Nov 30, 2010 at 11:47 AM Post #16 of 38


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Actually, planar magnetic headphones have been called omni-dynamic, linear drive dynamic, ortho-dynamic...  as you see, with the word "dynamic" in them.
 
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The LCD-2 is not a dynamic headphone, it is a planar headphone. If you are attempting to convey something else in your post then I suggest that you redraft it, and lose the attitude.
 


 


I take your point, but in general usage within these forum threads, the term "dynamic" or "dynamic driver" is referring to headphones with moving coil drivers, rather than Planar magnetic headphones. Ortho-dynamic is more commonly used to describe Planar magnetic headphones than the other terms that you have mentioned. Audez'e actually refer to the LCD-2 as Planar magnetic rather than ortho-dynamic.

 
For all meaningful purposes, I think it's fair to describe impressions of the LCD-2 as being one of the best dynamic headphones of all time, inasmuch as we consider dynamic headphones to be headphones that can interchangably be paired with a dynamic amplifier (which is why you would exclude Stax). 
 
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 11:51 AM Post #17 of 38


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I had the opportunity to audition and borrow a pair of PS1000s for a few months if I liked them, well after auditioning them I found that they were a just a bit too "magical" for me and had no desire to borrow them for any length of time.  This is coming from one bona fide contentious owner of the less "magical" LCD2s. 
eek.gif


Well it's all about personal preference in the end don't you think? I've been corresponding with a Head-Fi'er whom has owned both and doesn't find the LCD-2 "magical" enough. I don't think that I'd be misrepresenting him to suggest that he prefers both the PS1000 and the HD800 to the LCD-2.


You're too uptight when someone offers an opinion from their personal experience.  That is what the OP asked for.  I know I've never owned them, and I stated I owned the LCD2s...this should imply that there will be a form of bias in my opinions...unless one was too thick to realise the obvious.  Relax...you ain't no dictator of jack, and neither am I.  I know I am insignificant in the bigger scheme of things, and I think you need to realise the same.  Someone else likes the PS1000 more than the LCD2s...fine, whatever...I'm cool with that.
 
Just take a deep breath, and count to three. 
 
We cool?
 
beerchug.gif

 
Nov 30, 2010 at 12:42 PM Post #18 of 38


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From what I've read, the LCD-2 & any Grado would complement each other well, so why not have both?  I you like the "magical", musical, and emotional sound of Grados, I recommend the RS1i (which many consider to be the best Grado, still) instead of the PS1000.  With the extra money you save going that route, you can pick up the LCD-2 as well.


Well, I am currently using Steve Kelbey's custom heavily modified Grados, which he ranked above the RS1 and only to be bettered by the PS1000. I am in love with the sound these put out, so if that's any indication of what the PS1000 will sound like I might have to go that route. Granted, I did not have a chance to audition an RS1 for an extended period of time, so I cannot confirm that I find my Grados better sounding than the RS1, but from what I heard at a brief in-store audition the Grados I'm using now definitely come out on top for my musical tastes. Although price is definitely a consideration, it is not the deciding factor in my case because I can get the PS1000 for close to the price of the LCD-2 (25% off today, 15% off with power conditioner and extra ICs any other day), so I would base my decision mostly on the sound. It probably would be helpful to keep price in consideration throughout this thread for anyone else reading this trying to decide between the two, though.
 


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The PS1000 has been the victim of a lot of dubious drubbings, not because there's anything wrong with its sound but because (a) everybody is an expert after five minutes and (b) Grado generated a lot of bad blood when it priced the PS1000 at $1,700.  As someone who once owned the HD800, the PS1000 and the T1 simultaneously, I can tell you that there's nothing wrong with the PS1000 except the price.  In certain areas, like speed and soundstage, I'd have given the nod to the HD800, but when it came to dissolving the frame between listener and music, the PS1000 was the winner hands-down.  
 
