Predator vs. Pico?

[Dash]

I never recall there being such a clear line in the sand regarding different builders as what the Pico and Predator has produced. I was always under the opinion that both Headamp and RSA where well respected and it was a matter of different sound flavors that delineated the two. The Pico seems to be billed as the second coming and the Predator as a sub-standard substitute. I do not have golden ears but I enjoy my Predator. It mates well with the W1000s. I enjoy the Predator as much as my MAD Ear/MusicHall 25.2 combo. I am not going to get into burn in times with all the reviews, but my adjustment period with the Predator has proven substantial. I would love to hear the Pico at some point but I am satisfied with the Predator and have always been treated with respect in my transactions with RSA.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's an opinion that not everyone agrees with.

RIGHT -- just as "Mikhail's &/or Justin's amps are the best, period" may not inspire universal agreement.

I love some of their creations and like & respect both guys alot, but I'm not a fanboy of any manufacturer. Period.

I simply listen as objectively as I can manage to each product (that I can manage to get my hands on) for its own successes and flaws, and express what my particular mind/ear system hears and prefers -- when I feel I have something possibly worth posting.

Hope to get loan of Pico sometime not too far in the future. Seems very promising.

 

[Manny Calavera]

Can those who have heard both comment on which of the two sounds 'warmer'

Thanks to Dash for his comments.

My lovely wife and I who have more experience with desktop/home amps in the 500 to 1500+ USD range are very split on what to get right now.

I do feel though,that there are two crowds forming on this site,and that a line has been draw in the sand per se.Some seem to be getting right nasty about it all,no matter their post count,large or small.


Given the much better battery life,color options,his overall greater amount of experience,and LIFE TIME WARRANTY of Rays dac/amp it seems a complete no brainer to me.This coming from someone who uses a older NAD amp and CDP + a pair of old,but huge Tannoy Monitor Gold Lancasters for home use.

It really makes one think when someone is willing to stand by thier product with a warranty like that.

If I have learned anything about this site,and its users is that there are an army of elitists,often itching for a 'polite' argument.Of course there are also a army of genuinely down to earth folks who want to help,ulterior motives,and desire to push their own personal gear aside.

 

[grawk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee /img/forum/go_quote.gif RIGHT -- just as "Mikhail's &/or Justin's amps are the best, period" may not inspire universal agreement.

If anyone was to make that blanket statement, it'd get challenged too.

 

[pretzelb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash /img/forum/go_quote.gif I never recall there being such a clear line in the sand regarding different builders as what the Pico and Predator has produced. I was always under the opinion that both Headamp and RSA where well respected and it was a matter of different sound flavors that delineated the two.

I don't frequent here much but this time last year I had the itch to buy new equipment and at that time RSA was the gold standard on the boards. It's very shocking to hear some of the overly critical posts now.

I certainly understand the "I prefer X over Y" posts but the ones that trash the other are just shocking.

 

[jamato8]

I agree. It is sad to bash or trash. I like many amps and most have a quality I enjoy. Some I like more than others but I feel no need to cast remarks that do little to expand and enhance our knowledge of what we perceive in the sound. I think the level at which many portable amps have scaled is exciting and that we can have choices that may suit one person more than another is also an added plus.

 

