[holderlin]

Has anyone here tried any pro audio power conditioners (e.g. ETA Furman, Tripp Lite, SurgeX) in their consumer audio set ups? Most seem to have EMI/RFI filtering.

What are some of the features that I should be looking for in power conditioners/surge protectors.

Thanks

 

[dhwilkin]

I do believe jude would be a good person to ask about this...

 

[jude]

....except for this one.

I was curious about this too. I went to one of those Mars Music stores with Jack a little while ago, and we were looking at those pro audio power conditioners.

If you go the Mars web site and search for "power conditioners" you'll see they even have a balanced power unit by Furman. It costs $1245.99, so it ain't cheap. I'll look into this unit more, but, for this kind of money, I'd at least consider stepping up to an Equi=Tech, or maybe even a less expensive B-P-T model.

The concept of balanced power is something that interests me greatly, so I'll continue to look into the various solutions.

I know I didn't answer questions at all here, so if anyone can contribute to the thread -- letting us know of the advantages and disadvantages of a pro audio type of power conditioner for use by an audiophile -- we'd very much appreciate it.

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

jude said... ....except for this one.

Yet another illusion gone the way of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy...

Seriously though, I thought you had something like it. What was that Brick Wall thing, then?

 

[jude]

The Brick Wall is a power conditioner, yes. But it's not a pro audio type. Its primary purpose is insane surge protection. But it also has isolated outlets and EMI/RFI filtering. It has lowered the noise floor of my rig, and has allowed me to remove the ferrite cords from all my power cords (that I was using to isolate my rig from sump pump, refrigerator and air conditioning line noise).

It is not, however, a voltage regulation type of power conditioner. That is, it is not designed to provide a constant 120V feed, and won't make up for voltage drops or anything like that. That's why I want an Equ=Tech unit to put behind it.

 

[dhwilkin]

Ah, I see now. I almost got it right, I just didn't realize the Brick Wall wasn't a professional unit, my mistake.

 

[morphsci]

I use several Tripp-Lite conditioners as described below from a previous thread

Quote:

I use a graded system throughout the house. First, I have a whole house surge suppressor/filter that works before the main breaker box. Next each of the computers has a UPS/conditioner that protects each device and also limits the amount of EMI hash they can inject into the house mains. Each televison is on a tripplite conditioner/suppressor or a UPS/conditioner depending on the associated devices such as SAT receivers and VCR's. Again, this helps limit the EMI flow into the mains. Source components for music are pluged into an Adcom Ace-515. The 515 is plugged into a Tripplite line conditioner. Each circuit on the Tripp-Lite is isolated from the others so the home theater components are plugged directly into the Tripp-Lite. Since the HT processor connects through the preamp via a processor loop I can maintain a clean signal and power path when I only want to listen to music. The power amps are plugged into a separate ACE-515 which is also plugged into a seperate Tripp-Lite power conditioner. Additional HT components are plugged directly into this conditioner also. I like the 515's since they can be interconnected to have auto turn-on and delayed turn-on of components with a single switch. Since my power amps and preamp do not have remote turn-on capability, this can be very nice...

 

[holderlin]

Quote:

Originally posted by jude The Brick Wall is a power conditioner, yes. [snipped] It is not, however, a voltage regulation type of power conditioner. That is, it is not designed to provide a constant 120V feed, and won't make up for voltage drops or anything like that. That's why I want an Equ=Tech unit to put behind it.

Jude,

First, sorry for the erroneous post. I had problems posting my response.

Furman also makes a cheaper regulator: AR-1215. They say it protects from line voltage irregularities and RFI. Converts any voltage from 89 to 139 to 120V (+/-3) using an 11-tap toroidal autoformers. Has an input voltmeter and 9 outlets.

Three questions:
1) what is the difference between EMI and RFI?
2) We are going to upgrade to 200 amp service this fall. We're really straining our service at this point. How much problem is there with variable voltage output from household service? Even if there are fluctuations of voltage, what are the audible benefits of a steady stream?
3) What does MOV mean (I notice some power conditioners say they have MOV spike suppression and others consider it a badge of honor not to have MOV. I like SurgeX's description of it as a "sacrificial component" -- it recognizes the sacred roots of the audio priest's transcendental quest.)

 

[thomas]

EMI is Electromagnetic intrtference, basically magnetic fields that are formed by current flowing through conductors. this can induce noise into the signal. Usually caused by electronic/electrical componants close to the signal.

RF interferience are radio waves, which can be picked up when wires act like an antenna, this noise will then be radiated through the signal. Longer range than EMI.

But powerlines travel so far and through so many noisy areas that lots of things can introduce both type of noise into the poweline.