I wouldn't pick it for classical, at least not symphonic material, because its intimate soundstage doesn't work for a genre where you're supposed to feel like you're in nosebleed hearing everything - including the air - but for most genres, its sound was second-to-none.  I didn't like having to worry about scratching up the shiny aluminum housing, nor did I think the headband had evolved with the shells.  I didn't like worrying that the cups would roll off my head if I "rocked out" too much.  I also think there are times when the 100 Hz slam doesn't work, such as when you need that area to be even, rather than emphasized.  But think about it: If those are the downsides, wearing these headphones is a lot like Dudley Moore's character of Arthur in his discussion about what it's like to own a yacht: "It doesn't suck."
 
I think Grado priced the PS1000 at $1,700 because the PS1000 is a combination of the GS1000 ($1,000) and the RS-1 ($700), which is absurd.  Personally, I think all of these post-$1,000 prices are absurd.  They're just reflections of a market that has gotten increasingly surreal.  Be that as it may, Grado would have sold more of these  - and have received a lot more praise - if it had priced them at $1,200.  But when I read of negative reviews, or some Grand Poobah's Top 20 - and he leaves out the PS1000 because it's not trendy enough for him - I have to laugh.  As ridiculous as it was for Grado to charge $1,700 for these headphones, it is equally ridiculous for folks to run them down, simply because they cost too much.  Having worn mine well past burn-in, I can tell you that these 30-minute experts are just idiots running around in a Superman cape.
 
I've never heard the LCD-2, so I can't comment on how it sounds, though it's certainly the belle of the ball right now - and priced at under a grand - it has entered the dance floor wearing glass slippers.  I'm not here to dispute the LCD-2's favored position as the current darling of the headphone market, just the knee-jerk dismissal tossed at the PS1000.  Considering the number of people who love the RS-1-sized HF2 (which is a "baby PS1000") it's stupid to knock the PS1000, which gives you an RS1 sound with all of the comfort of a GS1000.  Grado wants an awful lot of money for these cans, but anybody who thinks it's slumming to wear them needs to check to see if they're actually listening to their sound or just listening to the crowd.


Thanks for the super informative reply Bilavideo. I, too, get the impression that it takes a while to truly appreciate the PS1000 and all that it has to offer, and a 30 min. audition isn't enough to realize the potential they have. I have been reading your thread about the PS1000, which is one of the things that pushed me over the edge and convinced me to look into buying them. I also remember Steve's praise of the PS1000 when he sold me my current set of cans; he has a great ear and I thoroughly respect his opinion. If you don't mind me asking, what was the reason you sold your PS1000?
 
Also, the soundstage concern of the PS1000 isn't a huge one for me, as I have read that the placement and imaging is pretty darn good, even if the stage is more intimate than some of the other big players. Does anyone care to comment on how this would compare to the LCD-2?
 
Does anyone currently own both the PS1000 and the LCD-2, or has had both simultaneously in the past care to chime in? I think it would be a great asset to the thread if anyone who has been able to spend a good deal of time with both sets of phones could give their opinion of the sonic differences and emotional character of each.
 
Thanks everyone for all the help so far!
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 12:58 PM Post #19 of 38


Quote:
From what I've read, the LCD-2 & any Grado would complement each other well, so why not have both?  I you like the "magical", musical, and emotional sound of Grados, I recommend the RS1i (which many consider to be the best Grado, still) instead of the PS1000.  With the extra money you save going that route, you can pick up the LCD-2 as well.



I agree 100% that they would compliment each other. I own the ps1000 and had a brief listen to the lcd-2's. Both are great headphones but are completely different beasts. Its almost pointless comparing them as their sound signatures are so different, but great in their own right.
 
I wouldn't mind owning the lcd-2's, but my ps1000's are going nowhere.
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 1:15 PM Post #20 of 38
 
Thanks for the super informative reply Bilavideo. I, too, get the impression that it takes a while to truly appreciate the PS1000 and all that it has to offer, and a 30 min. audition isn't enough to realize the potential they have. I have been reading your thread about the PS1000, which is one of the things that pushed me over the edge and convinced me to look into buying them. I also remember Steve's praise of the PS1000 when he sold me my current set of cans; he has a great ear and I thoroughly respect his opinion. If you don't mind me asking, what was the reason you sold your PS1000?


