[LordWormwood]

I have found when pairing my E17 with the Q701's I have needed to run the E17 through a JDS Labs CMoyBB (with and without the BB switched on) in order to get any real life from the 'phones.
 
This has made me look at getting a desktop setup - I have ordered the S.E.X from Bottlehead; this is going to be my Christmas project, and now I am wondering what direction to head with a DAC?
 
I am also looking at getting a pair of Orca speakers from Blumenstein Audio to pair with the amp so with that in mind what is on offer for a DAC?
 
 
Regarding the Q701 - I have really enjoyed them both for audio and gaming. There are levels of depth to the bass without it being a booming mess which for me is a real highlight.
 
Cheers,
 
Wormwood 

 

[jasonb]

That is a bit strange. I could really only see maybe a 5% improvement on these with better/more amplification. I've said it before but using mine as a USB DAC, I run mine on the 6db gain, +2 bass boost(+4 sometimes), and I only listen with the volume between 25-32 out of 60. I really do not see much room for improvement. There is nothing lacking for me. Big soundstage, crystal clear, lots of detail, great bass, very dynamic. I really see no reason to switch to a bigger or better amp. 
Quote:

I have found when pairing my E17 with the Q701's I have needed to run the E17 through a JDS Labs CMoyBB (with and without the BB switched on) in order to get any real life from the 'phones.
 
This has made me look at getting a desktop setup - I have ordered the S.E.X from Bottlehead; this is going to be my Christmas project, and now I am wondering what direction to head with a DAC?
 
I am also looking at getting a pair of Orca speakers from Blumenstein Audio to pair with the amp so with that in mind what is on offer for a DAC?
 
 
Regarding the Q701 - I have really enjoyed them both for audio and gaming. There are levels of depth to the bass without it being a booming mess which for me is a real highlight.
 
Cheers,
 
Wormwood 

 

[LordWormwood]

Jason,
 
Thanks for the reply. I too found that on it's own the E17 needed to be around the 30 mark; I did play around with the bass up to +3 but to me the unit didn't sparkle as it had when it was solely run through the CMoy.
 
As for the Bottlehead - the desire is more about building from scratch with a huge amount of guiding hands plus I want to give the whole tube a good going. The other bonus of the S.E.X is that it runs speakers - which in mine mind is a huge benefit. 
 
I did run without the E17 for about five months after tech issue - I couldn't get the E17 to switch on so I sent it back... which was deduced that it was the usb cord over the unit. Upon it's 'return' it either didn't get sent or went missing in action. Running tickets with MP4Nation took about the 4 months I mentioned above. I mention this as during that time I had to unearth my CMoy 2.02 and just fell in love with it's output. It's not a volume thing it is the actual mood and feeling of the sound being issued forth. Upon the E17's return I then spent about two months with it alone... the shift between the two units was like having a Lover and having a pay-per-round meetings... one was warm and personal (the CMoy) while the other did all the right moves but without the Girl Friend Experience.
 
 
Too much information - to my ears not really. 
 
 
 
Wormwood

 

[Hooster]

Quote:

 
Mogami is good and cheap. Not sure why so many others refuse to try it over the fancy $100+ aftermarket cables. I've found it's often a slight upgrade from stock for most headphones. The best result is exactly how you did it. I've heard horror stories of blown drivers when soldering the wires to the Q701/K702 driver. I guess the trick is to not let the soldering iron touch the soldering point for too long.
 
When upgrading the Q701's cable using the Mini-XLR plugs, there is still the internal wires going to the driver. Strangely enough you can still get a benefit of a cable upgrade.
 
I'm curious why you wouldn't touch the Mini XLR? Switchcraft sells mini-XLR plugs but singles are up to $8 now for some reason. They're so tiny that it's a pain for me to solder them. I need more practice. The first try was a disaster, but I did OK with the 2nd one. "Helping Hands" and/or a Vise really help a lot.
 
BTW there is one company out there that sells Q701 cable upgrades for under $35. It's a company called "Best Tronics". I believe they use generic Belden. I prefer stock cable.
 
Sometime when I get good at making them I'd like to make a tutorial on Youtube on how to do it. It's a fun project.
 