[Manny Calavera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I would like it if Ray had a burn-in rack for these big caps. I've heard all my amps change, but the majority of the changes were between 75-200 hours, with the D1 and Penguin Royal changing up to 350-400 hours. I've read about some people needing 800 hours to burn-in their RSA amps, but my Tomahawk sounds the same at 850 hours as it did at 700 hours. The Predator however IS still changing for me, and most recently the change has been a big boost in the bass with an additional layer of transparency. I've spent the better part of the last month burning-in my predator - I listen to it for couple of hours, and leave it running to check on it the next day. I listened to it for the first time on 12/27/07, and I listened for about 3-5 hours a day for the next 4-5 days, before running it full time 24/7 around the 3rd of Jan. It was around the 8th or 9th that I wrote Jamato8 about my concerns about the sound. I had maybe 150 hours on it by then. I said: His response: So, since that time I've been keeping a log, and I run the amp continuously, with a couple of 1-2 hours breaks here and there. Each date that I noted below was a day that I listened next - I noted either the time I started to listen, or was done listening. I keep this log in a text file on my computer, which I have it connected to the USB running almost all the time. Most of my comments about what I have heard did not go into the time log, but have gone into Jamato's Predator review thread if it was significant. 1/11/08 10pm 211 hours 1/15/08 10pm 305 hours 1/16/08 10PM 329 hours 1/17/08 10AM 341 hours 1/18/08 10PM 377 hours 1/19/08 10PM 401 hours 1/20/08 10AM 413 hours 1/20/08 10PM 425 hours 1/21/08 4PM 443 hours 1/22/08 12n 463 hours 1/22/08 10pm 473 hours 1/23/08 10AM 485 hours 1.23.08 10PM 497 hours 1/24/08 10pm 521 hours 1/26/08 10PM 569 hours 1/27/08 9PM 591 hours 1/28/08 12mn 618 hours 1/30/08 12mn 666 hours 1/31/08 11am 677 hours 2/1/08 11pm 713 hours 2/2/08 11am 725 hours 2/2/08 8pm 734 hours At this point the Predator has surpassed all my other portable amps. But, it didn't get there until the past 100 hours or so, which means I'll probably keep this burning-in till past 1,000 hours (11-12 more days). But, the DAC still isn't quite up to the level of my modded iBasso D1 DAC, which I believe also internally upconverts to 24/96. I still want a PICO for the 24/96 DAC, but I just can't spring for one yet. But, I am close. The refund from my second dead P2 is due soon, and with the $100 from selling my PIMETA, all I need to do is sell the Tomahawk and I have enough for a PICO with DAC. I feel the Meier Headsix is too good with small iPods to sell. And, I sometimes like the extra features on my Lyrix (DAC, bass boost, crossfeed, charging, gain) and SuperMacro 3v3 (impedance, gain, bass boost, crossfeed, auto-timer, charging) too much to sell either of them yet. The SM3v3 actually sounds pretty good with the AD797's that I just put in it, and it was updated by Xin right before Thanksgiving. The big question is, since I already have the Predator with DAC as well as iBasso D1 and Lyrix with DAC, should I put that money towards the first half of a Benchmark DAC1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey! don't drag Monica into this. You do not want to reap her wrath! :^) Frankly I have had the Monica long enough as have a few friends I turned onto here, weird, anyway, and I have compared her to my home Ultimate Dac that I don't care what they write. I know what I hear and Monica takes no prisoners. Great liquidity, bass punch, dynamics in all frequency spectrums, transparency and width and depth, all of course If the music is recorded well. Nope, don't care, she sounds good but I have worked on her a bit as she is not stock, no sir, Monica is super charged. On the Predator, Ray states that if you don't want to wait for the burn-in then don't buy one. That seems simple to me. But in the wait you will be rewarded, at least in my opinion and that of some others. Hey, it's all good. Great fun, isn't it. What advances these last couple of years have made. On caps, there is a manufacture of a new teflon cap that burns their caps in because it takes so long for them to form. I have read of over 1000 hours and more.

Intersting [size=xx-small]micro[/size] reviews.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. It is sad to bash or trash. I like many amps and most have a quality I enjoy. Some I like more than others but I feel no need to cast remarks that do little to expand and enhance our knowledge of what we perceive in the sound. I think the level at which many portable amps have scaled is exciting and that we can have choices that may suit one person more than another is also an added plus.

Well said jamato8.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Calavera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can those who have heard both comment on which of the two sounds 'warmer'.....

I have a Predator on loan, with more than 1000 hours on it. I only heard Justin's Pico very, very briefly at the last NYC meet (so I can't really comment it 'til I've heard it properly) -- but based on that I'd say the Predator has a distinct warmth by comparison. I hope to at least have a more extended listen to the Pico at the upcoming NYC meet, and hopefully an at-home loaner (if I get lucky).

At first listen to the Predator, I thought "this sounds very much like my well-played Tomahawk". Now, however, I feel the Predator is a bit cleaner, clearer, more "transparent", has greater impact, more distinct separation/delineation of performers and instruments, and better description of the shape/physical volume/material of instruments.

The DAC seems to have lower-level output than the 2 stand-alone DACs I'm using to compare: Fubar USB and Spitfire Optical (Mac G5 w/Apple Lossless files), both of which seem more detailed and possibly more open. However, as with the Pico, it is great to have a DAC built into this tiny amp (just a whisker bigger than my Tomahawk).

It drives the Senn HD600/Equinox Cable>Zu Pivot 1/4-to-1/8 (silver) cable very nicely, and it's an excellent pairing.

Pico loaner anyone?

 

[The Monkey]

There is an increasing (and unfortunate) misperception around here these days that to critique an amp or state something other than a glowing review does not contribute to the conversation.

