R5 also does 8x with current firmware. The R6 2020 does 16x MQA (768 kHz). I guess it's just more upsampling, FWIW.
That's where my head's at as well and why I wanted to get it dressed. I'll avoid the "does it work" line of questioning since, as previously stated, those types of discussions just devolve into chaos.

Just curious about implementation with the R5/s specifically.
 

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