[jasonb]

People seem to think the M-stage has great synergy with the 701. 
Quote:

The Matrix m-stage USB Amp/DAC is about $50 more than the E9K+E17. What would you guys recommend?

 

[DutchGFX]

Quote:

The Matrix m-stage USB Amp/DAC is about $50 more than the E9K+E17. What would you guys recommend?

 


I actually just use the E17 portable and with my comp. I'm looking to get a MagicTube 1 but that is mainly for looks. The E17 alone is great quality I think, so that alone would be a good option

 

[Hooster]

Since this is the Q701 appreciation thread I think you might be interested in this, since the Q701 is essentially the same as a K701:
 
http://reviews.akg.com/7459-en_gb/1/reviews.htm?sort=reviewTextLength
 
"Since then, I have recabled my K701 to dual-entry, using starquad silver/OFC cable, and feel I have reached my own personal auditory heaven. My cousin, who works for an ultra-high-end audiophile manufacturer/modification company, had his opinion of headphones changed forever when I brought my K701 and amp around for a listening audition.
 
I have several other headphones, each for different usage, but I feel that the K701 is definitely one that you should consider if you are searching for the ultimate home-listening headphone experience. They're called Reference Class for a reason!"
 
Ultimate listening experience. Auditory heaven. I could not agree more

Very interesting anecdote about his cousin who had is opinion of headphones changed. My opinion of headphones changed a few years ago when I first heard Denon D2000 cans. It changed again when I heard re cabled Q701s.

 

[WeddingNails]

Quote:

Since this is the Q701 appreciation thread I think you might be interested in this, since the Q701 is essentially the same as a K701:
 
http://reviews.akg.com/7459-en_gb/1/reviews.htm?sort=reviewTextLength
 
"Since then, I have recabled my K701 to dual-entry, using starquad silver/OFC cable, and feel I have reached my own personal auditory heaven. My cousin, who works for an ultra-high-end audiophile manufacturer/modification company, had his opinion of headphones changed forever when I brought my K701 and amp around for a listening audition.
 
I have several other headphones, each for different usage, but I feel that the K701 is definitely one that you should consider if you are searching for the ultimate home-listening headphone experience. They're called Reference Class for a reason!"
 
Ultimate listening experience. Auditory heaven. I could not agree more

Very interesting anecdote about his cousin who had is opinion of headphones changed. My opinion of headphones changed a few years ago when I first heard Denon D2000 cans. It changed again when I heard re cabled Q701s.

Hey Hooster! could you elaborate on why recabling increases the quality of the sound in the Q701s? is it just buying a better cable? which cable do you recommend? Thanks

 

[Hooster]

For me, 3 reasons. My impression is that this is the order of importance.
(If you just substitute the original cable that plugs into the mini XLR with something else, chances are it will not be worth the $ spent on the cable. Just buying better cable is not going to change much, if anything.)
 
1. Simpler signal path. Mini XLR  + headband + multiple internal solders and bits of cable all bypassed.
 
2. Better than stock cable.
 
3. Balanced operation.
 
Materials:
 
001 S 1.00 1.00 NC4FX 4PIN XLR CABLE . 4.57000 $4.57
.
002 S 1.00 1.00 NC4MX XLRM,CBL . 3.39000 $3.39
.
003 S 1.00 1.00 NP3C 1/4" STEREO/MALE . 4.36000 $4.36
.
004 S 16.00 16.00 MAR W2893 MINI QUAD MIC, BLK . 0.82000 $13.12
.
.00000 .00
FREIGHT CHARGES . $12.69
 
Total price: $38.13 The actual cable only cost 13 bucks!
 
Labor 3 hours, free (dressing the microphone cable is time consuming and it's been a long time since I last soldered anything. I also made an adapter cable so I can use the cans single ended if I wish). I actually had a lot of fun doing this, while listening to my speaker stereo system

 
Result. I was considering an upgrade to more expensive cans like Beyerdynamic T1s before I did this mod but now not so much. I am not saying that modded Q701s are as good as T1s. I never heard T1s. I am just delighted with the way the Q701s sound.
 