Nonsense.

The things people dislike about amps are just as informative as the things they like.

 

[micaela]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Calavera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can those who have heard both comment on which of the two sounds 'warmer'

I spent 10 days with both amps thanks to ASR's loaner program. I found the Pico to be the warmer of the two. I did not think the Predator was cold or overly analytical sounding, and if I had not been directly comparing the two I might not have heard this so clearly- but when comparing the two directly I definitely found the Pico to be warmer.

 

[Dash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is an increasing (and unfortunate) misperception around here these days that to critique an amp or state something other than a glowing review does not contribute to the conversation. Nonsense. The things people dislike about amps are just as informative as the things they like.

I think that the keys here are informative and constructive.

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is an increasing (and unfortunate) misperception around here these days that to critique an amp or state something other than a glowing review does not contribute to the conversation. Nonsense. The things people dislike about amps are just as informative as the things they like.

There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion good or bad. It is how it is done, that is all. Have some class about it. There is no reason to tear down this amp or that amp in such a way that it adds little value to an understanding of what is going on. If I find an amp too warm sounding it may be great for someone else and if I just state the bass was bad, that doesn't tell them anything. If I say the bass was well defined but for me there was too much another person that loves bass might say, "ah, I see, but that is what I like". Sparkly highs to one person might be bright to another but to put it into perspective without remarks that tear down is of value. Also the sound can change quite a bit according to the headphones being used. So if it was great with someone's HD650's it sure might not be with my Ultrasone 750's. But I wouldn't say just because I didn't enjoy the sound that it was a bad amp but defining what I am saying and in what context can be of value. And value to what we are saying, I hope, is what is being strived for.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is an increasing (and unfortunate) misperception around here these days that to critique an amp or state something other than a glowing review does not contribute to the conversation. Nonsense. The things people dislike about amps are just as informative as the things they like.

Agree! people need to give real opinions about their own impressions. I need to know and want to know how the reviewer rank each amp and whether he likes one over the other. If you love Italian food and want to know if a particular Italian restaurant is good, wouldn't you rather ask your friend who also loves Italian food? Wouldn't you rather get the opinion from someone with whom you identify and agree? Now, if all the reviews end with "I like them both and I think someone will prefer one and some other will prefer the alternative", then the purpose and the value of a peer review is lost. How do I know I will like the amp? How do I know we have similar taste? How do I trust your opinion?

Who can I trust when it comes time to buy an amp I have never heard of and will never have the opportunity to 'test drive'? The reviewer with whom I agree on his/her preference of gears is obviously the 'go to' person for me in such a situation. If no one is willing to give their honest opinion about the amps they heard; then the purpose behind the 'user opinion' is lost and the benefit of these reviews is questioned.

I will begin by ranking the RSA amps I have heard:

<I like the following>:
B52 = excellent/world class;
Raptor = very very good; and
HR-2 = pretty good for the price.

<I don't like the following because they simply don't sound good>:
Apache - It's not that I don't like it, I think its overprice for sound quality;
Predator;
Tomahawk; and
SR71.

I will further point out that I don't like Gilmore Lite because it sounds bad to me; notwithstanding my favorable impressions of other Gilmore designs, and GS1 which I have never heard.

If you agree with me, great; then we both like Italian food and you can probably trust me the next time I review something and proclaim it to be great. If you don't agree, great; now you know what gears to avoid in the future.

P.S. I do have opinions about other amps that are getting or was getting great reviews; but in the interest of staying on topic maybe in another thread.

 

[frozenice]

A dog knows the difference between being stepped on and being kicked and in my opinion Ray has been kicked pretty hard about The Predator.

 

[jlingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had a chance to use Ultrasone Edition 9 with predator and AE2 today and yes it seems like Predator is lacking of juice driving UE9 compared to AE2. Predator seems lacking of body with UE9.

I was listening to UE9 using a Predator DAC today, all I can say is WOW! I take back the word thin and lacking of body

Now, I prefer Predator DAC -> UE9 than iMOD(Vcap) LISA III, UE9 combination.
Predator DAC -> UE9 sounds very expansive and the bass goes very deep, very dynamic, huge soundstage. Please keep in mind it's only with Ultrasone Edition 9. This may not apply with other headphones.

I would have to say OMG OMG OMG!! I'm totally hooked with predator DAC and UE9. Oh by the way,
NOW I WISH SOMEONE CAME OUT WITH A PLAYER WITH USB OUT to feed the predator or pico.