When I sold mine, it wasn't for any real issues with sound.  First, I had all this money tied up in headphones whose value exceeded my comfort level in taking them with me everywhere I go.  I didn't want them scratched up, stolen, dropped or damaged by rain.  In this case, the burdens of owning a luxury item weighed upon me.  Second, I started getting into modding and needed more money for equipment and supplies.  We all have our quirks and mine just happens to be a restlessness that compels me to figure out how to build my own cans to my own specs.  I haven't experimented with all of the different kinds of wood - and how each affects the sound - but I've made short and long shells, with skinny and thick walls.  I'm not sure there's a headphone in existence that will do everything I want it to do, but I'm interested in two areas.  One would be a larger mylar diaphragm utilizing a mostly wood spider and a ring magnet.  The other would be a different driver orientation, not just angled but reset completely.  With the money I got back by reselling my PS1000, I've been able to buy more equipment and materials as well as make some real monster shells as well as some interesting designs with promise.
 
If I were buying a Grado and money were no object - apart from the luxury exotics like the PS1 and the HP1000 (whose drivers are irreplaceable) - I wouldn't hesitate to buy another PS1000.
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 1:17 PM Post #21 of 38


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From what I've read, the LCD-2 & any Grado would complement each other well, so why not have both?  I you like the "magical", musical, and emotional sound of Grados, I recommend the RS1i (which many consider to be the best Grado, still) instead of the PS1000.  With the extra money you save going that route, you can pick up the LCD-2 as well.



I agree 100% that they would compliment each other. I own the ps1000 and had a brief listen to the lcd-2's. Both are great headphones but are completely different beasts. Its almost pointless comparing them as their sound signatures are so different, but great in their own right.
 
I wouldn't mind owning the lcd-2's, but my ps1000's are going nowhere.


Would you be able to comment on which genres each would excel at? From what I've read the PS1000 excels at Jazz, rock, and acoustic, but I could be wrong. Are there specific genres where the LCD-2s would have an edge over the PS1000, or the other way around?
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 1:29 PM Post #22 of 38


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Thanks for the super informative reply Bilavideo. I, too, get the impression that it takes a while to truly appreciate the PS1000 and all that it has to offer, and a 30 min. audition isn't enough to realize the potential they have. I have been reading your thread about the PS1000, which is one of the things that pushed me over the edge and convinced me to look into buying them. I also remember Steve's praise of the PS1000 when he sold me my current set of cans; he has a great ear and I thoroughly respect his opinion. If you don't mind me asking, what was the reason you sold your PS1000?


When I sold mine, it wasn't for any real issues with sound.  First, I had all this money tied up in headphones whose value exceeded my comfort level in taking them with me everywhere I go.  I didn't want them scratched up, stolen, dropped or damaged by rain.  In this case, the burdens of owning a luxury item weighed upon me.  Second, I started getting into modding and needed more money for equipment and supplies.  We all have our quirks and mine just happens to be a restlessness that compels me to figure out how to build my own cans to my own specs.  I haven't experimented with all of the different kinds of wood - and how each affects the sound - but I've made short and long shells, with skinny and thick walls.  I'm not sure there's a headphone in existence that will do everything I want it to do, but I'm interested in two areas.  One would be a larger mylar diaphragm utilizing a mostly wood spider and a ring magnet.  The other would be a different driver orientation, not just angled but reset completely.  With the money I got back by reselling my PS1000, I've been able to buy more equipment and materials as well as make some real monster shells as well as some interesting designs with promise.
 
If I were buying a Grado and money were no object - apart from the luxury exotics like the PS1 and the HP1000 (whose drivers are irreplaceable) - I wouldn't hesitate to buy another PS1000.