Oh yeah..unfortunately the hard part of recabling the Q701 straight to the driver is that you have to drill holes. I used Mogami W2893 with my HD-598 and had to do this, but the 598 plastic is ridiculously thin. You could poke through it with a nail or screw!
 
The problem with some Q701 DIY cable upgrades is that it can actually be made WORSE. I think Mogami works so well is that it's high capacitance and the Q701 won't lose any of it's warmth.

 
Wow, nobody told me about the blown drivers

. Anyway, I don't have the patience to hold the soldering iron in one place for long enough for that to happen. I just solder the thing and move on.
 
I would not touch the mini XLR because I don't think it is worth the trouble. I wanted to solder directly to the drivers anyway so there was no need for me to touch the mini XLR. My mini XLR is still sitting there in the can but not connected to anything of course. I don't see any reason to remove it. I drilled holes into both cans.
 
To be honest, drilling the holes was a walk in the park, much easier to me than the fiddly soldering of microphone cable. I have an electric drill and assorted drill bits so it was just a matter of lining up the drill and a little push and through she went.
 
I didn't realize that a cable upgrade could make the cans sound worse! I am glad I picked Mogami. I used W2893. Very nice to work with.
 
I suspect that the improvements I noticed mostly happened for 2 reasons. The way I connect the cables is vastly simpler to the way AKG does it. Stock, the right hand driver goes through multiple solders and cables before it even exits the cans. I just solder the cable directly to the driver. This simplicity makes for a purer signal path. The Mogami cable is probably considerably better than the cable provided by AKG. Of course going from single ended to balanced should also be an improvement but I have an adapter to single ended and I find that the single ended sound is also significantly better from the modified cans than stock.
 
I can recommend Mogami W2893 to anyone considering this.
 
There are many ways to skin a cat. I am sure there are craftsmen out there who would be happy to do this. If you have $ to burn I am sure Stefan Art for example would be happy to oblige....

 

[Hooster]

I have been testing the difference between balanced operation and single ended. I have an adapter that lets me use a single ended headphone jack in my amplifier. There is a difference but nothing like the difference between the stock cables and the new cables. Careful listening reveals slightly better definition across the spectrum but the biggest difference is in the bass where balanced gives more attack and what feels like a deeper bass than single ended.
 
So, would this mod be worthwhile if you are not going balanced at the same time? I would say a big yes.
 
I found this http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/balancedheadphones/one.html
 
"[size=x-small]Balanced operation was able to extract much deeper bass from the K701 without losing grip or control over it. There was simply a far more physical feeling to the lower registers, probably still insufficient to satisfy a bass hound but certainly enough to satisfy anybody feeling the AKGs to be just a little lean and dry in the lower octaves, without going overboard and becoming loose or wobbly. The Rudistor actually went a little further than the Desktop balanced in its ability to pull bass out of the AKGs but both amps made a very substantial improvement). It was very obvious on all recordings with any sort of bass extension but it hit me particularly when listening to Saint-Saens' Carnaval des Animaux [EMI CDM 7691122]. Its double basses represent an elephant and for the first time I actually felt the pachyderm's heavy footsteps shake the bones of my head.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]A second trait of the AKG is its musical transparency and again I found the balanced cans much superior in their ability to retrieve musically relevant details (as opposed to brightly enhancing all details) and position them properly in the musical flow. I have been wondering if this was a result of the increased control over the voice coils or just the naturally lower noise floor provided by balanced operation. The last element I noticed is that the stock AKG is the headphone with the widest headstage I have heard so far but the balanced version goes much further on that aspect, with a very wide stage but still very little sense of depth. Whether this is due to the lack of cross talk or the deeper bass better rendering ambient cues or the increased level of details (or all of the above) I can't say but the improvement was significant and returning to SE operation felt as though walls were closing in around my head.[size=x-small]"[/size][/size]
 
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small]I [size=x-small]agree with these observations. Note that the balanced implementation discussed [size=x-small]above[/size] is probably not optimal since the signal from the right [size=x-small]can[/size] [size=x-small]still goes through the headband... [/size][/size][/size][/size]

 

[preproman]

Quote:

I have been testing the difference between balanced operation and single ended. I have an adapter that lets me use a single ended headphone jack in my amplifier. There is a difference but nothing like the difference between the stock cables and the new cables. Careful listening reveals slightly better definition across the spectrum but the biggest difference is in the bass where balanced gives more attack and what feels like a deeper bass than single ended.
 