2) Keep in mind that your electronics are all powered by DC, not the AC line voltage. Good electronics should definately have good power supplies that do filter out all the noise from the power rails, and keep the votage perfectly stable.

But if your electronics don't have very good power supplies, then fluctuations in line voltage and noise will be sent into the audio componats, adding lots of distortion.

So a voltage stability and noise levels will be very audiable in electronics with poor power supplies, and inaudiable if you have a good power supply.

3) MOV means metal oxide varistor, used to protect your componants from surges, usually cuased by lightning.

 

[dngl]

I was flipping through Musician's Friend and saw a Furman power conditioner for $50... the cheapest power conditioner on the market... is it any good? I'd like power conditioning, and cheaply at that

 

[roll-man]

I live in a house built in 1906 and there is still quite a bit of cotton jacketed wire running around my walls. I bought a Rotel RLC 900 line conditioner for $99 and I'll tell you, it made a noticeable diference. Check it out here

 

[nately]

Thread, I command you to rise from the dead. There.

So I was considering getting something for my main system (which I use for both 2-channel and AV). There's definitely some sort of interference going on, especially with DVD picture quality, and also maybe TV and FM reception. I'm hoping line conditioning may help, but I'm trying to keep the cost low (<$100).

So, does anyone have any experience with any pro audio equipment of this nature? Furman, ART, anything? I thought it might be a way to get something decent at a lower price.

 

[Orpheus]

my power for the studio travels from wall > furman ar-1220 (voltage regulator) > furman it-1220 (power transformer) > furman pl-plus (line conditioner)

so, 3 furman products before any power reaches my equipment.

as for benefits, there isn't that big of a difference. furman claims that the balancing transformer can drop the noise floor by about 15db... but i didn't notice much of a difference, even with a lot of my equipment on at the same time. the voltage regulator is good to have as insurance, but also, it doesn't do much for sound.

so, some people swear by these things.... to me, they are more of an isurance policy... to make sure nothing here gets fried. perhaps they make a difference..... but i sure ain't gonna dig around behind my racks to test. you can ask the people that went to my meet in the 2nd.... it's near impossible to get at the cables in back.

however, furman isn't the best out there... other pro audio companies like surgex make higher-end stuff. though, in practice, even million-dollar big-time studios use Furman power products exclusively. in general, pro audio products are better deals than audiophile stuff. less ********. more product.

one thing for sure..... if lightning hits this house, my studio might be the only thing left standing!

 

[88Sound]

I purchased a Furman AR-1215 years ago for pro use when playing midi-keyboards live. Since I only played in the best venues I would occaisionally be forced to plug my keyboards into the same outlets occupied by the beer refrigerators.....the compressors go on.....voltage drops.....my keyboards make no sound until they recycle. This is very bad if you happen to be in the middle of a song.

The Furman AR-1215 solved this problem completely. The voltage has to go below 101V (probably lower but that's the last LED) before the unit cannot bring it up to 120V. In addition it has LED's that indicate what voltage it is being fed from the wall, whether you have an extremely high or low voltage, and if the unit can regulate the power it's seeing.

When I got into this crazy hobby I decided to use the AR-1215 for my headphone setup. This initially seemed to work great, it protected my equipment not only from spikes but fed it a consistent regulated 120 Volts and I could hear no detriment to the sound.

As my equipment got better my opinion of the AR-1215 for audiophile use changed. Specifically I added Virtual Dynamics Nite power cables to my source (DV47A) and amp (RKV MKII). The Nite cables provided a much blacker background than I had ever heard from this equipment and I could now hear this low level noise. As I searched for the source of this noise It turned out to be the AR-1215. I could hear a vibration emminating from the Furman if I put my ear up to it and sometimes it was so loud I could hear it from a couple feet away in a quiet room. This noise that I could hear externally was being transmitted to the devices it was powering.

After eliminating the AR-1215 I now had a very black quiet background. I could now hear the limitations of my source (DV47A), it has since been replaced with a DV8400.

Even though I'm experiencing the best sound I've ever heard from headphones, the downside is I have zero surge protection or voltage regulation. I understand that this can be remedied in an audiophile fashion for a price. Since I am unwilling to pay the price at this time I guess I just have to ask myself one question.....do I feel lucky?

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by 88Sound Even though I'm experiencing the best sound I've ever heard from headphones, the downside is I have zero surge protection or voltage regulation. I understand that this can be remedied in an audiophile fashion for a price. Since I am unwilling to pay the price at this time I guess I just have to ask myself one question.....do I feel lucky?

diycable.com has a kit for a surge suppressor circuit designed by Jon Risch that works well ($125). You'll need to paint the case, if wanted, and do some soldering. You can buy the parts at electronics suppliers and put it in a case of your own choosing for less.