Got it. I see where you're coming from. I baby my headphones as it is, and I think I would have to buy/make a separate case for these PS1000s. From what I hear the sound these things put out is well worth the effort though!
I love to tinker with things too, but I haven't been able to try building my own headphones yet, mostly due to a lack of space for the equipment required. I don't want to get too far off topic, but have you considered using a laser cutter or a 3D printer to make some of your test parts? Although the acoustics of the 3D printing material would not be as good as wood, it might help give you an idea of what shape shell would sound the most like what you're after? Although 3D printers sound exotic and expensive, they're not actually all that hard to come by nowadays. I know a couple of my friends have them on their school campus and they can pay a fee to use them.
 
Thanks again for your input Bilavideo. I think I am leaning towards the PS1000 right now, but have not fully made up my mind and am still on the edge between the two. My wallet hates you right now :)
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 2:11 PM Post #23 of 38

Ok, first of all, as already pointed out, it IS a dynamic headphone! Second, YOU are the one with the attitude, 'more reading seems to be required'.
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"Euhm", the LCD-2 is not a dynamic driver headphone. More 'reading' seems to be required.



Besides being an ass, you should also check your facts. Small suggestion, start by reading my post again.

 
The LCD-2 is not a dynamic headphone, it is a planar headphone. If you are attempting to convey something else in your post then I suggest that you redraft it, and lose the attitude.
 



 
Nov 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM Post #24 of 38


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Actually, planar magnetic headphones have been called omni-dynamic, linear drive dynamic, ortho-dynamic...  as you see, with the word "dynamic" in them.
 
Quote:
The LCD-2 is not a dynamic headphone, it is a planar headphone. If you are attempting to convey something else in your post then I suggest that you redraft it, and lose the attitude.
 


 


I take your point, but in general usage within these forum threads, the term "dynamic" or "dynamic driver" is referring to headphones with moving coil drivers, rather than Planar magnetic headphones. Ortho-dynamic is more commonly used to describe Planar magnetic headphones than the other terms that you have mentioned. Audez'e actually refer to the LCD-2 as Planar magnetic rather than ortho-dynamic.

 
For all meaningful purposes, I think it's fair to describe impressions of the LCD-2 as being one of the best dynamic headphones of all time, inasmuch as we consider dynamic headphones to be headphones that can interchangably be paired with a dynamic amplifier (which is why you would exclude Stax). 
 

 
I'm sorry but I don't agree. 
 
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 5:26 PM Post #25 of 38


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I had the opportunity to audition and borrow a pair of PS1000s for a few months if I liked them, well after auditioning them I found that they were a just a bit too "magical" for me and had no desire to borrow them for any length of time.  This is coming from one bona fide contentious owner of the less "magical" LCD2s. 
eek.gif


Well it's all about personal preference in the end don't you think? I've been corresponding with a Head-Fi'er whom has owned both and doesn't find the LCD-2 "magical" enough. I don't think that I'd be misrepresenting him to suggest that he prefers both the PS1000 and the HD800 to the LCD-2.


You're too uptight when someone offers an opinion from their personal experience.  That is what the OP asked for.  I know I've never owned them, and I stated I owned the LCD2s...this should imply that there will be a form of bias in my opinions...unless one was too thick to realise the obvious.  Relax...you ain't no dictator of jack, and neither am I.  I know I am insignificant in the bigger scheme of things, and I think you need to realise the same.  Someone else likes the PS1000 more than the LCD2s...fine, whatever...I'm cool with that.
 
Just take a deep breath, and count to three. 
 
We cool?
 
beerchug.gif

 
I offered a different point of view to your own. There's no need to take it personally and react defensively.   
 
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 5:36 PM Post #26 of 38


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Actually, planar magnetic headphones have been called omni-dynamic, linear drive dynamic, ortho-dynamic...  as you see, with the word "dynamic" in them.
 