So, would this mod be worthwhile if you are not going balanced at the same time? I would say a big yes.
 
I found this http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/balancedheadphones/one.html
 
 
[size=x-small][size=x-small]I [size=x-small]agree with these observations. Note that the balanced implementation discussed [size=x-small]above[/size] is probably not optimal since the signal from the right [size=x-small]can[/size] [size=x-small]still goes through the headband... [/size][/size][/size][/size]

 
 
Hey Hooster,
 
I'm sure you know a lot about balance operations with the talks we've been having over in the Bryston BHA-1 thread.  I have a few questions based on the highlighted and underlined text you see above.
 
Do you have a balanced system from top to bottom?  Meaning is you DAC and AMP fully balanced?  I run a balanced system, my Dac and Amp don't even have any SE inputs or outputs.  I have to get all my headphones re cabled.  When I re cable the headphones I do dual entry.  L- L+  R- R+.  I have no SE operations in my audio chain.  If this is the case with your system.  You should be able to notice a difference.  Lets not start the Hype train here.  It's not a night and day difference.  
 
However, the difference I can tell is wider, layered, holographic soundstaging that can give a sense of better resolution, or at least it's easier to pick details out.  Noticeably better control on all bass related sound.  Tighter, more accurate, better attack.  IMO fully balanced operation has better control over the drivers.  
 
In a truly balanced setup you'll get double everything (slew rate, power).  If you have a noisy amp you'll get double the noise as well - not good.  No the sound sig does not change, it just does everything a little better IMO.  

 

[Hooster]

Quote:

 
Do you have a balanced system from top to bottom?  Meaning is you DAC and AMP fully balanced?  I run a balanced system, my Dac and Amp don't even have any SE inputs or outputs.  I have to get all my headphones re cabled.  When I re cable the headphones I do dual entry.  L- L+  R- R+.  I have no SE operations in my audio chain.  If this is the case with your system.  You should be able to notice a difference.  Lets not start the Hype train here.  It's not a night and day difference.  
 
However, the difference I can tell is wider, layered, holographic soundstaging that can give a sense of better resolution, or at least it's easier to pick details out.  Noticeably better control on all bass related sound.  Tighter, more accurate, better attack.  IMO fully balanced operation has better control over the drivers.  
 
In a truly balanced setup you'll get double everything (slew rate, power).  If you have a noisy amp you'll get double the noise as well - not good.  No the sound sig does not change, it just does everything a little better IMO.  

 
No, my system is not balanced top to bottom. Some day I would like to have a system like that but at the moment my source components are single ended. There IS a slight difference between the single ended and balanced output of my headphone amp, but like I said it is not huge.
 
I think the issue you mentioned with control over the drivers applies regardless of whether the source components are balanced or not. I do notice a tighter and more accurate attack with the balanced output. The actual drive for the headphones is balanced. In terms of control over drivers I don't think it makes any difference whether your source components are balanced or not. In terms of over all quality such as holographic soundstaging I think that a fully balanced chain should usually be better than a single ended one.
 
For amplifier schematics:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/balancedheadphones/one.html
 
So I think the benefits you are seeing come from the balanced drive for your cans plus the fact that your source components are balanced.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
No, my system is not balanced top to bottom. Some day I would like to have a system like that but at the moment my source components are single ended. There IS a slight difference between the single ended and balanced output of my headphone amp, but like I said it is not huge.
 
I think the issue you mentioned with control over the drivers applies regardless of whether the source components are balanced or not. I do notice a tighter and more accurate attack with the balanced output. The actual drive for the headphones is balanced. In terms of control over drivers I don't think it makes any difference whether your source components are balanced or not. In terms of over all quality such as holographic soundstaging I think that a fully balanced chain should usually be better than a single ended one.
 