What would I say to those who say that re cabling has little or no benefit? I would say the are probably right, if they are just talking about sticking another cable into the mini XLR. I would also say that they have never heard a properly modded pair of X701 cans. I challenge anyone who has heard a stock pair of X701 cans and a pair that has been modded for dual entry, direct to driver operation to say that there is not much gain.
 
Would I say that this mod was worth $38 and 3 hours of work? YES!
 
I recommend Mogami cable.

 

[WeddingNails]

Ah, just what I thought. Seems a bit complicated for an amateur in can's modding... I really wouldn't like to screw a pair of Q701 newly bought... Lol.
 

 

[Hooster]

Enjoy your cans. They are great right out of the box, I loved them. No need to rush into anything. (The main reason for me to do this was to convert the headphones to balanced operation in order to take advantage of the fact that my amp has a balanced headphone output.)
 
See David Mahler's battle of the flagships to put them into perspective.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-50-headphones-compared

 

[Veiocity]

Quote:

The Matrix m-stage USB Amp/DAC is about $50 more than the E9K+E17. What would you guys recommend?

Big thanks to everyone who has answered.
The only problem I have now is the mass of conflicting answers I have been given/found across the internet.
Some say that the FiiO E17 will work fine, others that it is terrible.
Some say that the E09K works fine on its own, others that it is terrible.
Usually when I go searching for computer parts I can just look at benchmarks etc. but I understand that sound is very personal, and therefore difficult to make an informed purchase.
If I can save money by buying an E09K or E17, or both combined, then I would be happy. But if I need to spend $250+ for a Matrix m-stage USB then I am happy to do that if it will make a noticeable difference.
I much appreciate everyones input

 

[chicolom]

Quote:

Big thanks to everyone who has answered.
The only problem I have now is the mass of conflicting answers I have been given/found across the internet.
Some say that the FiiO E17 will work fine, others that it is terrible.
Some say that the E09K works fine on its own, others that it is terrible.
Usually when I go searching for computer parts I can just look at benchmarks etc. but I understand that sound is very personal, and therefore difficult to make an informed purchase.
If I can save money by buying an E09K or E17, or both combined, then I would be happy. But if I need to spend $250+ for a Matrix m-stage USB then I am happy to do that if it will make a noticeable difference.
I much appreciate everyones input

 
 
The E17 is a better DAC than the one in the M-stage, so I wouldn't just only get the M-stage USB because its DAC will bottleneck the sound slightly, even if the amp is nice and may be better than the E9..
 
I would probably get the FiiO combo as it's great bang-for-buck.  I would recommend getting them used, b/c there are always FiiOs on the FS forum for great prices and in great condition (amps just sit around and don't get moved or touched usually).
 
You can always upgrade the amp later if you want to try other ones.  I honestly think if you have one of the DACs in the ~$80-150 range you're set, and it's a waste to bother upgrading them.

 

[soundlikes]

Quote:

 
I'm sure the E17 is quite decent, and if your happy with it that's great - but it seems to weird to keep saying that desktop amps are overkill if you haven't actually tried them

 
I'm not saying there are "night-and-day" differences, but there are some improvements....

Sorry, I know this is kind of late now but ....+1

 

[jasonb]

I think it must depend on how loud you listen. Again, for me with the E17, i'm using it on the medium gain setting and I still very rarely exceed the 30 out of 60 volume mark. Only on some older, quieter recordings do I need to turn it past 30. When I'm only using maybe a third of this its full power, what need is there to upgrade? I know some will say there is more to it than power and volume and blah blah blah, but it sounds good, and if you don't listen very loudly then this amp should be plenty for most people. For me this amp does what an amp is intended to do, it cleanly drives the headphones to the proper level. For me the proper level is about 75-80db, maybe 85db when I really want to rock out. 
 