Quote:
The LCD-2 is not a dynamic headphone, it is a planar headphone. If you are attempting to convey something else in your post then I suggest that you redraft it, and lose the attitude.
 


 


I take your point, but in general usage within these forum threads, the term "dynamic" or "dynamic driver" is referring to headphones with moving coil drivers, rather than Planar magnetic headphones. Ortho-dynamic is more commonly used to describe Planar magnetic headphones than the other terms that you have mentioned. Audez'e actually refer to the LCD-2 as Planar magnetic rather than ortho-dynamic.

You are wrong. Orthodynamics are dynamic headphones (as opposed to electrostatic or magnetostatic headphones). They are a special type of dynamics, but still dynamics.
 
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM Post #27 of 38


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Actually, planar magnetic headphones have been called omni-dynamic, linear drive dynamic, ortho-dynamic...  as you see, with the word "dynamic" in them.
 
Quote:
The LCD-2 is not a dynamic headphone, it is a planar headphone. If you are attempting to convey something else in your post then I suggest that you redraft it, and lose the attitude.
 


 


I take your point, but in general usage within these forum threads, the term "dynamic" or "dynamic driver" is referring to headphones with moving coil drivers, rather than Planar magnetic headphones. Ortho-dynamic is more commonly used to describe Planar magnetic headphones than the other terms that you have mentioned. Audez'e actually refer to the LCD-2 as Planar magnetic rather than ortho-dynamic.

You are wrong. Orthodynamics are dynamic headphones (as opposed to electrostatic or magnetostatic headphones). They are a special type of dynamics, but still dynamics.
 


Sorry for the slight detour of this thread, but in what way would you say that an orthodynamic driver differs from a magnetostatic driver?
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 6:02 PM Post #28 of 38


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Ok, first of all, as already pointed out, it IS a dynamic headphone! Second, YOU are the one with the attitude, 'more reading seems to be required'.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"Euhm", the LCD-2 is not a dynamic driver headphone. More 'reading' seems to be required.



Besides being an ass, you should also check your facts. Small suggestion, start by reading my post again.

 
The LCD-2 is not a dynamic headphone, it is a planar headphone. If you are attempting to convey something else in your post then I suggest that you redraft it, and lose the attitude.
 


 

 
The LCD-2 is a Planar magnetic headphone; also known as an ortho-dynamic headphone. To refer to it as a "dynamic" is too generic to be of any descriptive use. I've never seen a Planar magnetic or ortho-dynamic headphone referred to as a "dynamic" in these forum threads. It is usually called an "ortho" or a "planar". The term "dynamic" is used in these forum threads to refer to magnetic coil driver dynamic headphones. 
 
Your use of the term "dynamic" wasn't specific enough and the tone of your post was antagonistic. I replied accordingly.       
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 6:25 PM Post #29 of 38
Hahaha, thanks for the white flag, I'l find a nice spot for it.
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 7:26 PM Post #30 of 38


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Actually, planar magnetic headphones have been called omni-dynamic, linear drive dynamic, ortho-dynamic...  as you see, with the word "dynamic" in them.
 
Quote:
The LCD-2 is not a dynamic headphone, it is a planar headphone. If you are attempting to convey something else in your post then I suggest that you redraft it, and lose the attitude.
 


 


I take your point, but in general usage within these forum threads, the term "dynamic" or "dynamic driver" is referring to headphones with moving coil drivers, rather than Planar magnetic headphones. Ortho-dynamic is more commonly used to describe Planar magnetic headphones than the other terms that you have mentioned. Audez'e actually refer to the LCD-2 as Planar magnetic rather than ortho-dynamic.

You are wrong. Orthodynamics are dynamic headphones (as opposed to electrostatic or magnetostatic headphones). They are a special type of dynamics, but still dynamics.
 


Sorry for the slight detour of this thread, but in what way would you say that an orthodynamic driver differs from a magnetostatic driver?


I have no idea. Enlighten me via a PM.
 

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