For amplifier schematics:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/balancedheadphones/one.html
 
So I think the benefits you are seeing come from the balanced drive for your cans plus the fact that your source components are balanced.

 
 
 
Right,
 
I wasn't pin pointing the source components.  However, IMO to get the full benefit of a balanced amplifier you must fed it a balanced source.  
 
Again with a fully balanced system the main advantage is that a balanced headphone amplifier will have twice the slew rate, twice the voltage gain, twice the available voltage swing, half the output impedance, and 4 times the power of an equivalent unbalanced rig.  This includes the source components IMO.
 
To me the main reason to go to a fully balanced system is to increase speed and power to the headphones 2x the voltage swing, 2x the output current, no cross-talk better instrument separation, more detail, better bass response, and an overall fuller sound.
 
Remember a balanced amplifier = 2 completely separate amplifier sections per channel.  

 

[Chris J]

Right,

I wasn't pin pointing the source components.  However, IMO to get the full benefit of a balanced amplifier you must fed it a balanced source.  

Again with a fully balanced system the main advantage is that a balanced headphone amplifier will have twice the slew rate, twice the voltage gain, twice the available voltage swing, half the output impedance, and 4 times the power of an equivalent unbalanced rig.  This includes the source components IMO.

To me the main reason to go to a fully balanced system is to increase speed and power to the headphones 2x the voltage swing, 2x the output current, no cross-talk better instrument separation, more detail, better bass response, and an overall fuller sound.

Remember a balanced amplifier = 2 completely separate amplifier sections per channel.  

The link shows an amp without a differential input, no Common Mode Noise Rejection. For that example, I don't see the point in driving this with a balanced signal.
However, a balanced signal is useful if you are using a true differential input.
In addition, unless the designer has taken steps to null out the distortion, you will get twice the distortion of one amp.
Headphones don't need that much power, voltage swing or slew rate, so those advantages of differential drive are basically academic.
A balanced power amp may be necessary if you are trying to generate 1000 Watts into an 8 Ohm load.
The balanced output will also have twice the output impedance of an equivalent SE amp.

I have a balanced amp, balanced in, balanced out.
It has a balanced ( differential) input and a balanced output.
It is a single amplifier, not two separate amplifiers.
The designer used this design to cancel out distortion.

 

[savagetuna]

Hey everyone!
Just looking for some thoughts on my potential new rig.
 
Right now i have Sennheiser HD439 that i use with my ipod and macbook pro (unamped). I am thinking doing a major upgrade to my home setup:
 
Macbook Pro > Fiio E9 with docked E7 > AKG Q701
 
I was thinking about getting the E7/E9 combo and the Q701s for Christmas and using it as my home setup and then using the E7 with my HD439s and ipod strictly as a portable set up, and when I need a bass fix.
 
Is this going to be a good combo? Will the e7/e9 go well with the Q701s? Should I break the extra cost and upgrade to the e17 and e9k?
 
This is going to be my first hifi rig so any suggestions welcome!

 

[jasonb]

Definitely go for the E17 over the E7. Its said to be a worthwhile upgrade. I have never used the E7, but the E17 is quite nice. I drive my Q701 with the E17 alone.

 

[chroniX]

Does anyone have the Q701 paried with the E9? I will be getting my Q701 tomorrow, can't wait to try them.

I'm wondering if anyone could do me a favor and compare the Q701 with high-gain vs low-gain on the Fiio E9 to see which one sounds better.

 

[kazaakas]

Quote:

Does anyone have the Q701 paried with the E9? I will be getting my Q701 tomorrow, can't wait to try them.
I'm wondering if anyone could do me a favor and compare the Q701 with high-gain vs low-gain on the Fiio E9 to see which one sounds better.

By just adjusting the switch, the only difference is the sensitivity of the volume knob

 

[Chris J]

​

By just adjusting the switch, the only difference is the sensitivity of the volume knob

I have an E17, I don't hear a difference when I use different gain settings. Obviously I have to adjust the volume control to compensation for the difference in gain!
But sonically they all sound the same to me.

 

[preproman]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/hifiman-he-500-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project/247#post_8907463
 
Post #247