What is spending more money going to get me? Maybe 5% better sound? It's not worth it, diminishing returns kicks in hard and doesn't make much sense. If you have more money to blow, then go for it, buy a more expensive amp. The Q701 and E17 cost only $380 total, it's a killer budget setup for sure. If you listen louder, save up more and pair the E17 with an E09k. This setup is still resolving enough for me to tell that the Bandcamp.com streams aren't as great of quality as I thought. They are still good, but I can make out the lower resolution in the cymbals on some recordings.       

 

[DutchGFX]

I'm getting a pair of K167's for Christmas so i dont really have much more i will get from my parents that big price tag. Would the TubeMagic D1 be a substancial upgrade over the E17? I use e17 as a DAC, with no amp currently. The D1 looksreally cool so there's a plus too haha

 

[chicolom]

Quote:

I think it must depend on how loud you listen. Again, for me with the E17, i'm using it on the medium gain setting and I still very rarely exceed the 30 out of 60 volume mark. Only on some older, quieter recordings do I need to turn it past 30. When I'm only using maybe a third of this its full power, what need is there to upgrade? I know some will say there is more to it than power and volume and blah blah blah, but it sounds good, and if you don't listen very loudly then this amp should be plenty for most people.

 
Yes....It's NOT about volume. 

   How much gain and what volume your using on the E17 is irrelevant.  If I use my Q701s with the E10, I use it on low gain and at around 50-60% volume. 
 
It's about bigger soundstage and better dynamics.  Those are things you can actually hear. 
 
My Q701 sounds good on my E10, but the soundstage is smaller and more muddier (less separation) and the dynamics are more compressed and flat then when compared to any desktop amp I've tried.

 

[jasonb]

This is still the best dynamics and biggest soundstage I have ever heard from a headphone. I also don't notice any muddiness. Is the E17 a step (or two) above the E10? 
Quote:

 
Yes....It's NOT about volume. 

 
It's about bigger soundstage and better dynamics.  Those are things you can actually hear. 
 
My Q701 sounds good on my E10, but the soundstage is smaller and more muddier (less separation) and the dynamics are more compressed and flat then when compared to any desktop amp I've tried.

 

[soundlikes]

Quote:

I think it must depend on how loud you listen. Again, for me with the E17, i'm using it on the medium gain setting and I still very rarely exceed the 30 out of 60 volume mark. Only on some older, quieter recordings do I need to turn it past 30. When I'm only using maybe a third of this its full power, what need is there to upgrade? I know some will say there is more to it than power and volume and blah blah blah, but it sounds good, and if you don't listen very loudly then this amp should be plenty for most people. For me this amp does what an amp is intended to do, it cleanly drives the headphones to the proper level. For me the proper level is about 75-80db, maybe 85db when I really want to rock out. 
 
What is spending more money going to get me? Maybe 5% better sound? It's not worth it, diminishing returns kicks in hard and doesn't make much sense. If you have more money to blow, then go for it, buy a more expensive amp. The Q701 and E17 cost only $380 total, it's a killer budget setup for sure. If you listen louder, save up more and pair the E17 with an E09k. This setup is still resolving enough for me to tell that the Bandcamp.com streams aren't as great of quality as I thought. They are still good, but I can make out the lower resolution in the cymbals on some recordings.       

Yeah in this hobby you really don't want to be cheap unless you are deaf of course ... For anyone looking to buy these cans I recommend to save as much as you think you are willing to spend on a good amp and a separate DAC. The Qs def don't sound that great with the bare minimum budget system; speaking from my own experience of going through 4 different amps with these cans. The 5% your are talking about is actually worth the money, and it's not about the gain or how loud they can get but how rich and full the sound gets when you have a proper high current amp.
 
Just my .02 take it or leave it.